Brisket Camp V, Oct 20th in New Orleans

CTMike

JohnInCarolina said:

People who got vaccinated and did the right thing are now being asked to put masks back on to protect the unvaccinated idiots from themselves.  I’m tired of a recalcitrant minority of the citizenry holding the collective group of thinking people hostage.

Well said John. The NFL boycotting, Trump-won neckbeards need to get onboard the train with the rest of us. I never stopped wearing a mask in crowded places because of my wife being immunocompromised. I don’t wear it in my cubicle at work or at home but pretty much at all other times. 

ColbyLang

CTMike said:

ColbyLang said:

CTMike said:

The energy company I work for (stock symbol is a single letter) has about 18,000 employees, and as of today only 10,700 are vaccinated. 

Our SVP and Chief Nuclear Officer sent out a pretty strongly worded message today about how people need to get vaccinated, unless they have valid religious or medical reasons. 

To me, the tone of the message might be setting the stage for terminating the anti-vaxxers in the future. I’m normally a live and let live kind of guy, but I would be alright with such a policy considering how fast our society would devolve in to chaos if the lights go out for an extended period of time. This is just my NSHO, I am not speaking for the company. 

Of course lawyers would have a field day signing up the terminated for a class-action lawsuit. 

As a business owner, this is interesting. We’re at about 65% vaxxed (with 50 employees). I’ve been told by a labor attorney that I can’t make them get vaccinated until Pfizer, Moderna and J&J are actually approved by the FDA and not emergency approved.

That’s completely understandable for a small business. But the energy sector falls under CISA and I can see the rules being different due to the critical nature of the business. 

Agreed. We can terminate anyone for no reason in the state of Louisiana. Doesn’t mean we won’t have to pay their unemployment and benefits or any of those fun things.

 I had enquired early on due to the demographics of our employees (majority (90% plus) are African American) and are refusing to get it. Since the upswing, we’ve had about 20 people get their first shots, so maybe it’s catching on. unvaccinated are mandatory mask. Vaccinated is optional. 

JethroVA

Botch said:

somebody said:

...sent out a pretty strongly worded message today about how people need to get vaccinated, unless they have valid religious or medical reasons. 

I may step on a lot of toes here, but dammit.  How many MORE "pastors/priests/ etc" have to kill off themselves and portions of their congregations before we stomp this **** out?!?  The "gods", whatever they are, have given us the intelligence to develop vaccines, seatbelts, airbags, stoplights, CRISPR, environmental scientists, grounded electrical circuits, CO detectors, nutritional scientists, on and on, and still so many still claim, "Oh, the Lord will decide for me".  These people just give more breeding ground for further variants, beyond "Delta", that will spread faster, kill more, and resist existing vaccines even better.  
It's time for fact-based folks to start doing something... different.  

@Botch - two or three generations from now, this problem may self-correct thru natural cleansing of the gene pool. It will be a rough ride in the meantime. 

Lit

My work sent out an email that masks are required for everyone that goes into the office again even if they are vaccinated.

QDude

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

JohnInCarolina

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

Lit

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

Stop it. John said it so it is true. 

CornfedMA

I generally regard the discourse here to be at a higher level than most forums & social media. I am also of the mind that everyone eligible should be vaccinated. But those questioning how vaccination became politicized and throwing stones at Trump supporters, seem to have selective amnesia or simply enjoy flinging sh!t at the opposition. There is a long and distinguished list of folks from the other side of the aisle that happily screamed from any rooftop possible that they would not trust or take a vaccine developed under the Trump administration...

alaskanassasin

Basically big tech and the media are dividing our country in order to sell advertising. It is the same as your uncle who sits on the couch in his underwear watching fox news all day. Watching NBC CBS CNN all day is the same thing on the other end of the spectrum.

alaskanassasin

I don't know anyone who vaccinated or did not based on party lines.

Lit

alaskanassasin said:

I don't know anyone who vaccinated or did not based on party lines.

Agree. I know many hard core Republicans that were first in line. Many of Georgias more democratic areas have the lowest vaccination rates. Theres alot of people on bith sides that are against it.

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

In fact, human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011.  So no, actually, this is not the first mRNA vaccine ever used.  

And do you really think FDA approval isn't forthcoming?  That is as much about the entire process and the facilities the company has in place than the vaccine itself.  

CTMike

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

Do you really think FDA approval isn't forthcoming?  That is as much about the entire process and the facilities the company has in place than the vaccine itself.  

Considering how many millions of vaccinations that have been given in this country alone, I would think that FDA approval would be fast-tracked considering there is a study population several orders of magnitude larger than the typical study group for a new drug. 

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

I don't know anyone who vaccinated or did not based on party lines.

I don't think people chose not to vaccinate because of party affiliation, per se.  But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

Things are not helped by the vaccine skepticism being pushed by Fox News.  That probably explains the political correlation as much as anything else.  

Botch

CornfedMA said:
There is a long and distinguished list of folks from the other side of the aisle that happily screamed from any rooftop possible that they would not trust or take a vaccine developed under the Trump administration...

I'll be honest, I can't remember hearing that from anyone.    (I personally did not seek out a hyrdrochloroquin, nor a bleach, shot however).  
 
Did see on one news channel just this morning that pharmacists in Missouri are seeing folks get their shots while wearing disguises.  I'm just bewildered.  

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

In fact, human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011.  So no, actually, this is not the first mRNA vaccine ever used.  

And do you really think FDA approval isn't forthcoming?  That is as much about the entire process and the facilities the company has in place than the vaccine itself.  

My point was that it could be considered "experiment" considering it has never been used as a vaccine for a virus (that I know of), also not i am doctor but "trial" sound like "experimental" also it is so new it is not approved by the FDA.

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

I don't know anyone who vaccinated or did not based on party lines.

I don't think people chose not to vaccinate because of party affiliation, per se.  But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

Things are not helped by the vaccine skepticism being pushed by Fox News.  That probably explains the political correlation as much as anything else.  

 What are you basing that on?

alaskanassasin

When I got the vaccine I don't remember checking a box that asked my party affiliation.

Botch

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:
But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

 What are you basing that on?

 
If you type "Vaccinations by Political Party" into Googles Images, you can see all kinds of comparisons.  I'm thinking the above is a bit old, I don't think the numbers are that stark now since Delta arrived.  

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

I don't know anyone who vaccinated or did not based on party lines.

I don't think people chose not to vaccinate because of party affiliation, per se.  But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

Things are not helped by the vaccine skepticism being pushed by Fox News.  That probably explains the political correlation as much as anything else.  

 What are you basing that on?

This has been widely reported.  

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

In fact, human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011.  So no, actually, this is not the first mRNA vaccine ever used.  

And do you really think FDA approval isn't forthcoming?  That is as much about the entire process and the facilities the company has in place than the vaccine itself.  

My point was that it could be considered "experiment" considering it has never been used as a vaccine for a virus (that I know of), also not i am doctor but "trial" sound like "experimental" also it is so new it is not approved by the FDA.

Again, FDA approval isn't about how new the technology is.  It's a lot more than that.  It involves an inspection of the entire production process, facilities, etc.  It certainly involves the question of the safety of the product as well but in this case there's really not any concern about that.  

I know that the FDA is nominally moving as quickly as they can to approve the vaccine but it's really too bad it's taking them as long as it is.  It seems clear that some people may be using that lack of approval as an excuse for why they're not taking it.  

lkapigian

Botch said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:
But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

 What are you basing that on?

 
If you type "Vaccinations by Political Party" into Googles Images, you can see all kinds of comparisons.  I'm thinking the above is a bit old, I don't think the numbers are that stark now since Delta arrived.  

Of those polled .....these things should always just that .....I am Republican and everyone I know that is, has had the vaccine. I would say the younger crowd are the anti vaxers on both sides

Either way N.O. Here I come 

Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes

alaskanassasin

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

QDude said:

JethroVA said:

JohnInCarolina said:

Dondgc said:

nolaegghead said:

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone just got vaccinated.

I got vaccinated as soon as I was eligible (February, Moderna). Still got Covid early this month. Thankfully it was mild.

The analogy I’ve heard that’s helpful is to view the vaccine as kind of like having an umbrella in the rain.  It won’t completely prevent you from getting wet (sick), but it’ll stop you from getting soaked (hospitalization, death).

Nearly everyone dying of covid these days has been unvaccinated.  Why eligible people remain hesitant is mystifying to me, especially when it’s free and readily available in the US.

Too many people still loyal to whatzhizname  For them, getting vaxxed would be admitting that whatzhizname was wrong.  So sad that the health of our fellow Americans became politicized. 

Last weekend, Trump said we should get vaccinated.  His followers should follow that advice.  I don't understand the hesitancy to get the vaccine when the worst case scenario is death.  Every week there are stories about people dying from it who would not get the shot.  The surviving family members then decide it is time to get it.  Too late for the deceased though.

Apparently they're concerned about the long-term effects of an "experimental" vaccine, despite there never being a vaccine in history that induced long-term effects.  

And then there is the long-term effects of ... well, death.  That doesn't appear to be part of the calculus somehow.  

 This is the first mRNA vaccine ever used so "experimental" is not that far off, it has also not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, you didn't get viagra before it was approved by the FDA ;-) 

In fact, human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011.  So no, actually, this is not the first mRNA vaccine ever used.  

And do you really think FDA approval isn't forthcoming?  That is as much about the entire process and the facilities the company has in place than the vaccine itself.  

My point was that it could be considered "experiment" considering it has never been used as a vaccine for a virus (that I know of), also not i am doctor but "trial" sound like "experimental" also it is so new it is not approved by the FDA.

Again, FDA approval isn't about how new the technology is.  It's a lot more than that.  It involves an inspection of the entire production process, facilities, etc.  It certainly involves the question of the safety of the product as well but in this case there's really not any concern about that.  

I know that the FDA is nominally moving as quickly as they can to approve the vaccine but it's really too bad it's taking them as long as it is.  It seems clear that some people may be using that lack of approval as an excuse for why they're not taking it.  

I have no idea how they approve things never claimed to I’m just saying they haven’t yet

CornfedMA

Botch said:

CornfedMA said:
There is a long and distinguished list of folks from the other side of the aisle that happily screamed from any rooftop possible that they would not trust or take a vaccine developed under the Trump administration...

I'll be honest, I can't remember hearing that from anyone.    (I personally did not seek out a hyrdrochloroquin, nor a bleach, shot however).  
 
Did see on one news channel just this morning that pharmacists in Missouri are seeing folks get their shots while wearing disguises.  I'm just bewildered.  

Here, I’ll get you started: 

Gov Cuomo- “I’m not that confident,” Cuomo said, adding: “You’re going to say to the American people now, ‘Here’s a vaccine, it was new, it was done quickly, but trust this federal administration and their health administration that it’s safe? And we’re not 100 percent sure of the consequences.’ I think it’s going to be a very skeptical American public about taking the vaccine, and they should be.”

And don’t forget Veep’s skepticism as well...

JohnInCarolina

Botch said:

alaskanassasin said:

JohnInCarolina said:
But if you look at who is choosing not to get vaccinated, the differences between people who self identify as either Democrat or Republican are fairly stark.  

 What are you basing that on?

 
If you type "Vaccinations by Political Party" into Googles Images, you can see all kinds of comparisons.  I'm thinking the above is a bit old, I don't think the numbers are that stark now since Delta arrived.  

All you really have to do is to look at the current hot spots for covid.  They have a fairly unique political trend. 

There was a recent study that compared vaccination rates in states to the percentage of voters who voted for Biden or Trump.  It's practically a straight line.   

alaskanassasin

@JohnInCarolina I don’t understand how you don’t see the hypocrisy your statements. If you flipped over to a different channel get a whole different set of facts

JohnInCarolina

alaskanassasin said:

@JohnInCarolina I don’t understand how you don’t see the hypocrisy your statements. If you flipped over to a different channel get a whole different set of facts

What the heLL are you talking about?  I don't watch cable news.  

Lit

JohnInCarolina said:

alaskanassasin said:

@JohnInCarolina I don’t understand how you don’t see the hypocrisy your statements. If you flipped over to a different channel get a whole different set of facts

What the heLL are you talking about?  I don't watch cable news.  

We know. You get all your info from memes.

JohnInCarolina

@alaskanassasin -  I would hope you would agree that state vaccination rates, info that is publicly available, are facts that are not in dispute, right?