Ranking the top 100 professional athletes of the 21st century-

lousubcap

Let the debate begin-
https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/40446224/top-100-athletes-21st-century

No comment here.  Just serving up a Friday eve tune-up.  

Foghorn

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

JohnInCarolina

Foghorn said:

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

Man, table tennis players really got the shaft here.

dbCooper

My problem is the absence of speed records (land, water, and air) in both compilations.  Particularly on water.   Ken Warby and his predecessors missing from the 20th century list shows it is incomplete.

My weighting of athletes is biased toward individual sports with probabilities of injury/death.  I'm not being gruesome, more a point of errors having personal consequences needs to be factored in before being labeled exceptional.

*same reasoning for no pool/billiards/snooker hustlers being included.  🙂

Botch

That this list includes proven cheaters like Barry Bonds and Tom Brady makes the whole thing moot, for me.  
I won't pick a side about whether golfers or race car drivers should be included, but I do think MotoGP riders should be, and Valentino Rossi isn't on the list; so, for me, the list is even moot-er.  

Gulfcoastguy

Some of these would have been higher if they had better other players on their teams. Or the reverse situation could apply. That’s for the team sports of course. The single person sports stand on their own,

ColbyLang

Foghorn said:

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

Yes to both. Everyone thinks golf and or driving ain’t sport. Average Joe can’t do either let alone professionally week in and week out. John Daly is the exception to the rule

Foghorn

ColbyLang said:

Foghorn said:

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

Yes to both. Everyone thinks golf and or driving ain’t sport. Average Joe can’t do either let alone professionally week in and week out. John Daly is the exception to the rule

@ColbyLang, the same is true for darts, cornhole, bridge, chess, hot dog eating, and other things that require a lot of skill.  Are they also athletes?  Should Joey Chestnut be on the list?

Phil Mickelson winning the PGA Championship tournament at age 51 is a good example of how the "athleticism" required for golf maybe isn't the same as in basketball, track, etc...

ColbyLang

Foghorn said:

ColbyLang said:

Foghorn said:

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

Yes to both. Everyone thinks golf and or driving ain’t sport. Average Joe can’t do either let alone professionally week in and week out. John Daly is the exception to the rule

@ColbyLang, the same is true for darts, cornhole, bridge, chess, hot dog eating, and other things that require a lot of skill.  Are they also athletes?  Should Joey Chestnut be on the list?

Phil Mickelson winning the PGA Championship tournament at age 51 is a good example of how the "athleticism" required for golf maybe isn't the same as in basketball, track, etc...

Keep in mind, the “athleticism” you mention in basketball, track, etc…is often enhanced by PED’s and the likes. Very few of those athletes are natural. 

Foghorn

ColbyLang said:

Foghorn said:

ColbyLang said:

Foghorn said:

Great idea for a thread.  I looked over some of it yesterday.  

First discussion point - do golfers and race car drivers belong on the list?

Yes to both. Everyone thinks golf and or driving ain’t sport. Average Joe can’t do either let alone professionally week in and week out. John Daly is the exception to the rule

@ColbyLang, the same is true for darts, cornhole, bridge, chess, hot dog eating, and other things that require a lot of skill.  Are they also athletes?  Should Joey Chestnut be on the list?

Phil Mickelson winning the PGA Championship tournament at age 51 is a good example of how the "athleticism" required for golf maybe isn't the same as in basketball, track, etc...

Keep in mind, the “athleticism” you mention in basketball, track, etc…is often enhanced by PED’s and the likes. Very few of those athletes are natural. 

I hear you and share your concern - just as I share the concern about known cheaters that was raised earlier.  With that said, there is no amount of PEDs that would have had my jumping as high as Michael Jordan or running as fast at Usain Bolt.   And who is to say that most golfers and race car drivers aren't using PEDs?  I read an article a while back about how most of the top violinists in the world use them to be able to move the bow fast enough for the toughest musical passages.

JohnInCarolina

I think it is entirely possible to hold the view that one can be an elite competitor without being an elite athlete.

I wouldn't view pro golfers or F1 drivers as necessarily being elite athletes.  By the same token, it seems to me that a good case can be made that some of them are or have been in that category.  

ColbyLang

And Barry Bonds should have an asterisk by his name. Notice McGuire and Sosa don’t make it. Also more tennis players than NFL guys

Legume

Was anything proven with Bonds?  I'm not arguing the case he didn't use PEDs, I just recall the whole thing was thrown out, so no convictions.

I also think he'd make the list just for his time playing in Pittsburg.

Legume

I also don't think he ever failed a test.

ColbyLang

Legume said:

Was anything proven with Bonds?  I'm not arguing the case he didn't use PEDs, I just recall the whole thing was thrown out, so no convictions.

I also think he'd make the list just for his time playing in Pittsburg.

Bonds with the Pirates and Bonds with the Giants weren’t the same guy.  SF Barry was double the size with a block head typical of “use”. 

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

Legume said:

Was anything proven with Bonds?  I'm not arguing the case he didn't use PEDs, I just recall the whole thing was thrown out, so no convictions.

I also think he'd make the list just for his time playing in Pittsburg.

Bonds with the Pirates and Bonds with the Giants weren’t the same guy.  SF Barry was double the size with a block head typical of “use”. 

That does sound like proof.

ColbyLang

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

Legume said:

Was anything proven with Bonds?  I'm not arguing the case he didn't use PEDs, I just recall the whole thing was thrown out, so no convictions.

I also think he'd make the list just for his time playing in Pittsburg.

Bonds with the Pirates and Bonds with the Giants weren’t the same guy.  SF Barry was double the size with a block head typical of “use”. 

That does sound like proof.

Maybe have a PhD class do a comparative analysis on it. 

lousubcap

As above, show me an exercise regimen that makes your head get bigger...

JohnInCarolina

ColbyLang said:

JohnInCarolina said:

ColbyLang said:

Legume said:

Was anything proven with Bonds?  I'm not arguing the case he didn't use PEDs, I just recall the whole thing was thrown out, so no convictions.

I also think he'd make the list just for his time playing in Pittsburg.

Bonds with the Pirates and Bonds with the Giants weren’t the same guy.  SF Barry was double the size with a block head typical of “use”. 

That does sound like proof.

Maybe have a PhD class do a comparative analysis on it. 

Haha.  I am just giving you the business man.  

I’m quite certain Bonds was juicing, as were so many others in that era.  But whether or not he ever tested positive is a different question.

Regardless, his legacy is stained.  

Ike

In a broad definition of athlete, would a poster on a message board be considered an athlete?

athlete

noun

ath·​lete ˈath-ˌlēt  nonstandard

 ˈa-thə-ˌlēt 

1

: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina

2

: an animal (such as a horse or a dog) that competes in races or other sporting events or has qualities (such as stamina and agility) suggestive of a human athleteHospice working dogs were wiry, muscular, agile, yellowish-tan or brown athletes with unexaggerated heads

Botch

Ike said:

In a broad definition of athlete, would a poster on a message board be considered an athlete?

athlete

noun

Hospice working dogs were wiry, muscular, agile, yellowish-tan or brown athletes with unexaggerated heads