OT - Renaming Austin, Tx .... Looking for suggestions

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

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TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should remove all names from all cities and just number them. Same for streets. Can't get all butthurt can you when the address is 1375 4th Street, City # 6, Texas? Hope everybody can count really high. 

How about we just don't name public places for people that are *primarily* known as killers of jews, slavers, fascists, traitors and child molesters, and just leave everything else the way it is?

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

I agree, and I think 90 percent of everyone agree with that, and we're making a big deal out of some exploratory study that we all know won't be realized, and then some will project that thinking on an entire block of society and be enraged, even though it is displaced, and nothing good but divisiveness and hate will result.

The reason something like this will not work is because today there is no middle ground. Well there is a middle ground but those of us in the middle have allowed the extremes of both sides to be the voices. 

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should remove all names from all cities and just number them. Same for streets. Can't get all butthurt can you when the address is 1375 4th Street, City # 6, Texas? Hope everybody can count really high. 

How about we just don't name public places for people that are *primarily* known as killers of jews, slavers, fascists, traitors and child molesters, and just leave everything else the way it is?

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

I agree, and I think 90 percent of everyone agree with that, and we're making a big deal out of some exploratory study that we all know won't be realized, and then some will project that thinking on an entire block of society and be enraged, even though it is displaced, and nothing good but divisiveness and hate will result.

The reason something like this will not work is because today there is no middle ground. Well there is a middle ground but those of us in the middle have allowed the extremes of both sides to be the voices. 

I, sir, do not stand for extremism.

JohnInCarolina

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should remove all names from all cities and just number them. Same for streets. Can't get all butthurt can you when the address is 1375 4th Street, City # 6, Texas? Hope everybody can count really high. 

How about we just don't name public places for people that are *primarily* known as killers of jews, slavers, fascists, traitors and child molesters, and just leave everything else the way it is?

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

nolaegghead

Problem is, people against removing the "Hitler" iconism from public view, here, argue that that's the "History" and there's a slippery slope that is insanely unrealistic but convinces small minded people we should be hanging on to our statues of monsters.

TEXASBGE2018

show previous quotes

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

Sure. But you must have overlooked what I said. In today’s society just renaming a school isn’t far enough for some and they are the ones yelling the loudest. They want to remove things from history books and they want to remove items from museums because they got their feelings hurt. Not because they have any clue who Stephen F Austin even was. For some the renaming of the school or the city is step 1 of their ultimate goal. I’m saying you are rationalizing your opinion under the assumption that this country is filled with intelligent people. Our country is filled with people who care more about what Kim Kardashian was wearing today than they do about reading about the history of fascism or socialism. 

JohnInCarolina

TEXASBGE2018 said:

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Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

Sure. But you must have overlooked what I said. In today’s society just renaming a school isn’t far enough for some and they are the ones yelling the loudest. They want to remove things from history books and they want to remove items from museums because they got their feelings hurt. Not because they have any clue who Stephen F Austin even was. For some the renaming of the school or the city is step 1 of their ultimate goal. I’m saying you are rationalizing your opinion under the assumption that this country is filled with intelligent people. Our country is filled with people who care more about what Kim Kardashian was wearing today than they do about reading about the history of fascism or socialism. 

Yeah I’m just not all that sympathetic to the argument that we shouldn’t do anything about the racists because it’s a slippery slope from them to anyone who ever hurt anyone else’s feelings.  I just don’t find the argument all that credible.   

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

Problem is, people against removing the "Hitler" iconism from public view, here, argue that that's the "History" and there's a slippery slope that is insanely unrealistic but convinces small minded people we should be hanging on to our statues of monsters.

Just curious. So are you ok with Jackson Square? That’s in your backyard. Isn’t there a huge Andrew Jackson statue in the center? Are you down there every weekend protesting it’s name and existence demanding it be changed? He was a giant slave owner. One of the largest in the history of the south I believe.

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

(1) Sure. But you must have overlooked what I said. In today’s society just renaming a school isn’t far enough for some and they are the ones yelling the loudest.

(1.1) They want to remove things from history books and they want to remove items from museums because they got their feelings hurt.

(2) Not because they have any clue who Stephen F Austin even was. For some the renaming of the school or the city is step 1 of their ultimate goal. I’m saying you are rationalizing your opinion under the assumption that this country is filled with intelligent people.

(3) Our country is filled with people who care more about what Kim Kardashian was wearing today than they do about reading about the history of fascism or socialism. 

(1) Ignore people yelling the loudest.

(1.1) Yes, people want to revise history, but in this country they are not the same people who want civil war racist stuff torn down.  They are the ultra-conservative faction that has taken control of the Texas school system where they gloss over slavery and Betsy Devoses of the world that want to turn public school systems into parochial educations run by conservative corporations.

(2) Intelligence of populace, or the lack of, is less important than ideology.  Education and ideology are not compatible without indoctrination.

(3) Sadly true.  See picture below.

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

Problem is, people against removing the "Hitler" iconism from public view, here, argue that that's the "History" and there's a slippery slope that is insanely unrealistic but convinces small minded people we should be hanging on to our statues of monsters.

Just curious. So are you ok with Jackson Square? That’s in your backyard. Isn’t there a huge Andrew Jackson statue in the center? Are you down there every weekend protesting it’s name and existence demanding it be changed? He was a giant slave owner. One of the largest in the history of the south I believe.

I fully support what Mitch Landrieu did.  I'm not out there protesting but I voice my support on pulling down these symbols that were put up during the Jim Crow law era by racists and literally the KKK to perpetuate an apartheid (or worse) society.  And our city is majority black.

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

show previous quotes

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

(1) Sure. But you must have overlooked what I said. In today’s society just renaming a school isn’t far enough for some and they are the ones yelling the loudest.

(1.1) They want to remove things from history books and they want to remove items from museums because they got their feelings hurt.

(2) Not because they have any clue who Stephen F Austin even was. For some the renaming of the school or the city is step 1 of their ultimate goal. I’m saying you are rationalizing your opinion under the assumption that this country is filled with intelligent people.

(3) Our country is filled with people who care more about what Kim Kardashian was wearing today than they do about reading about the history of fascism or socialism. 

(1) Ignore people yelling the loudest.

(1.1) Yes, people want to revise history, but in this country they are not the same people who want civil war racist stuff torn down.  They are the ultra-conservative faction that has taken control of the Texas school system where they gloss over slavery and Betsy Devoses of the world that want to turn public school systems into parochial educations run by conservative corporations.

(2) Intelligence of populace, or the lack of, is less important than ideology.  Education and ideology are not compatible without indoctrination.

(3) Sadly true.  See picture below.

Man if you think the Texas School system is conservative you haven’t lived here and had kids attend our schools. They aren’t remotely conservative. Yes the people wanting the racist  civil war stuff torn down are the extremists on the left leaning side. The ones protesting them staying are the extremist right. The middle of the road folks don’t care because they look at them for what they are. Pieces of granite with a story to tell. A story that should never be repeated. There are very few statues that I know of that are blatantly and flamboyantly praising slave owners or Hitler. We had one here taken down and the park was renamed. People for the most part are pissed about it and say exactly what I did. That it will cause future generations to forget that person and what they did. Which is as you said a slippery slope. 

nolaegghead

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

JohnInCarolina

I just don't understand the argument that the only way to remember slavery is to maintain statues glorifying confederates.  

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

There are no Hitler high schools in Germany.  Somehow they’ve managed to avoid having another one rise up.

The US is really one of the only countries that insists on keeping statues of people who were literally traitors.  

Nobody is saying we have to forget the history.  We have history books and museums for that.  Just don’t glorify the aholes in the public square.  I don’t think it’s really all that hard to accomplish.  

(1) Sure. But you must have overlooked what I said. In today’s society just renaming a school isn’t far enough for some and they are the ones yelling the loudest.

(1.1) They want to remove things from history books and they want to remove items from museums because they got their feelings hurt.

(2) Not because they have any clue who Stephen F Austin even was. For some the renaming of the school or the city is step 1 of their ultimate goal. I’m saying you are rationalizing your opinion under the assumption that this country is filled with intelligent people.

(3) Our country is filled with people who care more about what Kim Kardashian was wearing today than they do about reading about the history of fascism or socialism. 

(1) Ignore people yelling the loudest.

(1.1) Yes, people want to revise history, but in this country they are not the same people who want civil war racist stuff torn down.  They are the ultra-conservative faction that has taken control of the Texas school system where they gloss over slavery and Betsy Devoses of the world that want to turn public school systems into parochial educations run by conservative corporations.

(2) Intelligence of populace, or the lack of, is less important than ideology.  Education and ideology are not compatible without indoctrination.

(3) Sadly true.  See picture below.

Man if you think the Texas School system is conservative you haven’t lived here and had kids attend our schools. They aren’t remotely conservative. Yes the people wanting the racist  civil war stuff torn down are the extremists on the left leaning side. The ones protesting them staying are the extremist right. The middle of the road folks don’t care because they look at them for what they are. Pieces of granite with a story to tell. A story that should never be repeated. There are very few statues that I know of that are blatantly and flamboyantly praising slave owners or Hitler. We had one here taken down and the park was renamed. People for the most part are pissed about it and say exactly what I did. That it will cause future generations to forget that person and what they did. Which is as you said a slippery slope. 

No.  I went to high school there, my mom was a teacher that retired from their school system.  I know what has been, what is, and what people want it to be.  Did you go to school there?  It was not a bad school system, but it recently has had some serious problems.  I would be happy to talk to you about this if you haven't followed the news.   PM me your phone number and a convenient time to talk.  I know all about this from an objective perspective, and I think you have an extreme one.  We can fix this with some information. 

nolaegghead

I went to college there too, btw.

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

show previous quotes

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

Problem is, people against removing the "Hitler" iconism from public view, here, argue that that's the "History" and there's a slippery slope that is insanely unrealistic but convinces small minded people we should be hanging on to our statues of monsters.

Just curious. So are you ok with Jackson Square? That’s in your backyard. Isn’t there a huge Andrew Jackson statue in the center? Are you down there every weekend protesting it’s name and existence demanding it be changed? He was a giant slave owner. One of the largest in the history of the south I believe.

I fully support what Mitch Landrieu did.  I'm not out there protesting but I voice my support on pulling down these symbols that were put up during the Jim Crow law era by racists and literally the KKK to perpetuate an apartheid (or worse) society.  And our city is majority black.

So I’m curious was that decision decided upon by the voters or was it what he personally felt was right? If Austin wants to rename itself, they can pay 100% of the cost. Not 1 dime of tax payer money should pay for it if it’s not voted on and passed by a majority of voters. If a handful of bureaucrats want to do what their morals say is the best thing to do then they can fund it privately every dime. I will actually even say also that it should be on the statewide ballot considering that it’s our state capital. 

nolaegghead

JohnInCarolina said:

I just don't understand the argument that the only way to remember slavery is to maintain statues glorifying confederates.  

Statues are fine in museums.  Pro-tip, John, that's not what they really mean, history.

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

show previous quotes

JohnInCarolina said:

I just don't understand the argument that the only way to remember slavery is to maintain statues glorifying confederates.  

Statues are fine in museums.  Pro-tip, John, that's not what they really mean, history.

I should have added "in the public square."  I don't have any problem moving them to the interior of a history museum, especially one on slavery.  

nolaegghead

@ALLCAPSGUY

Please read this as a starting point before you contact me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Education_Agency#Curriculum_controversies

And then follow up on it through some news searches, look at the references, etc. 

JohnInCarolina

I'm guessing that most people in Texas do not believe their public schools are all that conservative, just like most people in California do not believe their public schools are all that liberal.  Confirmation bias for the win.  

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

Problem is, people against removing the "Hitler" iconism from public view, here, argue that that's the "History" and there's a slippery slope that is insanely unrealistic but convinces small minded people we should be hanging on to our statues of monsters.

Just curious. So are you ok with Jackson Square? That’s in your backyard. Isn’t there a huge Andrew Jackson statue in the center? Are you down there every weekend protesting it’s name and existence demanding it be changed? He was a giant slave owner. One of the largest in the history of the south I believe.

I fully support what Mitch Landrieu did.  I'm not out there protesting but I voice my support on pulling down these symbols that were put up during the Jim Crow law era by racists and literally the KKK to perpetuate an apartheid (or worse) society.  And our city is majority black.

So I’m curious was that decision decided upon by the voters or was it what he personally felt was right? If Austin wants to rename itself, they can pay 100% of the cost. Not 1 dime of tax payer money should pay for it if it’s not voted on and passed by a majority of voters. If a handful of bureaucrats want to do what their morals say is the best thing to do then they can fund it privately every dime. I will actually even say also that it should be on the statewide ballot considering that it’s our state capital. 

Why such a big deal for something that isn't a road that you drive on or a service for all people?  You vote for politicians to make decisions for you.  Why would you care about it so much?  One Downs Syndrome child uses more public money than taking down a stupid statue during his whole life.  Let me tell you I get the sneaky feeling you're telegraphing something, can't put my finger on what it is exactly....hmmmm....hmmmmm

TEXASBGE2018

nolaegghead said:

@ALLCAPSGUY

Please read this as a starting point before you contact me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Education_Agency#Curriculum_controversies

And then follow up on it through some news searches, look at the references, etc. 

Dude I have a spouse who works In education here currently in administrative roles and spent my entire life inside the texas school system. I went to the University of Texas. My mother worked in the school systems here for 30 years. It’s not conservative. You cite a couple articles that support your narrative and you assume that’s it. I’m done have a nice night fellas.

JohnInCarolina

ALLCAPS OUT

nolaegghead

TEXASBGE2018 said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

@ALLCAPSGUY

Please read this as a starting point before you contact me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Education_Agency#Curriculum_controversies

And then follow up on it through some news searches, look at the references, etc. 

Dude I have a spouse who works In education here currently and spent my entire life inside the texas school system. I went to the University of Texas. My mother worked in the school systems here. It’s not conservative. You cite a couple articles that support your narrative and you assume that’s it. I’m done have a nice night fellas.

You aren't understanding me.  I said it was a good system but the crazy movement that you're talking about is working to turn it into an intelligent design, revisionist-history system.  F*ck, read what I say, not what you think I say.

nolaegghead

@TEXASCAPS2018 (drops mike, hits toe, screams like lil ****, runs off stage right)

dmchicago

nolaegghead said:

show previous quotes

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should remove all names from all cities and just number them. Same for streets. Can't get all butthurt can you when the address is 1375 4th Street, City # 6, Texas? Hope everybody can count really high. 

How about we just don't name public places for people that are *primarily* known as killers of jews, slavers, fascists, traitors and child molesters, and just leave everything else the way it is?

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

I agree, and I think 90 percent of everyone agree with that, and we're making a big deal out of some exploratory study that we all know won't be realized, and then some will project that thinking on an entire block of society and be enraged, even though it is displaced, and nothing good but divisiveness and hate will result.

The reason something like this will not work is because today there is no middle ground. Well there is a middle ground but those of us in the middle have allowed the extremes of both sides to be the voices. 

I, sir, do not stand for extremism.

Without exception?

nolaegghead

dmchicago said:

show previous quotes

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

nolaegghead said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should remove all names from all cities and just number them. Same for streets. Can't get all butthurt can you when the address is 1375 4th Street, City # 6, Texas? Hope everybody can count really high. 

How about we just don't name public places for people that are *primarily* known as killers of jews, slavers, fascists, traitors and child molesters, and just leave everything else the way it is?

Because in todays world for some people that's not far enough. Good intentions can and will be taken advantage of often. Its been said a ton and its cliché but "Those who forget history are bound to repeat it." Sure maybe a name change of a city doesn't cause a genocide. Maybe taking a statue down doesn't either.  But given the general ignorance of todays society. If you start revising history and shunning the unfortunate parts of it to the shadows. Eventually you get another Hitler or Mao. So maybe instead of changing the name of a city because mob rule of the day says so. Maybe teach people that what those people did was horrific and wrong and should never be repeated. But also that the challenges in changing something like an enormous city on a whim is also time consuming, costly, and doesn't change the fact that those people existed.

I agree, and I think 90 percent of everyone agree with that, and we're making a big deal out of some exploratory study that we all know won't be realized, and then some will project that thinking on an entire block of society and be enraged, even though it is displaced, and nothing good but divisiveness and hate will result.

The reason something like this will not work is because today there is no middle ground. Well there is a middle ground but those of us in the middle have allowed the extremes of both sides to be the voices. 

I, sir, do not stand for extremism.

Without exception?

Exceptions made as sarcasm, hyperbole and trolling.  I try to stay in the public discourse using the Overton Window.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Any thoughts I have that are outside those parameters I will keep to myself and accept any bending towards the correct direction pursuant to my impression of sane policy, based on history, science, statistics, academia and other progressive means of information on public policy.

(disclaimer:  magic and other forces, both conceived as dark or light have no bearing on my decisions nor influences on my thought processes. )

WesJohnson

JohnInCarolina said:

ALLCAPS OUT

Would you shaddup? You're like that yappy dog in Looney Tunes that follows the big dog around tryin' to stroke his ego for approval. Let @nolaegghead handle himself, he's doing just fine without your commentary. If your posts were clever or witty I wouldn't care, but they're not. 

nolaegghead

JIC is my troll account.

nolaegghead

...and my troll account has troll accounts.  How fkd up is that?!

nolaegghead

and nolaegghead is RRP's troll account.  FYI