Dough - I Don't Get It

WeberWho

I don't get it. I have a recipe and a video to follow along and I still manage to mess it up. Three of my last four dough balls have hit the trash. It's not the recipe. It's me. The one dough ball I did manage to shape into a circle and stretch was probably the best pizza I've made to date. I finally found a crust I liked. 

I followed the recipe and let the dough hang in the fridge for 24 hours. I realized I didn't let the pizza dough come up to room temp after removing from the fridge for the full 45 minutes yesterday like it mentioned in the recipe. So I followed the recipe once again and let the dough come up to room temp for 45-50 minutes this evening. Still no luck. It almost seemed harder to stretch tonight compared to the shorter amount of time after taking it out of the fridge coming up to room temperature yesterday. 

Why am I having such a hard time to get the dough to stretch? 

Thanks for the help!

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/member/views/robertas-pizza-dough-52869431

https://www.nytimes.com/video/dining/100000002808008/roberta8217s-pizza-dough.html

lkapigian

Not a pizza dough guy , but what I've learned about my bread dough is just let it be, let it hydrate , let it ferment dont overwork it ....not sure of pizza is the same but the less I fret sourdough the better more consistent it is 

Hans61

Here’s one that’s ready in 40min @casslong52 showed me this one it’s the recipe I used on the father day pizza thread I posted a little but a go. It’s been very consistent for Cass and worked awesome for me on the first try 

https://youtu.be/tU5pgqVV4QM

JohnInCarolina

45 minutes just isn’t enough.  Let it relax more. I’d say give it at least two hours after coming out of the fridge before you try and open it up.  If it’s still too hard, just wait longer.  Eventually it’ll be easier to stretch.

Photo Egg

I think you need to let it rest on counter longer than 45 minutes 

WeberWho

Thanks guys. The 45 minutes seemed a little suspect after reading more about it before making this post. 

WeberWho

Another question,

In the recipe they have you place the dough on a plate with plastic wrap over to rest in the fridge for 24 hours. 

I can't imagine that's the best way to do it. Can I just place them in their own bowls with an air tight lid and place in fridge? I feel the plastic wrap doesn't give too much room to move around. Even if the cling wrap isn't placed tight over it. 

keener75

+1 for what JIC said. Let it rest longer at room temp. As for your second question...I'm still figuring that out too. Last time I put three dough balls on one plate and covered in flour and plastic wrap. It grew into one giant ball that I had to cut back into three parts. I found that flour is your friend when this happens. Slowly incorperate flour for each step and it makes the handling of the dough balls easier. It is definately a work in progress but it is fun trying.

JohnInCarolina

WeberWho said:

Another question,

In the recipe they have you place the dough on a plate with plastic wrap over to rest in the fridge for 24 hours. 

I can't imagine that's the best way to do it. Can I just place them in their own bowls with an air tight lid and place in fridge? 

Yes.

paqman

Like the others said, 45 minutes is not long enough.

What kind of flour are you using?

I use deli containers sprayed with oil:

WeberWho

paqman said:

Like the others said, 45 minutes is not long enough.

What kind of flour are you using?

I use deli containers sprayed with oil:

Thanks for the picture. 

A mix of all purpose and 00. 

paqman

what brands?

WeberWho

@paqman I think you may have found part of my issue. I just realized I'm using bread flour and not all purpose flour. Is their a big difference between the two flours? I grabbed this as it said it was ideal for pizza but not realizing it wasn't all purpose flour as it was right next to the red King Arthur all purpose flour. 

I really liked the flavor of the one that did turn out. I'm not sure if I could use this yet over all purpose flour?


The 00 is from an Italian market/restaurant that's been in business for 100+ years in St. Paul. They must buy in bulk for the restaurant and also sell portions of it to the public. 



Thanks for the help!

ColbyLang

Huge difference between AP and bread flour. Namely protein levels. This means that your hydration levels will be off. More proteins will take more water. You could have replaced your 00 with bread flour and seen no change. 

WeberWho

ColbyLang said:

Huge difference between AP and bread flour. Namely protein levels. This means that your hydration levels will be off. More proteins will take more water. You could have replaced your 00 with bread flour and seen no change. 

Thanks for the explanation @ColbyLang  I knew something seemed off. I had no idea I grabbed bread flour over the all purpose flour as I was reading its uses and didn't notice the name change as they were next together on the shelf. 

Thank you @paqman for starting with the basics of what could have gone wrong. I grabbed a stock photo online of King Arthur all purpose flour and every image of the King Arthur bag was red. I typed in, "King Arthur all purpose flour blue bag". Right than and there I knew I messed up as the stock images said, "bread flour" on the bag. I'm an idiot.

You guys are the best. Thanks!

paqman

That flour is fine, I just check the hydration in the recipe you posted and at 65%, that’s not the problem.  45 minutes was not long enough, 1.5-2 hours would be better.

I learned that 00 flour is a mill size and doesn’t say much about a flour.  Some 00 flours are suitable for pasta, others for pizza.  Try getting more information about what they are selling you (protein content is a good start), the brand would help too.  I doubt that the flour is the problem.

If the dough is really fighting, you can let it rest covered with a slightly damp towel or cling film for 5-10 minutes after stretching it a bit and try again.  Even a minute or two will help.

WeberWho

paqman said:

That flour is fine, I just check the hydration in the recipe you posted and at 65%, that’s not the problem.  45 minutes was not long enough, 1.5-2 hours would be better.

I learned that 00 flour is a mill size and doesn’t say much about a flour.  Some 00 flours are suitable for pasta, others for pizza.  Try getting more information about what they are selling you (protein content is a good start), the brand would help too.  I doubt that the flour is the problem.

If the dough is really fighting, you can let it rest covered with a slightly damp towel or cling film for 5-10 minutes after stretching it a bit and try again.  Even a minute or two will help.

Thanks for the explanation. I made a couple more dough balls last night. I'll let them set out a couple hours before trying to stretch them. I appreciate the help. Thanks!

ColbyLang

Slacking dough is an art form. I had never messed with pizza dough until about 3 years ago when my buddy opened a pizza joint and had no room for a 120qt Hobart mixer. We made his samples for him and a week before opening he called me and asked me to make it full bore. We mix (using only hi-protein bread flour) divide, round and static freeze. Once frozen, we bulk bag and deliver to them frozen. They then place into dough boxes in their walk in for 48 hours. They then slack at room temp for another 12-18 depending on how bad they need them. They stretch 10.5 Oz of dough to 14” Neapolitan style crusts. Dough too cold, pizza quality suffers. @paqman is 100% correct that 00 refers only to milling screen size when the wheat is milled. 

paqman

@ColbyLang do you know what temperature your buddy bakes his pies at?  I find the 00 helps with higher temperatures.

I did not have much success freezing dough but i just have a regular freezer.

For Neapolitan style, I recently switched to a long room temperature fermentation (14-24 hours depending on the flour I am using) and very low amount of yeast.  I then divide/ball and follow up with a couple of days cold fermentation in the fridge.  I then take out doughs that I will be using 2-3 hours before baking but I baked as quickly as 30 minutes after taking out with decent results but definitely not as nice as after waiting 2-3 hours.

I am now looking for a good rich egg based dough recipe but I’m not having good results yet.

ColbyLang

paqman said:

@ColbyLang do you know what temperature your buddy bakes his pies at?  I find the 00 helps with higher temperatures.

I did not have much success freezing dough but i just have a regular freezer.

For Neapolitan style, I recently switched to a long room temperature fermentation (14-24 hours depending on the flour I am using) and very low amount of yeast.  I then divide/ball and follow up with a couple of days cold fermentation in the fridge.  I then take out doughs that I will be using 2-3 hours before baking but I baked as quickly as 30 minutes after taking out with decent results but definitely not as nice as after waiting 2-3 hours.

I am now looking for a good rich egg based dough recipe but I’m not having good results yet.

650° plus. His oven is wood fired/gas assist. His pies bake quickly. 90-120 seconds on some 2-3 minutes on others depending on toppings. Had to remove the sugar and oil from his formula to stop the scorching 

Hoster05

I agree with @ColbyLang.  It’s an art form.  Ever time is seems different.   I did these pies with forkish’s sourdough recipe from his pizza book.  650 degrees on a pizza stone.  

Matt86m

So much to learn about this! My Son gave me a 21'' BGE pizza stone for fathers day. Gonna start down the pizza road

thetrim

I'm freaked out to make my own dough... So much so that my new ooni is lonely

buzd504

thetrim said:

I'm freaked out to make my own dough... So much so that my new ooni is lonely

Only way to learn is to do it. Even the failures are fun. 

hoosier_egger

WeberWho said:

Another question,

In the recipe they have you place the dough on a plate with plastic wrap over to rest in the fridge for 24 hours. 

I can't imagine that's the best way to do it. Can I just place them in their own bowls with an air tight lid and place in fridge? I feel the plastic wrap doesn't give too much room to move around. Even if the cling wrap isn't placed tight over it. 

That's typically what I do, only with 3 dough balls all smooshing together

WeberWho

@lkapigian
@Hans61
@JohnInCarolina
@Photo Egg
@keener75
@paqman
@ColbyLang
@Hoster05
@ColtsFan
@thetrim
@buzd504
@Matt86m

I just wanted to take a minute and thank you guys for the help!

Tonight's dough was a night and day difference from the previous dough the past few days. I switched over to an air tight container when storing in the fridge for the 24 hour rest. I had a much higher rise in the dough and the consistency was much better than the other dough I had under the cling wrap on the plate. I also let the dough set at room temperature for 2 hours before stretching it. What a difference. Wow. It was soooooo much easier to work with. 

The only issue I ran into was my Blackstone pizza oven. The motor stopped spinning near the end of the first cook. It apparently didn't like the 1,000 degree heat. So I had to manually rotate them with the oversized pizza peel. (The motors are junk. I knew prior to purchasing it. It will need an upgrade. The motor did come back to life shortly after I was done with the pizzas. The 1,000 degrees was probably a little excessive.  )

I thought the pies turned out really good. Far from perfect but happy to see it moving in the right direction. 

keener75

That looks amazing man! Crust looks perfect despite the mechanical failure. Way to persevere. You have inspired me to try again this weekend. 

Photo Egg

Looks like a win!
Way to find what works for you.

paqman

Nice pies!  It will keep getting better from here!

With high temperature like this, you could go with just 00 flour, 62-65% water, 3% salt and yeast based on the time you want to let your dough ferment.

Try to get more info about that 00 flour.

WeberWho

paqman said:

Nice pies!  It will keep getting better from here!

With high temperature like this, you could go with just 00 flour, 62-65% water, 3% salt and yeast based on the time you want to let your dough ferment.

Try to get more info about that 00 flour.

Thanks! I'll send an email and see what I can find out about the 00. 

I've used just 00 with pies in the past on the BGE. I didn't have great results. Even with high temps. I have a feeling the way this Blackstone oven works it would be much more suitable for such a recipe. I'll definitely give it a try as I'm interested to see the difference between the BGE and Blackstone with it. 

HeavyG

Hoster05 said:

I agree with @ColbyLang.  It’s an art form.  Ever time is seems different.   I did these pies with forkish’s sourdough recipe from his pizza book.  650 degrees on a pizza stone.  

So were those two pies part of your "States of the Union" series?

Ohio? West Virginia??