Yeah or Neigh, MLB bans the shift

Ozzie_Isaac

So Rob "worst commish ever" Manfred has decided to implement 15/20 second pitch clock and bans the shift.

I am torn, on the surface I always thought if an MLB cailber player could just learn to play small ball and poke it in the huge hole on the 3rd base side, the shift would naturally go away.  However, they haven't learned to do that with regularity.  Matt Carpenter tried with limited success.

Also, what does that do for stats now?  Carp as an example, would have been much more successful in his twilight years without the shift.  So many base hits have been robbed by the shift.

I vote nay.

JohnInCarolina

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Ozzie_Isaac

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

That is how I feel.  I am a free market, less regulation baseball fan.  Stick with the rules that have worked for 146 years.

However, I have liked the 3 batter min for pitchers.  I miss the era of complete games, and big angry pitchers.

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Still seething over the designated hitter I bet.

dbCooper

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Still seething over the designated hitter I bet.

Don't know about @JohnInCarolina, but I've always hated the DH.  Clearly it violates the very first rule of baseball...

1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with

these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Edit to answer @Ozzie_Isaac question: Nay

dmchicago

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

I also hate change in baseball. But I hate the shift more.

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Still seething over the designated hitter I bet.

Yep, hated that change ever since I was (googles DH history) ... 1 year old.  

JohnInCarolina

dmchicago said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

I also hate change in baseball. But I hate the shift more.

But why?   It's just the outfield playing good defense.  I mean if you don't like defense then you're kind of missing a key aspect of baseball.

Getting a hit in MLB is still one of the hardest things to do in all of sports.  I guess I prefer to appreciate it when it happens rather than change the rules to make it happen more frequently.  

Ozzie_Isaac

dbCooper said:

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Still seething over the designated hitter I bet.

Don't know about @JohnInCarolina, but I've always hated the DH.  Clearly it violates the very first rule of baseball...

1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with

these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Edit to answer @Ozzie_Isaac question: Nay

I also hate the DH rule.  Pirchers should have to bat.  At the very least it keeps them a bit more honest when they throw at a guy.

Also, look how electeic Shoei is.  Putting in a DH takes away that killer benefit.

fishlessman

Shift good. Dh good.....big bases .....,..,

kl8ton

I believe that the fielders should be able to stand where they want.  What's next?  Are they going to paint 8 foot diameter circles where each fielder must stand until contact is made with the ball?  Then we can sit and watch synchronized split screen slow motion replays of fielders "leaving their bubble early" . . . before contact was made.  Send that back to NY for review.  Maybe add a rover while they are at it. . like we had in elementary school softball?  Maybe all softball teams have a rover, I don't know.

JohnInCarolina

Next they get rid of the shortstop and center fielder, and limit pitch speeds to 90 mph.

HeavyG

MLB should bring back some of the old rules that were eliminated waaaay back:
- allow doctored pitches - spitballs, greaseballs, sanded balls, whateva
- allow batters to again tell the pitcher they have to throw a high or low pitch
- allow a fly ball to have one bounce before being caught and still be an out
- pitchers have to release the ball at waist height or lower
- balls that bounce over the outfield fence/wall are home runs

And all players have to have a breakfast of chipped beef and scotch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AIMxn1BhI4

Ozzie_Isaac

@HeavyG I think you are being sarcastic.  I wouldn't say the rules on day 1, but after 50 years or so the rules should be pretty good.

Another rule I hate is Rule 7.13 (Buster Posey Rule).  That rule is terrible, and now after 7 years of being on the books they are changing how the interpret and enforce it?

P.S. Angel Hernandez should have been fired years ago.

JohnInCarolina

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@HeavyG I think you are being an ahole.

FTFY

Acn

Ozzie_Isaac said:

dbCooper said:

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I'm a purist when it comes to baseball, so I hate just about any change.   

Still seething over the designated hitter I bet.

Don't know about @JohnInCarolina, but I've always hated the DH.  Clearly it violates the very first rule of baseball...

1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with

these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Edit to answer @Ozzie_Isaac question: Nay

I also hate the DH rule.  Pirchers should have to bat.  At the very least it keeps them a bit more honest when they throw at a guy.

Also, look how electeic Shoei is.  Putting in a DH takes away that killer benefit.

Right, the DH would seriously impair Ohtani’s benefits…oh wait, the DH exists. 

I can’t believe everyone wants to watch pitchers hit .150 and strike out 50% of the time because every hundred years or so somebody who can pitch and hit at a high level comes along.  Universal DH is the best decision MLB a has made in at least 15 years and it’s probably 20 years too late.

I’m agnostic about banning the shift; it may help some but it also smacks of outlawing a strategy because nobody can develop and/or implement a counter strategy.

I think pitch clocks also make tons of sense, and I wonder if that will push base stealing back as a strategy; if a runner knows the pitcher only has a few seconds left they can start stretching their lead.

lousubcap

I am totally against the shift.  Spend a few minutes reading about Tony Gwynn and the "5.5" hole as a hitter.  These guys should be able to adapt to the player positioning and "hit it where they ain't."
However, the game has devolved to either a home-run or strikeout and all the action to generate runs within the field of play is largely gone.  
I get the pitch clock to move the game along especially with the short attention span/focus in vogue today.  

Legume

Kill the DH, allow the shift - it’s just extreme positioning of fielders, there isn’t any threshold and there is as much risk to it as benefit.  

Teach your pitchers to hit and bunt and teach your batters to hit the ball to the hole.  

fishlessman

Beers should be two bucks including tip

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@HeavyG I think you are being an ahole.

FTFY

A sarcastic ahole to be most accurate.

saluki2007

fishlessman said:

Beers should be two bucks including tip

  Wrigley Field went cashless this year. Everything has to be bought with a card, even the beer guys walking the stadium. 

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@HeavyG I think you are being an ahole.

FTFY

A sarcastic ahole to be most accurate.

I recognize the phenotype, lol

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Im all for banning the “junk shift” with every pitch. 

Helmet adjust
Junk shift
spit
bat tap on home plate
glove pull
dirt kick
Bat wiggle
2nd junk shift

pitcher steps off the mound

repeat. 

Ozzie_Isaac

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Im all for banning the “junk shift” with every pitch. 

Helmet adjust
Junk shift
spit
bat tap on home plate
glove pull
dirt kick
Bat wiggle
2nd junk shift

pitcher steps off the mound

repeat. 

So you are not a fan of Juan Soto I take it.

Also, I agree.  Stand in the box and swing.  I wish they only got dirt to rub on their hands and no batting gloves.  Let alone the "sliding" oven mit half of them wear now.

WeberWho

Ozzie_Isaac said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Im all for banning the “junk shift” with every pitch. 

Helmet adjust
Junk shift
spit
bat tap on home plate
glove pull
dirt kick
Bat wiggle
2nd junk shift

pitcher steps off the mound

repeat. 

So you are not a fan of Juan Soto I take it.

Also, I agree.  Stand in the box and swing.  I wish they only got dirt to rub on their hands and no batting gloves.  Let alone the "sliding" oven mit half of them wear now.

I'm not sure if there was anyone worse than Chuck Knoblauch. The guy stepped out after every pitch to undo, readjust, Velcro back up his batting gloves, adjust his helmet, and get set back in the batters box.

TEXASBGE2018

saluki2007 said:

fishlessman said:

Beers should be two bucks including tip

  Wrigley Field went cashless this year. Everything has to be bought with a card, even the beer guys walking the stadium. 

Same thing tonight at the new Rangers stadium. No cash anywhere.

bbracey21

Neigh on the shift... Play 9 players wherever you want and the offense should hit it where they ain’t…. DH batter over pitcher bc don’t no one want to see a pitcher swing the bat (minus Ohtani). As far as the batter staying in the batters box or pitch count seconds I thought they corrected that last season but doesn’t appear they enforce it… faster play, faster pace, better baseball IMO.

StillH2OEgger

Many of these changes have been tested in the minor leagues, though from the example in St. Paul the pitch clock is really not enforced. I don't like the shifts, but also don't like rewarding those who are unwilling/unable to beat it naturally. My problem with today's baseball is that 40-45 percent of at bats don't result in a ball put into play and that makes for long, boring games. Not to mention the devaluation of defense and base running. Also not a fan of 12 teams making the playoffs, but I am also generally don't embrace change for change's sake.

westernbbq

Who cares? It's FOOTBALL season!

bobroo

Bigger bases? No shift? A play clock? I have always believed baseball as a game of inches and that while there have been modifications to the rules, todays players are playing the same game as Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, or Babe Ruth.

Aluminum bats will be next.

TechsasJim

Weird they would ban the shift.  I don’t mind it, it’s not like they added a defender to make the shift.   But ultimately I’m indifferent.