Smoking in BGE, interesting approach

jjdbike

Hey folks,
I just listened to a lecture on "Wood, smoke, and the smoke rings" by Dr. Greg Blonder on Pitmaster amazing ribs site. Dr. Blonder explains his preferred method to smoke food on a BGE. This is of course based upon the assertion that the best smoke comes from a small hot fire, with a homogeneous temp, and plenty of oxygen. He suggests building a small wood fire w/ dome open. Once the wood fire is up to temp and smoke is clean (basically mostly coals), he smokes the meat for 15 mins or so. Then add just enough hot (pre-lit & ashes over) coals to maintain temp (for heat only). He also said he likes some sort of minion method, which I don't see being very easy or practical in a BGE, but I may not entirely understand the minion method. He also suggests the meat should be cold and kept moist to maximize the smoke ring and so more smoke sticks. He also explains why there isn't necessarily a strong positive correlation between the smoke ring and smokey flavor.   
I'd love to hear you thoughts on this method of smoking on the BGE.
JD

lkapigian

Honestly , at the end of the day, I no longer use “ chunks” when I use the Egg.. I figure it’s already hardwood I’m burning and I’m ok with the fat dripping smoke 

jjdbike

lkapigian said:

Honestly , at the end of the day, I no longer use “ chunks” when I use the Egg.. I figure it’s already hardwood I’m burning and I’m ok with the fat dripping smoke 

Thanks,
Are you saying that using Lump or Briquette charcoal is hardwood and you're getting smoke flavor from that? 
Interesting. Many say that one gets very little, if any smoke flavor from charcoal. I want more smoke flavor than simply burning charcoal. 
Respectfully,
JD

lkapigian

Lump for sure is not processed and is just  hardwood, and in a smoldering environment, for me, is perfect 

RyanStl

The smoke ring is visual only, Kenji from serious eats explains this. Colder meat will pickup more smoke flavor because it extends the period of time meat actually picks up the smoke flavor.  Seems to me reading above people try to overthink things.

If you want smoke flavor you can't just use lump, unless it's crappy lump. Good charcoal should burn relatively clean.

Edit: some don't like smoke so would prefer lump only. Maybe Ikapigian falls into that category.

caliking

I feel like  you answered many of your own questions, within the initial post. 

The joints that are consistently rated as "best" do not use cookers with restricted airflow i.e. BGE/kamado-type cookers, etc. The BGE shines re: convenience, and versataility (for home cooks). 

Can you 'que delicious grub with a BGE? YES. 
Can you 'que delicious grub with just about any type of cooker? YES. 
Is it worth overthinking things? meh.

Edit: there are a number of ways to engineer a good looking smoke ring.  Yet to hear of it impacting flavor. 

alaskanassasin

lkapigian said:

Lump for sure is not processed and is just  hardwood, and in a smoldering environment, for me, is perfect 

 I love the smell of smoking hickory and apple wood. 

Legume

Overthinking in the name of website content.  Accessories can be that way too.

danhoo

I won't be over thinking the tri tip that I smoke later today in my LBGE fed by my smoke daddy mangnum PIG with pecan chips. 

2 hours cold smoke,

Then i'll light lump and slow smoke at 180 to 200F grate, about 220 F dome and keep the smoke daddy attached until the TT reaches about 120F internal. 

Then I'll reverse sear and be happy I didn't over think which Sonoma county zin I'm going to have with this. 

jjdbike

Yup,
I overthink stuff, especially que.
You make a good point about website content & accessories.

I don't know what a smoke daddy PIG is from danhoo's reply. 

Yes cooking w/ BGE is convenient and versatile.

That being said, I'm still wondering about that idea of building a woodfire in an open BGE to smoke meat w/ top open, then adding pre-lit - ashed over coals for heat. Yup.... still overthinking. OCD, the struggle is real.
JD

Legume

jjdbike said:

Yup,
I overthink stuff, especially que.
You make a good point about website content & accessories.

I don't know what a smoke daddy PIG is from danhoo's reply. 

Yes cooking w/ BGE is convenient and versatile.

That being said, I'm still wondering about that idea of building a woodfire in an open BGE to smoke meat w/ top open, then adding pre-lit - ashed over coals for heat. Yup.... still overthinking. OCD, the struggle is real.
JD

Oh I wasn’t referring to you overthinking.  We all do.  I think the drive to create new content creates some odd suggestions at times, trying to find a way to make an egg cook like it’s not an egg.  However, I will share that I’ve heard from a reliable source that stacking the lump and wood chunks with your left hand in a counterclockwise direction makes the cleanest fire.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

jjdbike said:

Hey folks,
I just listened to a lecture on "Wood, smoke, and the smoke rings" by Dr. Greg Blonder on Pitmaster amazing ribs site. Dr. Blonder explains his preferred method to smoke food on a BGE. This is of course based upon the assertion that the best smoke comes from a small hot fire, with a homogeneous temp, and plenty of oxygen. He suggests building a small wood fire w/ dome open. Once the wood fire is up to temp and smoke is clean (basically mostly coals), he smokes the meat for 15 mins or so. Then add just enough hot (pre-lit & ashes over) coals to maintain temp (for heat only). He also said he likes some sort of minion method, which I don't see being very easy or practical in a BGE, but I may not entirely understand the minion method. He also suggests the meat should be cold and kept moist to maximize the smoke ring and so more smoke sticks. He also explains why there isn't necessarily a strong positive correlation between the smoke ring and smokey flavor.   
I'd love to hear you thoughts on this method of smoking on the BGE.
JD

Ha ha. that is the article that made me change my mind on the cabinet smoker for the kbq. 

loco_engr

@Legume said: "I will share that I’ve heard from a reliable source that stacking the lump and wood chunks with your left hand in a counterclockwise direction makes the cleanest fire." 
LOL . . . this made me think of the left hand brisket theory.  

danhoo

Legume said:

jjdbike said:

Yup,
I overthink stuff, especially que.
You make a good point about website content & accessories.

I don't know what a smoke daddy PIG is from danhoo's reply. 

Yes cooking w/ BGE is convenient and versatile.

That being said, I'm still wondering about that idea of building a woodfire in an open BGE to smoke meat w/ top open, then adding pre-lit - ashed over coals for heat. Yup.... still overthinking. OCD, the struggle is real.
JD

Oh I wasn’t referring to you overthinking.  We all do.  I think the drive to create new content creates some odd suggestions at times, trying to find a way to make an egg cook like it’s not an egg.  However, I will share that I’ve heard from a reliable source that stacking the lump and wood chunks with your left hand in a counterclockwise direction makes the cleanest fire.

Only in the northern hemisphere. 

Down under, left hand and clockwise.

jjdbike

Legume said:

jjdbike said:

Yup,
I overthink stuff, especially que.
You make a good point about website content & accessories.

I don't know what a smoke daddy PIG is from danhoo's reply. 

Yes cooking w/ BGE is convenient and versatile.

That being said, I'm still wondering about that idea of building a woodfire in an open BGE to smoke meat w/ top open, then adding pre-lit - ashed over coals for heat. Yup.... still overthinking. OCD, the struggle is real.
JD

Oh I wasn’t referring to you overthinking.  We all do.  I think the drive to create new content creates some odd suggestions at times, trying to find a way to make an egg cook like it’s not an egg.  However, I will share that I’ve heard from a reliable source that stacking the lump and wood chunks with your left hand in a counterclockwise direction makes the cleanest fire.

That's pretty funny. I'm considering trying that for my next cook : )
JD

jjdbike

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

jjdbike said:

Hey folks,
I just listened to a lecture on "Wood, smoke, and the smoke rings" by Dr. Greg Blonder on Pitmaster amazing ribs site. Dr. Blonder explains his preferred method to smoke food on a BGE. This is of course based upon the assertion that the best smoke comes from a small hot fire, with a homogeneous temp, and plenty of oxygen. He suggests building a small wood fire w/ dome open. Once the wood fire is up to temp and smoke is clean (basically mostly coals), he smokes the meat for 15 mins or so. Then add just enough hot (pre-lit & ashes over) coals to maintain temp (for heat only). He also said he likes some sort of minion method, which I don't see being very easy or practical in a BGE, but I may not entirely understand the minion method. He also suggests the meat should be cold and kept moist to maximize the smoke ring and so more smoke sticks. He also explains why there isn't necessarily a strong positive correlation between the smoke ring and smokey flavor.   
I'd love to hear you thoughts on this method of smoking on the BGE.
JD

Ha ha. that is the article that made me change my mind on the cabinet smoker for the kbq. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

jjdbike said:

Hey folks,
I just listened to a lecture on "Wood, smoke, and the smoke rings" by Dr. Greg Blonder on Pitmaster amazing ribs site. Dr. Blonder explains his preferred method to smoke food on a BGE. This is of course based upon the assertion that the best smoke comes from a small hot fire, with a homogeneous temp, and plenty of oxygen. He suggests building a small wood fire w/ dome open. Once the wood fire is up to temp and smoke is clean (basically mostly coals), he smokes the meat for 15 mins or so. Then add just enough hot (pre-lit & ashes over) coals to maintain temp (for heat only). He also said he likes some sort of minion method, which I don't see being very easy or practical in a BGE, but I may not entirely understand the minion method. He also suggests the meat should be cold and kept moist to maximize the smoke ring and so more smoke sticks. He also explains why there isn't necessarily a strong positive correlation between the smoke ring and smokey flavor.   
I'd love to hear you thoughts on this method of smoking on the BGE.
JD

Ha ha. that is the article that made me change my mind on the cabinet smoker for the kbq. 

Yes, I too am sold on the KBQ. I'm in the process of looking for a used one.
Thanks for informing me about them, otherwise, I'd probably never own a stick burner.
JD

fishlessman

theres alot of folklore/myths out there about bbq.  lets see, meat takes on smoke flavor until it hits 140 degrees...nope.  start with cold meat and smoke it slowly to 140 degrees gives it a better smoke ring....not really true.  minion method verse dump it out of a bag and give it a stir....pretty much the same thing , ones less work. get the lump well lit verse a small contained fire...well its hard to maintain low and slows lit in many places in an egg. get the egg burning with true almost invisible blue smoke is needed on a long over night cook, well close enough works on an overnighter

Foghorn

danhoo said:

Legume said:

jjdbike said:

Yup,
I overthink stuff, especially que.
You make a good point about website content & accessories.

I don't know what a smoke daddy PIG is from danhoo's reply. 

Yes cooking w/ BGE is convenient and versatile.

That being said, I'm still wondering about that idea of building a woodfire in an open BGE to smoke meat w/ top open, then adding pre-lit - ashed over coals for heat. Yup.... still overthinking. OCD, the struggle is real.
JD

Oh I wasn’t referring to you overthinking.  We all do.  I think the drive to create new content creates some odd suggestions at times, trying to find a way to make an egg cook like it’s not an egg.  However, I will share that I’ve heard from a reliable source that stacking the lump and wood chunks with your left hand in a counterclockwise direction makes the cleanest fire.

Only in the northern hemisphere. 

Down under, left hand and clockwise.

All of the above advice only applies if the brisket is from the left side of the cow.

jjdbike

fishlessman said:

theres alot of folklore/myths out there about bbq.  lets see, meat takes on smoke flavor until it hits 140 degrees...nope.  start with cold meat and smoke it slowly to 140 degrees gives it a better smoke ring....not really true.  minion method verse dump it out of a bag and give it a stir....pretty much the same thing , ones less work. get the lump well lit verse a small contained fire...well its hard to maintain low and slows lit in many places in an egg. get the egg burning with true almost invisible blue smoke is needed on a long over night cook, well close enough works on an overnighter

Thanks fishless,
Interesting reply. I've read about cold meat creating fake smoke ring. I've also read that the smoke ring is a chemical reaction and really has very little to do w/ actual smoke flavor.
So are you saying the minion method is BS? I'm not new, but I'm trying to understand what you're saying. These sound like important distinctions, are you willing to clarify please?
Thanks,
JD

fishlessman

jjdbike said:

fishlessman said:

theres alot of folklore/myths out there about bbq.  lets see, meat takes on smoke flavor until it hits 140 degrees...nope.  start with cold meat and smoke it slowly to 140 degrees gives it a better smoke ring....not really true.  minion method verse dump it out of a bag and give it a stir....pretty much the same thing , ones less work. get the lump well lit verse a small contained fire...well its hard to maintain low and slows lit in many places in an egg. get the egg burning with true almost invisible blue smoke is needed on a long over night cook, well close enough works on an overnighter

Thanks fishless,
Interesting reply. I've read about cold meat creating fake smoke ring. I've also read that the smoke ring is a chemical reaction and really has very little to do w/ actual smoke flavor.
So are you saying the minion method is BS? I'm not new, but I'm trying to understand what you're saying. These sound like important distinctions, are you willing to clarify please?
Thanks,
JD

fill it half way up, stir the lump just a little, fill it the rest of the way up and light. minion method was big around 20 years ago but ive not had a problem doing it either way. if i think about it, i will drop a couple big pieces down low, but ive even forgot to put the lump grate in and lump was all the way down to the vent door. i dont use fan control devices but if one did, i dont see how the minion method would help a controlled fire. i do have the very first guru pit controller, its a spring water temp type automotive radiator control device that sits on top, keeps temp between 220 and 250, close enough for me.

fishlessman

oh, and the best smoke ring ive gotten on a brisket was 2.5 hours direct with a fireplace split as smoking wood, then foil wraped for another 3 hours with a tablespoon of soda water and a tablespoon of worcestershire sauce. 5.5 hours. want to see smoke, do that

lkapigian

jjdbike said:

fishlessman said:

theres alot of folklore/myths out there about bbq.  lets see, meat takes on smoke flavor until it hits 140 degrees...nope.  start with cold meat and smoke it slowly to 140 degrees gives it a better smoke ring....not really true.  minion method verse dump it out of a bag and give it a stir....pretty much the same thing , ones less work. get the lump well lit verse a small contained fire...well its hard to maintain low and slows lit in many places in an egg. get the egg burning with true almost invisible blue smoke is needed on a long over night cook, well close enough works on an overnighter

Thanks fishless,
Interesting reply. I've read about cold meat creating fake smoke ring. I've also read that the smoke ring is a chemical reaction and really has very little to do w/ actual smoke flavor.
So are you saying the minion method is BS? I'm not new, but I'm trying to understand what you're saying. These sound like important distinctions, are you willing to clarify please?
Thanks,
JD

The smoke ring is already in the meat, it is the Myoglobin ( red color of beef) if enough Nitric Oxide condenses on the meat surface it will remain red a bit deeper....it is just the meat not turning brown in that area, it does not magically appear , a little celery salt or seed in your rub,or Cure 1 , anything with Nitrite will "cure " the meat a bit and do the same thing..........this is how pastrami gets its color , just cured longer 

fishlessman

heres some good info from an egger that used to post here years ago on smoke rings. one thing that may interest you is adding a couple kingsford briquets to the lump, it helps with the ring but can also improve the smoke profile for some.

https://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/smoke-rings.html

one thing ive noticed in your posts is the smoke profile in the egg being low, most of that is the chef breathing in more egg smoke during the cook checking on things, that kills the smoke flavor for the chef. the chef doesnt taste it but the guests do. most of the big metal smokers exhaust higher up.

i need to stay away from the egg during low and slows and if its just for me, a little mesquite chips near the end doesnt hurt. just a tiny amount

unoriginalusername

fishlessman said:

heres some good info from an egger that used to post here years ago on smoke rings. one thing that may interest you is adding a couple kingsford briquets to the lump, it helps with the ring but can also improve the smoke profile for some.

https://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/smoke-rings.html

one thing ive noticed in your posts is the smoke profile in the egg being low, most of that is the chef breathing in more egg smoke during the cook checking on things, that kills the smoke flavor for the chef. the chef doesnt taste it but the guests do. most of the big metal smokers exhaust higher up.

i need to stay away from the egg during low and slows and if its just for me, a little mesquite chips near the end doesnt hurt. just a tiny amount

Grandma doesn’t notice the purfume just like the pitmaster has a hard time tasting the smoke. Eat your leftovers to get a better sense of your smoke profile

try shoving wood chips under the fire every hour or so. With a basket plenty of hot embers fall down tk combust them into good smoke for long cooks  

jjdbike

unoriginalusername said:

fishlessman said:

heres some good info from an egger that used to post here years ago on smoke rings. one thing that may interest you is adding a couple kingsford briquets to the lump, it helps with the ring but can also improve the smoke profile for some.

https://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/smoke-rings.html

one thing ive noticed in your posts is the smoke profile in the egg being low, most of that is the chef breathing in more egg smoke during the cook checking on things, that kills the smoke flavor for the chef. the chef doesnt taste it but the guests do. most of the big metal smokers exhaust higher up.

i need to stay away from the egg during low and slows and if its just for me, a little mesquite chips near the end doesnt hurt. just a tiny amount

Grandma doesn’t notice the purfume just like the pitmaster has a hard time tasting the smoke. Eat your leftovers to get a better sense of your smoke profile

try shoving wood chips under the fire every hour or so. With a basket plenty of hot embers fall down tk combust them into good smoke for long cooks  

Good perspective. Chips under basket, sound similar to what's done in a gravity fed.
Thank everyone!
JD

Mark_B_Good

The only part that has me confused on the original post ... only 15 minutes of smoking??  For beef, that is not nearly long enough ... and certainly not for pork. Think about brisket ... we are literally smoking that baby for like 6h or more before it gets wrapped.  I smoke ribs for 2.5h before they are wrapped.