Umami, glutamates, nucleotides, Dan, Kenji, and my End-of-life secret

Botch

Over a decade ago (maybe two) I read a Cook's Illustrated article about umami, the fifth taste.  What really caught my eye was the TWO things that contributed to Umami: Glutamates, but also Nucleotides.  AND, if they were both present in a dish, they multiplied their effect up to twenty times.  They did a bunch of testing and arrived at a general ratio of 1 tsp of porcini mushroom powder, and a tsp of fish sauce, which supplied the right amount of both and just shot into the stratosphere the umami of any soup, sauce, chili, casserole, etc that you could make (this happens naturally, in delicious things like cheeseburgers and Japanese Dashi).  
I tried it, on several dishes.  And it became my go-to.  Every dish I made with this, made my mouth water even on the last spoonful.  I tried to find that article years later, and couldn't (it must've been a sidebar or something).  I did see this video a couple years ago, but a Search didn't see it on this site.  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8BXYIZ_7sE
 
Dan/Kenji's comparison taste-off was more a comparison of MSG vs salt, not Gluts vs. Nucs; but it did remind me of my "secret ingredient".  I'm sure I kept it quiet, as I'm selfish and had grandeur images of me winning chili and barbeque contests nationwide, with young nubile things piling up at my feet, asking me to sign my Time cover, as I brought home the Gold.  But, it hurts my knees to stand up on concrete that long, so I decided instead to spread my secret nugget of brilliance with my Egg forum friends.  Give it a try, a tsp of glutamates and a tsp of nucleotides (or their real food equivalents, the video has a very useful chart), and see if I'm right. Enjoy.  

Ozzie_Isaac

@Botch do we need to do a wellness check?  This is like end of life planning.

Langner91

@Botch, that was very interesting!  Any particular brand of porcini powder you prefer?

caliking

Thanks for the tip. I occasionally add fish sauce to Indian dishes, and   will try the porcini powder now. 

Ozzie_Isaac

I have never used porchini powder, I do use fish sauce and msg.  I also use oyster sauce if I want some funk too.

Botch

Langner91 said:

@Botch, that was very interesting!  Any particular brand of porcini powder you prefer?

I bought a 1-lb can from Amazoid by "Asiago Foods", and still have 2/3rds of it left.  I didn't see it just now, at least in the first three pages; I'm sure they're all about the same thing (I did see a container of porcini-infused duck fat, tossed that into my cart!).  I was also intrigued by the large container of dried assorted mushrooms from Costco, that would be nice to have around.  

JohnInCarolina

I wonder if Mikee will eventually share his pizza dough recipe…

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnInCarolina said:

I wonder if Mikee will eventually share his pizza dough recipe…

Nope.  He even said he wouldn't share it with his own kids.  That is going to his grave and the world will be poorer for it.  I don't think anyone besides him has even tasted it.  I imagine it is like Papa Murphy's.

Legume

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

johnmitchell

Legume said:

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

We buy Marmite by the case load. Marmite on toast is the bomb!!

HeavyG

Legume said:

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

Marmite vs Vegemite - FIGHT!

Legume

johnmitchell said:

Legume said:

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

We buy Marmite by the case load. Marmite on toast is the bomb!!

what else do you use it for, do you cook with it?  use it as a condiment with other things?

johnmitchell

HeavyG said:

Legume said:

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

Marmite vs Vegemite - FIGHT!

I have an Aussie buddy and we goad each other all the time😂😂Marmite for the win!!!

johnmitchell

Legume said:

johnmitchell said:

Legume said:

Have you tried Marmite @Botch ?

We buy Marmite by the case load. Marmite on toast is the bomb!!

what else do you use it for, do you cook with it?  use it as a condiment with other things?

For us it’s just a condiment 

Langner91

Botch said:

Langner91 said:

@Botch, that was very interesting!  Any particular brand of porcini powder you prefer?

I bought a 1-lb can from Amazoid by "Asiago Foods", and still have 2/3rds of it left.  I didn't see it just now, at least in the first three pages; I'm sure they're all about the same thing (I did see a container of porcini-infused duck fat, tossed that into my cart!).  I was also intrigued by the large container of dried assorted mushrooms from Costco, that would be nice to have around.  

Thanks, man.  I have been playing with these concepts for a while now. Thanks for reminding me to think about this before preparing old favorites!

I made a green bean casserole some time ago and added soy sauce.  It is like a different dish!  For the previous 30 years, it was only ever made with "cream of anything except mushroom" soup and no soy sauce.  Now that I am cooking for myself, I get to actually experiment!

Ozzie_Isaac

Langner91 said:

Botch said:

Langner91 said:

@Botch, that was very interesting!  Any particular brand of porcini powder you prefer?

I bought a 1-lb can from Amazoid by "Asiago Foods", and still have 2/3rds of it left.  I didn't see it just now, at least in the first three pages; I'm sure they're all about the same thing (I did see a container of porcini-infused duck fat, tossed that into my cart!).  I was also intrigued by the large container of dried assorted mushrooms from Costco, that would be nice to have around.  

Thanks, man.  I have been playing with these concepts for a while now. Thanks for reminding me to think about this before preparing old favorites!

I made a green bean casserole some time ago and added soy sauce.  It is like a different dish!  For the previous 30 years, it was only ever made with "cream of anything except mushroom" soup and no soy sauce.  Now that I am cooking for myself, I get to actually experiment!

Green been casserole is made with ONLY cream of mushroom soup and fried onions on top.  What you have been making for 30 years is most certainly not green bean casserole.  Sorry.

Botch

I finally found (and converted) the .png file that I'd printed out and is inside a kitchen cupboard door, helps to figure out what to add for condiments without going to fish sauce/porcini (NTTAWWT):
 

Langner91

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Langner91 said:

Botch said:

Langner91 said:

@Botch, that was very interesting!  Any particular brand of porcini powder you prefer?

I bought a 1-lb can from Amazoid by "Asiago Foods", and still have 2/3rds of it left.  I didn't see it just now, at least in the first three pages; I'm sure they're all about the same thing (I did see a container of porcini-infused duck fat, tossed that into my cart!).  I was also intrigued by the large container of dried assorted mushrooms from Costco, that would be nice to have around.  

Thanks, man.  I have been playing with these concepts for a while now. Thanks for reminding me to think about this before preparing old favorites!

I made a green bean casserole some time ago and added soy sauce.  It is like a different dish!  For the previous 30 years, it was only ever made with "cream of anything except mushroom" soup and no soy sauce.  Now that I am cooking for myself, I get to actually experiment!

Green been casserole is made with ONLY cream of mushroom soup and fried onions on top.  What you have been making for 30 years is most certainly not green bean casserole.  Sorry.

Agreed, divorce is expensive for a reason.

NDG

nice post !!

lkapigian

NDG said:

nice post !!

Agreed, great info, I have used anchovies for years ( soak in milk to desalinate ) people who "hate them" never know 

MaskedMarvel

Botch said:

I finally found (and converted) the .png file that I'd printed out and is inside a kitchen cupboard door, helps to figure out what to add for condiments without going to fish sauce/porcini (NTTAWWT):
 

Can’t I just make a grinder with Kombu and Bonito flakes and keep it next to the stove? 

MaskedMarvel

MaskedMarvel said:

Botch said:

I finally found (and converted) the .png file that I'd printed out and is inside a kitchen cupboard door, helps to figure out what to add for condiments without going to fish sauce/porcini (NTTAWWT):
 

Can’t I just make a grinder with Kombu and Bonito flakes and keep it next to the stove? 

What do I do next?

Mattman3969

@Botch - just wanted to say thanks for the porcini powder mention.  My wife is on a low sodium diet due to vertigo issues and I struggle at times to get the taste I want with certain dishes sans the salt.   I got some porcini powder about a week ago and it has helped immensely.  Thank You Sir!!

Botch

Mattman3969 said:

@Botch - just wanted to say thanks for the porcini powder mention.  My wife is on a low sodium diet due to vertigo issues and I struggle at times to get the taste I want with certain dishes sans the salt.   I got some porcini powder about a week ago and it has helped immensely.  Thank You Sir!!

Good to hear!  

BlueRidgeSmokers

Botch said:

I finally found (and converted) the .png file that I'd printed out and is inside a kitchen cupboard door, helps to figure out what to add for condiments without going to fish sauce/porcini (NTTAWWT):
 

Excellent chart, thank you. FWIW I've always regarded Marmite much more highly than Vegemite, no surprise here.

Also, no surprise why so many foods contain "yeast-extract".