Britney G. - wonder if she wishes she had a do over?

Ozzie_Isaac

Her situation sucks, but she was avidly anti-American.  I am actually very sad for her and her family.  This is a terrible way to learn how good you actually had something.

Here is one of her statements, she seems to think the rest of the world is like the US.  She gets 9 years to think about it.

"Griner also said she had received neither an explanation of her rights nor access to a lawyer in the initial hours of her detention, and that she had to use a translation app on her phone to communicate"

Battleborn

Well said. While the good ol’ USA has some flaws, there is nowhere I would rather be. 

WildmanWilson

She’s been brainwashed and fed a bunch of lies. Now she will get her eyes opened. 

StillH2OEgger

Ozzie_Isaac said:

she was avidly anti-American.

Because she kneeled for the anthem?

HeavyG

StillH2OEgger said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

she was avidly anti-American.

Because she kneeled for the anthem?

Apparently peacefully questioning/chastising your government is "avidly anti-American" but storming the Capitol to hang  your Veep is truly patriotic.

CP92

That whole "I'm an American I have rights" lasts as long as you're in America. Abroad you find out real quick that **** holds no weight. You quickly realize just how vulnerable you are in a foreign country. 

caliking

StillH2OEgger said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

she was avidly anti-American.

Because she kneeled for the anthem?

Same question. (Disclaimer= I don't follow any sports, or sports celebrity shenanigans. Griner's arrest was the first time I had heard of her. I am aware of the controversy re: kneeling when the national anthem is played).

I think its odd (even disrespectful) that the national anthem is played at domestic sporting events in the US. Is this common practice around the world? Patriotism is the last thing I would think of in the context of professional sports in the US. I get the playing of the national anthem at international sporting events, as the players are representing the country abroad.

Players for the professional leagues are barely loyal to the city they play in. Does the singing of the national anthem before a football game, etc. foster a sense of national pride?

JohnInCarolina

Food for thought on this topic of what constitutes an "acceptable protest" from one of the clearest thinkers on this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xssa4BHuI

His article on Colin Kaepernick is also worth reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/colin-kaepernick/541845/

"When his initial efforts were met with disdain and deemed disrespectful, [Kaepernick] actually consulted a group of veterans to see how he might better pursue a protest. That is the origin of Kaepernick kneeling, and the fact that it too has been met with scoffs points to deeper problem. If young people attempting to board a bus are unacceptable, if gathering on the National Mall is verboten, if preaching nonviolence gets you harassed by your own government and then killed, if a protest founded in consultation with military veterans is offensive, then what specific manner of protest is white America willing to endure?

It’s almost as if the manner of protest isn’t the real problem."

Ozzie_Isaac

HeavyG said:

StillH2OEgger said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

she was avidly anti-American.

Because she kneeled for the anthem?

Apparently peacefully questioning/chastising your government is "avidly anti-American" but storming the Capitol to hang  your Veep is truly patriotic.

I think each and every person who stormed the Capital should be held accountable, including trial and punishment. That was insurrection not patriotism.

Also kneeling, fist raising etc, is not even in the same ballpark (pardon the pun) as the Capitol riots.Kneeling/fist raising is a peaceful protest.  Charging the capital and threatening elected members with death and violence is fundamentally different.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I always wonder if the people who are most agitated (old white men) by black athletes kneeling/protesting a system they believe is unfair, realize that their agitation is the entire point. 

It’s almost like they are an unconscious participant in the process. Your outrage actually proves the point of the protest. 

JohnInCarolina

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I always wonder if the people who are most agitated (old white men) by black athletes kneeling/protesting a system they believe is unfair, realize that their agitation is the entire point. 

It’s almost like they are an unconscious participant in the process. Your outrage actually proves the point of the protest. 

Coates spoke explicitly to this in the video above: if everyone agreed with what the athletes are protesting, the protests themselves wouldn't be necessary.

caliking

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

I always wonder if the people who are most agitated (old white men) by black athletes kneeling/protesting a system they believe is unfair, realize that their agitation is the entire point. 

It’s almost like they are an unconscious participant in the process. Your outrage actually proves the point of the protest. 

I was thinking exactly this. If nobody takes note of any given protest, it loses efficacy. The reaction is what gives it notoriety, credence, and validation. Ignore it, and you neutralize the platform/stage for the protest. 

But, that's a lot of thinking for many folks.  

HeavyG

Ozzie_Isaac said:

HeavyG said:

StillH2OEgger said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

she was avidly anti-American.

Because she kneeled for the anthem?

Apparently peacefully questioning/chastising your government is "avidly anti-American" but storming the Capitol to hang  your Veep is truly patriotic.

I think each and every person who stormed the Capital should be held accountable, including trial and punishment. That was insurrection not patriotism.

Also kneeling, fist raising etc, is not even in the same ballpark (pardon the pun) as the Capitol riots.Kneeling/fist raising is a peaceful protest.  Charging the capital and threatening elected members with death and violence is fundamentally different.

My apologies, I should have phrased that a bit differently. You have always struck me as a rational person (tho your festering Target animus makes me question that just a little bit ) and I didn't mean to lump you together with the "true patriots" (sarcasm implied) that bravely stormed the Capitol that fateful day or those that feel  that those activities were nothing more than a typical tourist excursion thru those chambers.

Ozzie_Isaac

I spent some time discussing the idea of protests during the National Anthem with a friend last night, and thinking about it today.

As best as I can tell, the issue is so devicive  because of miscommunication and misunderstandings.

One side, views the kneeling and fist raising as anti-American because it is occurring during the National Anthem.  They see it as a protest against America, the military, and all the sacrifices to get the country where it is today.

However, I think the protestors are highlighting what they see as injustice.  Bringing attention to the problem in the hopes of resolving a problem.  They are not saying throw the baby out with the bath water, but lets resolve this problem and make the US stronger and better.  (I am/was more in the first group, so understand I am not speaking for this second group, just trying to make sense of it all).

These are emotionally charged responses driven by different life experiences and perspectives.  Both sides have their extremes which makes discussion and solutions even harder to come by.

In the end we all want America stronger, better, and safer for everyone.

If I had a National stage and felt I could make the world better, you best believe I would use it.

Sorry for the long winded response, I guarantee I am still getting things wrong and misinterpreting details, but a post I meant to deliberately stir things up, bothered me probably more than anyone.

ColbyLang

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Her situation sucks, but she was avidly anti-American.  I am actually very sad for her and her family.  This is a terrible way to learn how good you actually had something.

Here is one of her statements, she seems to think the rest of the world is like the US.  She gets 9 years to think about it.

"Griner also said she had received neither an explanation of her rights nor access to a lawyer in the initial hours of her detention, and that she had to use a translation app on her phone to communicate"

I read thru all of the comments. An American citizen brought illegal narcotics into a foreign country period. I don’t feel bad for her, she did it to herself. I could absolutely care less that she’s an athlete. If it happened to me or you, would the federal government be trying to barter for our release? 

lousubcap

Unfortunately for Griner, The Russians have the hammer (think shuffleboard or curling) and are likely gonna go for as much as they can get.  
Regardless of how it all went down she violated a hard rule, "Don't F with the F'er." 
I hope we don't give away the farm in this deal.  At some point I suspect it will get done as the PR (independent of all the facts) is not gonna stop. Just an opinion and we all know what those are worth...
Happy Friday!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

ColbyLang said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Her situation sucks, but she was avidly anti-American.  I am actually very sad for her and her family.  This is a terrible way to learn how good you actually had something.

Here is one of her statements, she seems to think the rest of the world is like the US.  She gets 9 years to think about it.

"Griner also said she had received neither an explanation of her rights nor access to a lawyer in the initial hours of her detention, and that she had to use a translation app on her phone to communicate"

I read thru all of the comments. An American citizen brought illegal narcotics into a foreign country period. I don’t feel bad for her, she did it to herself. I could absolutely care less that she’s an athlete. If it happened to me or you, would the federal government be trying to barter for our release? 

This is all true, however, (small amount) weed possession in Russia is normally a fine or ticket. Certainly not 9 years. She’s being used as a pawn. That said- stupid of her to put herself and the US  in that position. Selfish, stupid, or both. 

If this gets Wheelan out though, it may be all worth it. That dude is a spy. 

Love cap’s quote: don’t eff with the effer. She is on the “find out” side of “Fock around and find out”. 

Ozzie_Isaac

ColbyLang said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Her situation sucks, but she was avidly anti-American.  I am actually very sad for her and her family.  This is a terrible way to learn how good you actually had something.

Here is one of her statements, she seems to think the rest of the world is like the US.  She gets 9 years to think about it.

"Griner also said she had received neither an explanation of her rights nor access to a lawyer in the initial hours of her detention, and that she had to use a translation app on her phone to communicate"

I read thru all of the comments. An American citizen brought illegal narcotics into a foreign country period. I don’t feel bad for her, she did it to herself. I could absolutely care less that she’s an athlete. If it happened to me or you, would the federal government be trying to barter for our release? 

I agree with the fact, she broke the law and she was not in the US.  Them's the breaks.  There are other US Citizens currently in Russia for similar issues.  One is Marc Fogel, a teacher, who got 14 years for marijuana.

I personally would stay out of Russia and China and most other places my rights are suspect.  I recognize my rights end at the border.  When I go to Mexico, I do a thorough sweep of my vehicles.  I do not want any bullets, casings, etc floating around because I know that means jail.

Maybe her incarceration will bring focus on some of the others and they can be freed too.  Because as you said, neither of us would even make it below the fold.  I also believe a fair bit of this is political.  Russia doesn't really care about drugs, its not like they are a bastion of justice and freedom.  She was a pawn at the start of the Ukrainian war.  She put herself in that position and it sucks.

dmchicago

This why I only move my “product “ through Denver. 

JohnInCarolina

Yep, don’t overlook the importance of Whelan.  

HeavyG

ColbyLang said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Her situation sucks, but she was avidly anti-American.  I am actually very sad for her and her family.  This is a terrible way to learn how good you actually had something.

Here is one of her statements, she seems to think the rest of the world is like the US.  She gets 9 years to think about it.

"Griner also said she had received neither an explanation of her rights nor access to a lawyer in the initial hours of her detention, and that she had to use a translation app on her phone to communicate"

I read thru all of the comments. An American citizen brought illegal narcotics into a foreign country period. I don’t feel bad for her, she did it to herself. I could absolutely care less that she’s an athlete. If it happened to me or you, would the federal government be trying to barter for our release? 

If you or me were primarily being used by a foreign government as a political pawn as Griner has then yeah, the US govt. would likely get involved.

Just one point of reference...

"In 2019, 25-year-old Israeli backpacker Naama Issahar was stopped in Sheremetyevo with nearly 10 grams of hashish while on a layover from India. She was convicted of narco-trafficking but was freed several months later, after then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu personally intervened on her behalf."

Griner had a fraction of that amount of drugs and was given a sentence and fine much larger than would be the norm. No doubt the politics of US/Russian relations of late have figured into all this and it is more than likely that Putin will eventually feel that he has played out the game with her (so to speak) and will free her not too far down the road.

Also note that the US isn't currently trying to barter just for her - she's just part of a possible "package deal" (personally, I think giving up Bout is too generous a potential trade).

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1554247708671479809?s=20&t=GHc1Fs1somPAZPQdVALhkA