OT - Politics & Religion Thread - OT!!

thetrim

You Need an ID to buy tobacco.  

Nothing wrong w showing an ID to vote. 

lousubcap

For the record, the quickest thread that I started and got nuked happened in under two hours and only addressed shipping companies.  I recall @DMW made a comment and I replied and next thing "gone"  .  Of course that was a few years ago before sensitivity had any clout here.  

thetrim

@lousubcap you're hatred for the five letter company is a thing of legend around here...

In full disclosure, I'm waiting for a shipment from the three letter company right now...

DMW

thetrim said:

@lousubcap you're hatred for the five letter company is a thing of legend around here...

In full disclosure, I'm waiting for a shipment from the three letter company right now...

*your*

Botch

Botch said:

trump supporters are such judgmental ****.
I can tell just by looking at them.  

I kinda feel badly for the person flagging my self-depreciating (and funny) post...   

Botch

Kayak said:

One sunny day, I'm in my back yard, checking the condition of wifeys wash on the line (I just help once in a while!). Out front in the cul de sac, a police cruiser pulls up and two local PO's get out. Odd, but whatever. I turn to go back in the house and they start calling to me to come over and talk to them. Soon it's "Who are you? Do you have ID?", etc. Not in the mood for a constitutional argument, and unarmed, I show 'em my papers. They go on to explain that they have a report of a burglar afoot, and seen nearby. I just thought it was a case of Husband Handling Laundry that had them upset.

They asked to see your ID, while you were in your own back yard?!?!    

Terpderpitude

http://twitter.com/propublica/status/1270817308148187139

Kayak

Gulfcoastguy said:

This thread has the projected lifespan of a doughnut at a Weight Watchers convention.

As a card carrying member of WW, I take umbrage! I can't remember the last donut I ate, so, must mean it's going to go on long past stale.

Kayak

Botch said:

Kayak said:

One sunny day, I'm in my back yard, checking the condition of wifeys wash on the line (I just help once in a while!). Out front in the cul de sac, a police cruiser pulls up and two local PO's get out. Odd, but whatever. I turn to go back in the house and they start calling to me to come over and talk to them. Soon it's "Who are you? Do you have ID?", etc. Not in the mood for a constitutional argument, and unarmed, I show 'em my papers. They go on to explain that they have a report of a burglar afoot, and seen nearby. I just thought it was a case of Husband Handling Laundry that had them upset.

They asked to see your ID, while you were in your own back yard?!?!    

Yes indeed. Keeping the town safe they were. I'm sure Trim would say it was fine. Maybe they learned civil rights by watching Every Cop Show on Television or The Movies.

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

Battleborn

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

johnnyp

Cheeto bad

Kayak

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

Canugghead

How about politics AND religion...
Moses parted the Red Sea to save lives, fake disciple parted sea of (mostly black?) peaceful protesters for church photo op.

Battleborn

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

GATraveller

I tip my hat to you Sir. 

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/06/12/today-in-baseball-history-dock-ellis-tosses-his-lsd-fueled-no-hitter/

Kayak

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

So, what is that view that you are referring to? Granted, I asked a vague question about 'American Citizens'. Not many of us have had interactions of any kind, let alone unpleasant. More specifically, like 'the military', 'the police', etc, we generalize based on... TV? Movies? News? Facebook? Set aside the easy part about solving a crime in 60 minutes. You hear this all the time "They do a tough job interacting with the worst elements in our society, and none of us would want it." Is this accurate? Nationwide, I mean.

YukonRon

Mitch McConnell 
He is standing on the left. The only time in his life.

Something to think about. An obstructionist, putting republican judges in court, leading the gerrymandered districts to ensure republican victory.

Yeah, no racist issues on the republican side.

Btw, I sent in my last absentee ballot as a republican.
I voted undecided for president, for a native American Doctor for Mitches seat, and the other for 3rd district in the US house, an AA candidate that seeks to nullify OWP racism in our federal government.

Time to do your civic duty. Cast your vote.

Battleborn

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

So, what is that view that you are referring to? Granted, I asked a vague question about 'American Citizens'. Not many of us have had interactions of any kind, let alone unpleasant. More specifically, like 'the military', 'the police', etc, we generalize based on... TV? Movies? News? Facebook? Set aside the easy part about solving a crime in 60 minutes. You hear this all the time "They do a tough job interacting with the worst elements in our society, and none of us would want it." Is this accurate? Nationwide, I mean.

I'm not real sure what exactly you are asking, but I will try my best to answer what I think you are asking. 

I work a 10 hour shift. In those 10 hours, I may have 10 citizen contacts (10 times I have some interaction with a citizen/s). In each one of those interactions the police are expected to be perfect in that interaction. People don't generally think of what has happened before that.  

Let's say you call the police because your neighbor is having a loud party. It takes the police several hours to get out to your house. It takes several hours because the resources were dealing with a shooting where there is a fatality. They were tracking down a teenager with a mental disability that wondered away from their house. They were trying to help a lady that was raped get the help and resources she needs. 

By the time that officer gets to your house to help facilitate getting that party to dispersed, you are annoyed that you have been waiting so long for a response, rightfully so, you don't know everything else that is going on. I can't share with you everything that I have or why it may have taken so long to get to your call. People don't generally think about what else may be going on. They only see what is in front of them and what they are experiencing at the moment.

I don't know if any of that helped, made things more convoluted or I was just rambling. I will try my best to answer anything that is asked of me. If you have anymore questions, please ask.

etherdome

This is an honest question.  What is the element of racism in the George Floyd murder? I've been baffled by this. George being black and the cop being white is not a valid answer. Is there some back story that hasn't been publicized?  I have no doubt that African Americans, generally, don't get treated the same by many police and for that I have much empathy. There have been many clear cut cases of unarmed african american innocents being killed by cops that could have started this movement. Why this one? In this situation he committed a crime, resisted arrest, and had multiple drugs in his system that more than likely contributed to his death (under the circumstances). This appears to be a case of police brutality which is a completely separate issue. Don't hate me for asking....... 

thetrim

@YukonRon he's standing on the right side of that pic, dude...

Kayak

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

So, what is that view that you are referring to? Granted, I asked a vague question about 'American Citizens'. Not many of us have had interactions of any kind, let alone unpleasant. More specifically, like 'the military', 'the police', etc, we generalize based on... TV? Movies? News? Facebook? Set aside the easy part about solving a crime in 60 minutes. You hear this all the time "They do a tough job interacting with the worst elements in our society, and none of us would want it." Is this accurate? Nationwide, I mean.

I'm not real sure what exactly you are asking, but I will try my best to answer what I think you are asking. 

I work a 10 hour shift. In those 10 hours, I may have 10 citizen contacts (10 times I have some interaction with a citizen/s). In each one of those interactions the police are expected to be perfect in that interaction. People don't generally think of what has happened before that.  

Let's say you call the police because your neighbor is having a loud party. It takes the police several hours to get out to your house. It takes several hours because the resources were dealing with a shooting where there is a fatality. They were tracking down a teenager with a mental disability that wondered away from their house. They were trying to help a lady that was raped get the help and resources she needs. 

By the time that officer gets to your house to help facilitate getting that party to dispersed, you are annoyed that you have been waiting so long for a response, rightfully so, you don't know everything else that is going on. I can't share with you everything that I have or why it may have taken so long to get to your call. People don't generally think about what else may be going on. They only see what is in front of them and what they are experiencing at the moment.

I don't know if any of that helped, made things more convoluted or I was just rambling. I will try my best to answer anything that is asked of me. If you have anymore questions, please ask.

Sorry to be confusing! I made a comment asking if Americans had an accurate view of police work, and you replied “No”, so I wondered what that misguided view was. Your perspective seems to be that the workload is larger and wider ranging than we imagine. That’s undoubtedly true, and is another aspect of policing that may be ‘sub-optimal’. I am more interested in the view of how dangerous the average officers job is. Is it as bad as people think, or is it really fairly mundane? 

Ah well, we seem to be sinking already. 

nolaegghead

etherdome said:

This is an honest question.  What is the element of racism in the George Floyd murder? I've been baffled by this. George being black and the cop being white is not a valid answer. Is there some back story that hasn't been publicized?  I have no doubt that African Americans, generally, don't get treated the same by many police and for that I have much empathy. There have been many clear cut cases of unarmed african american innocents being killed by cops that could have started this movement. Why this one? In this situation he committed a crime, resisted arrest, and had multiple drugs in his system that more than likely contributed to his death (under the circumstances). This appears to be a case of police brutality which is a completely separate issue. Don't hate me for asking....... 

He didn't resist.  He may have not known he passed a counterfeit bill.  If he was a white guy in a business suit, seems unfathomable this would have happened.

YukonRon

thetrim said:

@YukonRon he's standing on the right side of that pic, dude...

@thetrim

That is an image several years ago. He is on the left. Trust me. He lives 150 ft from my back yard, if that.

My Beautiful Wife actually found Moscow Mitch's photograph on line. She is even a better expert than I.

When she showed it to me, I laughed.....then said...."figures."⁷

YukonRon

Here is a better picture, you will see the similarity
Note the glasses

HeavyG

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

So, what is that view that you are referring to? Granted, I asked a vague question about 'American Citizens'. Not many of us have had interactions of any kind, let alone unpleasant. More specifically, like 'the military', 'the police', etc, we generalize based on... TV? Movies? News? Facebook? Set aside the easy part about solving a crime in 60 minutes. You hear this all the time "They do a tough job interacting with the worst elements in our society, and none of us would want it." Is this accurate? Nationwide, I mean.

I'm not real sure what exactly you are asking, but I will try my best to answer what I think you are asking. 

I work a 10 hour shift. In those 10 hours, I may have 10 citizen contacts (10 times I have some interaction with a citizen/s). In each one of those interactions the police are expected to be perfect in that interaction. People don't generally think of what has happened before that.  

Let's say you call the police because your neighbor is having a loud party. It takes the police several hours to get out to your house. It takes several hours because the resources were dealing with a shooting where there is a fatality. They were tracking down a teenager with a mental disability that wondered away from their house. They were trying to help a lady that was raped get the help and resources she needs. 

By the time that officer gets to your house to help facilitate getting that party to dispersed, you are annoyed that you have been waiting so long for a response, rightfully so, you don't know everything else that is going on. I can't share with you everything that I have or why it may have taken so long to get to your call. People don't generally think about what else may be going on. They only see what is in front of them and what they are experiencing at the moment.

I don't know if any of that helped, made things more convoluted or I was just rambling. I will try my best to answer anything that is asked of me. If you have anymore questions, please ask.

Sorry to be confusing! I made a comment asking if Americans had an accurate view of police work, and you replied “No”, so I wondered what that misguided view was. Your perspective seems to be that the workload is larger and wider ranging than we imagine. That’s undoubtedly true, and is another aspect of policing that may be ‘sub-optimal’. I am more interested in the view of how dangerous the average officers job is. Is it as bad as people think, or is it really fairly mundane? 

Ah well, we seem to be sinking already. 

There certainly is no doubt that at times police work is quite dangerous. However, statistically, police and firefighter occupations don't even fall into the top ten of deadliest occupations.

Battleborn

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Kayak said:

Battleborn said:

Speaking of which, do you think American citizens have a realistic view of police work?

No.

Where do you think they get that view?

I think they get that view because most interactions with police aren't pleasant. Something bad has usually happened or people are being held accountable for an action. 
There are a million reasons people don't understand police work. It may be our (the police's) fault. It may be also be that people don't really want to know what policing entails. 
I urge anyone and everyone to go on a ride along if their local agency allows it. I have taken four people and each one has been incredibly beneficial. To both of us. 

So, what is that view that you are referring to? Granted, I asked a vague question about 'American Citizens'. Not many of us have had interactions of any kind, let alone unpleasant. More specifically, like 'the military', 'the police', etc, we generalize based on... TV? Movies? News? Facebook? Set aside the easy part about solving a crime in 60 minutes. You hear this all the time "They do a tough job interacting with the worst elements in our society, and none of us would want it." Is this accurate? Nationwide, I mean.

I'm not real sure what exactly you are asking, but I will try my best to answer what I think you are asking. 

I work a 10 hour shift. In those 10 hours, I may have 10 citizen contacts (10 times I have some interaction with a citizen/s). In each one of those interactions the police are expected to be perfect in that interaction. People don't generally think of what has happened before that.  

Let's say you call the police because your neighbor is having a loud party. It takes the police several hours to get out to your house. It takes several hours because the resources were dealing with a shooting where there is a fatality. They were tracking down a teenager with a mental disability that wondered away from their house. They were trying to help a lady that was raped get the help and resources she needs. 

By the time that officer gets to your house to help facilitate getting that party to dispersed, you are annoyed that you have been waiting so long for a response, rightfully so, you don't know everything else that is going on. I can't share with you everything that I have or why it may have taken so long to get to your call. People don't generally think about what else may be going on. They only see what is in front of them and what they are experiencing at the moment.

I don't know if any of that helped, made things more convoluted or I was just rambling. I will try my best to answer anything that is asked of me. If you have anymore questions, please ask.

Sorry to be confusing! I made a comment asking if Americans had an accurate view of police work, and you replied “No”, so I wondered what that misguided view was. Your perspective seems to be that the workload is larger and wider ranging than we imagine. That’s undoubtedly true, and is another aspect of policing that may be ‘sub-optimal’. I am more interested in the view of how dangerous the average officers job is. Is it as bad as people think, or is it really fairly mundane? 

Ah well, we seem to be sinking already. 

The job is dangerous, no doubt. Hands kill and that is why you see a lot of videos of force being used when hands are not kept visible. At the end of the day every encounter could be an officers last. No matter how mundane it may seem on the surface. You can only help mitigate the risk by controlling factors that you can. Is everyday high tempo, crazy a$$ calls? No. There are "boring" days too. 

Sgt. Ben Jenkins was a Nevada Highway Patrolman that was murdered a couple of months ago. He was patrolling a remote part of the state when he saw a vehicle that appeared disabled. He stopped to check on the driver and as he was walking back to his patrol vehicle he was shot and killed. The gunman stripped Sgt Jenkins of his uniform, dragged his body to the gunman's vehicle and set it on fire and then stole the patrol vehicle.

Officer Shay Mikalonis was taking an agitating subject into custody during protests a couple weeks ago and was shot in the back of the head by different person. He is still alive, somehow, on a ventilator that he may never get off of.

Neither of these officers thought those days would bring what they did. Yes, the job is dangerous. Not always by the type of violence of these two examples. There are countless stories of officers getting hit by vehicles on the side of the road or being involved in crashes going to help someone.

td66snrf

@Kayak are you black?  It may have had a different outcome if you are.

Kayak

No, not black. That was kind of my point - that I was privileged but didn't realize it.

Kayak

HeavyG made the point that the job of policing is actually not particularly dangerous, as jobs go. More so than my office job, of course, but not in the 'top ten'. In fact, I think most police officers die in car crashes. So if we all think it is very dangerous, how would that affect our support for their actions, their need for more 'gear', and giving them the benefit of the doubt when something happens? It sounds like a typical day of policing could be handled by someone who wasn't armed, and the dangerous stuff could be done by a smaller force of well trained officers. 

Eoin

And maybe sending people used to dealing with dangerous criminals to deal with street protests is counter productive.

Edit: Here, we also have community support officers with lesser powers. We just need more of them to be present on the streets day to day. And also to be representative of the communities that they police.