OT - Trouble for Traeger?

Canugghead

This could be a pellet game changer. Impressive specs and pricing compared to Traeger ...
https://amazingribs.com/ratings-reviews/pellet-grill/weber-smokefire-pellet-grill

If it works as good as claimed, it could hurt some BGE sales too. I know some consumers pick BGE over Traeger due to the latter's inability to sear, SmokeFire addresses that and many known Traeger issues.

unoriginalusername

Canugghead said:

This could be a pellet game changer. Impressive specs and pricing compared to Traeger ...
https://amazingribs.com/ratings-reviews/pellet-grill/weber-smokefire-pellet-grill

If it works as good as claimed, it could hurt some BGE sales too. I know some consumers pick BGE over Traeger due to the latter's inability to sear, SmokeFire addresses that and many known Traeger issues.

I see a spot for both but I don’t think I could cross shop a Kamado and a pellet 

JohnInCarolina

I'm pretty sure BGE has already lost plenty to pellet grills in general.  That's all the millenials are buying, because they're so g-d easy to use.  

Canugghead

@unoriginalusername Agree, but to each his own. I've seen first hand folks picking one or the other when they can or want to have just one grill.

edit: btw, 'first hand' means serving/dealing with bbq shoppers over two years.

Canugghead

@JohnInCarolina So true, having seen the old man use BGE, Kettle, Traeger, glorified UDS, WFO, Adore, etc. over the years, both my son and son-in-law (also a niece's husband) got/want a pellet grill as their first bbq.

HeavyG

I've watched a few vids/reviews from that Weber release party and it does seem that Weber has designed an interesting product that addresses some pellet grill problem areas and the pricing seems pretty reasonable (unlike their pricing for the Summit Charcoal "kamado").

WeberWho

I believe it only has a two year warranty. Which would worry me for the price they get for a new one. I'm not a pellet fan but if I was I'd hold off and see how the first couple batches of them hold up after a few years. 

Canugghead

WeberWho said:

I believe it only has a two year warranty. Which would worry me for the price they get for a new one. I'm not a pellet fan but if I was I'd hold off and see how the first couple batches of them hold up after a few years. 

Warranty

SmokeFire Grills are manufactured in Huntley, Illinois, using globally sourced component parts. The electrical components, cooking grates, pellet slide, firepot, heat baffle, pellet grate, and controller bezel have a three year warranty. The cook box and all other components have a five year warranty.

*********

I hear you about bleeding edge. OTOH given Weber's stellar reputation, I have faith in them to take care of any issues. Wait a few months may be, but I'm too impatient to wait several years 😊

cookingdude555

I don't think pellet grills have taken market share from kamados.  Kamados have enjoyed a steep market increase over the last decade or so, including BGE.  I think the market that is being hit by pellet grills are the classic propane grills.  People that have a gas grill wear out typically go get another one.  But from the people I know, many are moving over to pellet grills because they see that they can cook BBQ easily.  Weber has seen this firsthand, and they have waited patiently, and perfected what everyone else has done wrong during this first and second generation of pellet grill offerings.  I believe they have set a standard with this new grill, and are poised to regain some of their lost sales in the gas grill space.  It is cool to watch them respond calmly in a calculated manner instead of just making a "me too" product.

littlerascal56

Traeger brothers knew what they were doing when they sold the business to the Chinese.  Lots of shoddy cheap sheet metal grills marketed thru Cosco and Cabelas...basically screwing their dealer networks.  Many of them jumped ship.  Weber can easily jump in that market and take it over.  Go USA.

SonVolt

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

HeavyG

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

SonVolt

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steel as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. Build materials are more inline with a traditional thick gauge offset. If it were between Traeger and Weber I'd definitely lean towards Weber.

But once we're in the $1,200+ territory it's a hard sell for me.  Yoder's base model YS640 is only $200 more. Again, I haven't seen the Weber. We do have frequent access to the Yoder. 

pgprescott

SonVolt said:

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steels as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. 

There are advantages and disadvantages to heavy steel. 

Lit

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

Yoder prices went up recently. The 640 was $1400 range before it’s like $1800 now. 

Lit

cookingdude555 said:

I don't think pellet grills have taken market share from kamados.  Kamados have enjoyed a steep market increase over the last decade or so, including BGE.  I think the market that is being hit by pellet grills are the classic propane grills.  People that have a gas grill wear out typically go get another one.  But from the people I know, many are moving over to pellet grills because they see that they can cook BBQ easily.  Weber has seen this firsthand, and they have waited patiently, and perfected what everyone else has done wrong during this first and second generation of pellet grill offerings.  I believe they have set a standard with this new grill, and are poised to regain some of their lost sales in the gas grill space.  It is cool to watch them respond calmly in a calculated manner instead of just making a "me too" product.

Pellet grills have hurt kamado sales for sure. I for one would take a Yoder 640 over an egg without a doubt. One of my coworkers was looking for an egg but ended up with a pellet grill and they had a rib cook off last weekend and he won it with his $600 pellet grill and that was against other kamados. I think that was his 2nd or 3rd rack of ribs he’s ever cooked on a smoker. 

SonVolt

pgprescott said:

SonVolt said:

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steels as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. 

There are advantages and disadvantages to heavy steel. 

What advantages would a thin gauge steel smoker offer between these 2 models?

SonVolt

Lit said:

 I for one would take a Yoder 640 over an egg without a doubt. 

I wouldn't go that far! I can consistently churn out better tasting BBQ (and everything else) on my egg than I can the YS640. 

pgprescott

SonVolt said:

pgprescott said:

SonVolt said:

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steels as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. 

There are advantages and disadvantages to heavy steel. 

I can't think of any advantage to a thin gauge steel smoker. 

Heats up way faster than the heavy gauge. uses less fuel as a result on shorter cooks. There you go.

Like in carpentry, if 2 nails are good, 4 nails isn't necessarily great. There's more two these things than weight. That said, there are also advantages to heavy steel.

littlerascal56

Live near the Yoder factory, and have been inside (picking up parts) several times.  All their cookers are built like tanks.  That said, I sold my YS640 because it took so many pellets to heat up all that steel.  Just a short cook burned 4x the pellets of my cheap Traegers.  And it took quite a while for it to cool down, before putting back in shed. I had the “trap door” in the Yoder, so it was easy to sear steaks right over the firebox, which was nice.  

I couldn’t get my Traeger’s over 360 in the winter, which is why I sold them and use a BGE.  

My buddy bought a Memphis pellet grill for his outdoor kitchen.  It’s a built in style, with WiFi.  Will sear a steak at 500 degrees, fully insulated, and only $4k!

cookingdude555

I am sure Yoder's are a quality product, it sounds like they are enormously heavy.  I don't know if analysis and technology are behind the heavy design or not.  Big heavy offsets are crazy fuel hogs.  I would assume the Yoder is the same when compared to other pellet offerings.  It would be interesting to see how fuel consumption stacks up to the Weber.  It does look like the Yoder is a really heavy traeger, I am not sure what other features it has to set it apart, but I am ignorant in this regard and have not seen one.  I should probably find a dealer to go take a look.

SonVolt

It all depends on your needs and goals. For me, I'm a sucker for build quality, longevity and - most of all - taste. An offset wood burner is my gold standard. Pellet smokers already suffer from overly-mild smoke flavor, so I'm not sure burning less pellets is a good thing here.  

pgprescott

SonVolt said:

It all depends on your needs and goals. For me, I'm a sucker for build quality, longevity and - most of all - taste. An offset wood burner is my gold standard. Pellet smokers already suffer from overly-mild smoke flavor, so I'm not sure burning less pellets is a good thing here.  

Now you have ventured into the weeds. You asked a question and got a solid answer from more than one source. We don't really need to debate ALL the pluses and minuses.

 Anyway, the EGG is a more versatile cooker than all of them.

HeavyG

SonVolt said:

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steel as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. Build materials are more inline with a traditional thick gauge offset. If it were between Traeger and Weber I'd definitely lean towards Weber.

But once we're in the $1,200+ territory it's a hard sell for me.  Yoder's base model YS640 is only $200 more. Again, I haven't seen the Weber. We do have frequent access to the Yoder. 

I kinda figured weight might be one of your criteria. It seems a lot of folks will make judgements about "the quality" of an item based just on how heavy it is. Reminds me of the headphone manufacturer a few years back that added metal weights to some of their headphones cuz some people thought they felt "better made".

I've owned a few Weber grills over the years and while it is certainly thinner steel than the battleship plating some folks seem to expect on some grills, that Weber porcelainized metal stands up to the weather extremely well. My old Weber Genesis 2000 was left in the elements 24/7/365 for 25 years and never one spot of rust on the porcelainized metal.

I wonder what a Yoder left out in the same coastal environment would look like after 25 years. I guess they need all that metal to offset all the rust that falls off of them.

Pellet grills are thermostatically controlled ovens so they're not like some types of cookers where having lots of mass might be an asset in helping hold temps. In cold weather one might try and make the argument that all that mass helps retain heat and thus burn less fuel. There may be a kernel of truth to that but even Yoder sells a thermal jacket for use in cold weather for folks that really want to save fuel so I guess all that extra steel only helps just a skosh.

Yoder 640 lists for $1799 (plus another Benjamin or two for shipping) so that is quite a bit more than the anticipated price of the Weber 36 incher.

I have no doubt the Yoder is a fine product based on what I've read over the years. I'm also pretty sure Weber knows what they are doing and their new pellet cooker will be a fine product.

A few years ago I almost bought a Yoder 640 on the competition cart (which would make it easier to move around my often squishy yard). But I decided that I really didn't want a grill that required being plugged into an AC outlet. Then a few months later I turned around and bought my Karubecue which requires...being plugged into an AC outlet. Go figure right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SonVolt

pgprescott said:

SonVolt said:

It all depends on your needs and goals. For me, I'm a sucker for build quality, longevity and - most of all - taste. An offset wood burner is my gold standard. Pellet smokers already suffer from overly-mild smoke flavor, so I'm not sure burning less pellets is a good thing here.  

Now you have ventured into the weeds. You asked a question and got a solid answer from more than one source. We don't really need to debate ALL the pluses and minuses.

 Anyway, the EGG is a more versatile cooker than all of them.

ok

SonVolt

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

HeavyG said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

How are you judging build quality?

I haven't seen the Weber in person so I'm assuming it's made of the same thin enameled steel as the rest of their products. By comparison, it takes 2 hands to lift the heavy gauge steel lid of a YS640. Build materials are more inline with a traditional thick gauge offset. If it were between Traeger and Weber I'd definitely lean towards Weber.

But once we're in the $1,200+ territory it's a hard sell for me.  Yoder's base model YS640 is only $200 more. Again, I haven't seen the Weber. We do have frequent access to the Yoder. 

I kinda figured weight might be one of your criteria. It seems a lot of folks will make judgements about "the quality" of an item based just on how heavy it is. Reminds me of the headphone manufacturer a few years back that added metal weights to some of their headphones cuz some people thought they felt "better made".

I've owned a few Weber grills over the years and while it is certainly thinner steel than the battleship plating some folks seem to expect on some grills, that Weber porcelainized metal stands up to the weather extremely well. My old Weber Genesis 2000 was left in the elements 24/7/365 for 25 years and never one spot of rust on the porcelainized metal.

I wonder what a Yoder left out in the same coastal environment would look like after 25 years. I guess they need all that metal to offset all the rust that falls off of them.

Pellet grills are thermostatically controlled ovens so they're not like some types of cookers where having lots of mass might be an asset in helping hold temps. In cold weather one might try and make the argument that all that mass helps retain heat and thus burn less fuel. There may be a kernel of truth to that but even Yoder sells a thermal jacket for use in cold weather for folks that really want to save fuel so I guess all that extra steel only helps just a skosh.

Yoder 640 lists for $1799 (plus another Benjamin or two for shipping) so that is quite a bit more than the anticipated price of the Weber 36 incher.

I have no doubt the Yoder is a fine product based on what I've read over the years. I'm also pretty sure Weber knows what they are doing and their new pellet cooker will be a fine product.

A few years ago I almost bought a Yoder 640 on the competition cart (which would make it easier to move around my often squishy yard). But I decided that I really didn't want a grill that required being plugged into an AC outlet. Then a few months later I turned around and bought my Karubecue which requires...being plugged into an AC outlet. Go figure right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To me weight and heft matter, but I'm not limiting durability to corrosion and my cookers aren't subjected to weather extremes or left exposed to the elements.  I'm sure it's a fine smoker, it's just priced higher than I would have expected considering what's available relatively near that price point. 

SGH

Lit said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

Yoder prices went up recently. The 640 was $1400 range before it’s like $1800 now. 

Lit do you remember when the 640 debuted a few years back? It was 800 bucks. We all should of jumped on one then 👍

blind99

Amusing...  The focus was on how well a pellet smoker.... grills?

There's an accessory you can get for ANY smoker that instantly lets you grill like a star.  It costs $100, and it's called a Weber Kettle.

Lit

SGH said:

Lit said:

SonVolt said:

Hmmm, at $1,200 for the 36" version they're getting close to the Yoder price-point, yet nowhere near the same build quality. 

Yoder prices went up recently. The 640 was $1400 range before it’s like $1800 now. 

Lit do you remember when the 640 debuted a few years back? It was 800 bucks. We all should of jumped on one then 👍

I wish I would get one today for $1000 even. The new model does have some upgrades at $1800. Think I read it has 2 built in meat probes 

SGH

Lit said:

I wish I would get one today for $1000 even. The new model does have some upgrades at $1800. Think I read it has 2 built in meat probes 

They have definitely made some nice modifications and design changes. However I would still be all over the original for 800 bucks 👍

Canugghead

SonVolt said:

...
it's just priced higher than I would have expected considering what's available relatively near that price point. 

I'm not familiar with higher end pellet smokers like Yoder and Memphis so can't comment on them. Weber is after the mass consumer pellet grill market dominated by Traeger, based on specs and early reviews, IMO they're priced very competitively to accomplish that objective.

As a Traeger user, I can relate to many design features of Weber SmokeFire, for example:
1) pellet feed hole is at the bottom of the sloped hopper bottom, to avoid Traeger's pellet void problem (think BGE's centre burn problem)
2) pit probe positioned in middle instead of almost touching the side of the cook barrel, some Traeger users hack the probe by putting a paper towel between the probe and the side!
3) pellet slide to separate firepot from auger, to avoid Traeger's burn back problem.
4) self cleaning firepot
5) hidden grease/ash collector (no risk of animals diving into your outside hanging grease bucket in case you forget to put it away)
6) decent searing
7) SS cooking grates
8) auger reverse to empty pellets on shutdown
9) longer warranty on some components
10) pellet refill sensor
11) huge pellet hopper (some Traeger users add DIY hopper extension to increase capacity!)