OT subject but worth a main-stream read- OT News Feeds...

Gulfcoastguy

Sure all Putin has to do is cut off natural gas to Germany in winter.

lousubcap

Not Ukraine related but something to think about:
Copied today's from Nextdraft, linked here:  https://nextdraft.com/

"Americans don't just disagree with those on the other side of the aisle, they hate them. One of the reasons this hate is on the rise is because we are increasingly separated from one another. The absence of real (or even virtual) interactions leaves a vacuum that can be filled with feverish, fury-inducing messages created by those who benefit from dividing us; from politicians clinging to minority rule to faux news networks looking to up their rage ratings. It's a lot easier to create a caricature out of someone if that someone is out of sight. And we've almost completely lost sight of one another. We're divided economically, we're divided online, we're divided in the TV shows we watch and the music we hear, and, maybe most importantly, we're divided geographically. We've lost the daily interactions that remind us of our common humanity and that, regardless of our differences, there's much more that unites us. Sadly, the geographic divide is only getting more stark, as red Americans move to redder areas and blue Americans seek to make their surroundings more blue. We hate each other because we're divided and we further divide because we hate each other. NPR: Americans are fleeing to places where political views match their own. "America is growing more geographically polarized—red ZIP codes are getting redder and blue ZIP codes are becoming bluer. People appear to be sorting." I know what you're thinking. "Good riddance." But there's nothing good about this pattern. "

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/benpauker/status/1495837757356318722?s=20&t=1cvRIpTDp_RsSAD21Sg3_Q

This does not sound like a guy who has much interest in an off-ramp from the current escalation, but we'll see.    

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1495842047328141317?s=20&t=BIvAAtJ5Lb7PZBnodk37Dw

Moscow bureau chief at the Financial Times.  

HeavyG

I still don't believe that Putin will actually invade Ukraine with uniformed Russian troops. He will likely continue his ongoing decades long game of  skirmishes with proxy actors until the West gets bored.

Why the West hasn't put the screws to every Russian oligarch yet indicates to me that money is still (always!) more important than any Western posturing regarding notions of sovereignty and self determination.

Eoin

'Peacekeeping'. I'm sure we all feel better now peace is imminent.

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

I still don't believe that Putin will actually invade Ukraine with uniformed Russian troops. 

Uhm… 

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1495902087338766341?s=20&t=o_y5cvyuZGSCKitAcdo34A

Gulfcoastguy

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

I still don't believe that Putin will actually invade Ukraine with uniformed Russian troops. 

Uhm… 

Yeah, good timing right?

I got the impression that Putins' statement suggests he will be sending in a few thousand troops. If true, that is hardly the military invasion that the West has been suggesting will occur. Russia has had a few thousand actors in Ukraine for years - they just weren't wearing uniforms. So now some of those troops will be openly in uniform.

Maybe he will be sending in the 100-200 thousand troops and their weapons he has amassed along the border. I don't believe he will but I may well be wrong over the coming days.

In which case I will be awaiting another "Uhm..." response.

So now the ball is back in the West. How seriously will we respond (and should we even respond?)? My guess is we'll talk tough but the sanctions won't likely be strong enough to sway Putin from his decades long games.

So I now have added another opportunity to eat crow over the coming days.

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

I still don't believe that Putin will actually invade Ukraine with uniformed Russian troops. 

Uhm… 

Yeah, good timing right?

I got the impression that Putins' statement suggests he will be sending in a few thousand troops. If true, that is hardly the military invasion that the West has been suggesting will occur. Russia has had a few thousand actors in Ukraine for years - they just weren't wearing uniforms. So now some of those troops will be openly in uniform.

lousubcap

@HeavyG If you have scrolled thru all the Ukraine related posts here, there are many opinions (and that is what they are) about the next move beyond the posturing.  
I will say that he doesn't want a full on shoot 'em up.  He also enjoys the presence on the world stage that his third world (other than the nukes) blustering affords him.  I do believe we (the western media for sure) are making more of it than what it is (although not to be relegated).   Eyeballs on the screen as covid is fading in the public.  Gotta fill the time.
Been wrong before but hopefully not now.  FWIW-

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1496160976818876427?s=20&t=c_hK0-k5QmxG0tq_IzvcRA

JohnInCarolina

Good Lord

Eoin

Our brexiteers, bought and paid for with Russian money, have been out in defence of Putin on social media. After talking tough, our governing party (also bought and paid for with Russian money) came up with some feeble sanctions and are now trying to backtrack after being spotted in public going soft on their paymaster.

dmchicago

lousubcap

The only thing Putin respects is strength and the will to use it.  He is playing his hand to to maximum potential knowing that Western concepts of rules of law and civility will limit the response.  Besides the strongman playbook appeals to those in Russia who only know him as a power broker for the past few decades.  FWIW-

Botch

Germany halted the final certification of the direct gas pipeline from it to Russia, something I didn't expect.  This will hurt Russia, but it will take awhile.  
And PBS reported, tonight, that the world banks have already frozen the accounts of the offspring of the russian oligarchs, who have shoveled off their wealth to their kids; this is very encouraging.  
 
It's making me wonder, as the world economy becomes more and more entangled with everybody in the world, that War just becomes a less desirable means of settling disputes. I've already heard reports of those very same russian Oligarchs grumbling about putin's ego/desire for "power" hurting their own wealth, and some pushback.  
 
Again, very entertaining and I'm glad I have no kids.  Pass the popcorn.    

JohnInCarolina

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/what-putin-fears-most/

JohnInCarolina

lousubcap

JohnInCarolina said:

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/what-putin-fears-most/

Thanks for that link.  A good read.  Paints a picture of how this will likely play out.  Time being the only variable.  

HeavyG

https://twitter.com/JohnFugelsang/status/1496328816507199489

Gulfcoastguy

An evil, despicable, tyrant can also be clever and savvy. Acting like he is an idiot is underestimating him and can lead to expensive consequences.

fishlessman

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

An evil, despicable, tyrant can also be clever and savvy. Acting like he is an idiot is underestimating him and can lead to expensive consequences.

I haven't seen anyone here suggest Putin is an idiot, but perhaps I've missed something.  

JohnInCarolina

fishlessman said:

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

How is he making Biden look like an idiot?  

fishlessman

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

How is he making Biden look like an idiot?  

putin is going to do what he wants, and it looks like hes taking the never argue with an idiot approach. just the other day he took the yes, im pulling my troops back, now he is using the peace keeping approach of invasion. whats biden doing, we will have sanctions approach, putin dont care. next up, take the flags off the soldiers invading, whose soldiers are those approach....its worked before

dmchicago

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

How is he making Biden look like an idiot?  

putin is going to do what he wants, and it looks like hes taking the never argue with an idiot approach. just the other day he took the yes, im pulling my troops back, now he is using the peace keeping approach of invasion. whats biden doing, we will have sanctions approach, putin dont care. next up, take the flags off the soldiers invading, whose soldiers are those approach....its worked before

SO, what should Biden be doing?

fishlessman

dmchicago said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

How is he making Biden look like an idiot?  

putin is going to do what he wants, and it looks like hes taking the never argue with an idiot approach. just the other day he took the yes, im pulling my troops back, now he is using the peace keeping approach of invasion. whats biden doing, we will have sanctions approach, putin dont care. next up, take the flags off the soldiers invading, whose soldiers are those approach....its worked before

SO, what should Biden be doing?

i suppose nothing, he is good at that, do what he knows, then we can watch china do the same. wish he had some advisors in dc, a way to come up with some better ideas.........i know,  blame trump

dmchicago

fishlessman said:

dmchicago said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

made obama look like an idiot, making biden look like an idiot, trump well....he could do that on his own

How is he making Biden look like an idiot?  

putin is going to do what he wants, and it looks like hes taking the never argue with an idiot approach. just the other day he took the yes, im pulling my troops back, now he is using the peace keeping approach of invasion. whats biden doing, we will have sanctions approach, putin dont care. next up, take the flags off the soldiers invading, whose soldiers are those approach....its worked before

SO, what should Biden be doing?

i suppose nothing, he is good at that, do what he knows, then we can watch china do the same. wish he had some advisors in dc, a way to come up with some better ideas.........i know,  blame trump

Next level response. Thanks.