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OT: Ok Bread Guru's, Now What OT

lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
I'm ready to do my first loaf with my starter.....My head is swimming with Recipe Input Overload...........Does anyone have a Readers Digest Version of a Simple Sourdough.........PLEASE Type Slow as do not read very fast....Thank In Advance
Visalia, Ca
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Comments

  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 26,709
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 3,564
    Easy Peasy Bread:

    I would start this in the AM on a day when you will be around the house all day. Maybe a Saturday morning?

    Weigh 400 grams of bread flour. Add it to a large mixing bowl.
    Weigh 8 grams of salt. Add to the flour and mix.
    Weigh 300 grams of purified water. Add it to the flour and salt.
    Mix this into a shaggy lump. Don't knead or get fussy. Cover and let it sit for one hour.

    After an hour - 
    Weigh 80-90 grams of active, and happy starter. Add this to the mixture above.
    Knead this for about 10 minutes. I use this method: Mixing wet dough

    Put the dough into a bowl and cover with plastic or a plate or something. Turn (or fold) the dough every 30 minutes for 2 hours (4 turns) like in the video above. After that turn (fold) the dough once every hour. 

    Take this time to feed your starter and clean up your mother jar.

    My bread usually takes 6 hours to rise well. You are looking for a 50% rise or so - not double like with commercial yeast. When you think it's ready shape the loaf. Shaping is an acquired skill so don't let it get to you if it seems difficult. This is a great video. Use more flour than he did the first few times - trust me.

    Dust a banneton generously with rice flour. Add the dough. Put it into a 2 gallon Ziplock. Stick it in the refrigerator. Bake in 12 to 24 hours - whenever it's convenient. 

    Here's a video for slashing the dough and baking. Video Just watch the whole thing. The slashing and baking are at the end.

    Happy Baking!
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven.
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    Thanks @nolaegghead and @SciAggie
    Visalia, Ca
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    Listen to @SciAggie. I'm sure you've seen pics of his bread in the bread thread. 

    The only thing I would add is to factor in the temp of your kitchen. Our house is on the warm side, so the bulk rise takes 4hrs or so for me. Keeping an eye on when it rises by 50% or so would be a better guide, as mentioned by @SciAggie

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    Thanks @caliking ;
    Visalia, Ca
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    edited March 25
    Thanks for all the input, not a total fail but for the first go...need to get it to puff up more
    Second one that I out no effort into looks better..proofed this on in a bowl, stuck and came out in a blob , through it in anyway



    Visalia, Ca
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    Those are not bad looking loaves at all. Get the butter out and dig in!


    Did you use a floured kitchen towel in the bowl? That will help if you don't have a banneton. 

    And if you provide some details here or in the other bread thread, folks can help out with ironing out the kinks. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    edited March 25
    caliking said:
    Those are not bad looking loaves at all. Get the butter out and dig in!


    Did you use a floured kitchen towel in the bowl? That will help if you don't have a banneton. 

    And if you provide some details here or in the other bread thread, folks can help out with ironing out the kinks. 
    @caliking just the bowl , know not to do that again..I did use a bannaton on the first one ....I think I got lost after the last folding, I went right in to shaping. Think I was supposed to proof then shape then final proof?  ....also, my starter , though very bubbly and active, did not really float...I used it anyway...maybe I should have waited till it floated or I caught it on the dowmside
    Visalia, Ca
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 3,564
    Hey, that’s a great effort. Here’s a pic of some of my first loaves - they are almost identical. 
    Just keep baking. I bet your loaves taste great. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven.
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    SciAggie said:
    Hey, that’s a great effort. Here’s a pic of some of my first loaves - they are almost identical. 
    Just keep baking. I bet your loaves taste great. 
    Thanks @SciAggie for the positive feedback !
    Visalia, Ca
  • Tarpon65Tarpon65 Posts: 173
    Those loaves look great.  I just fed my San Francisco and Ischia starters to keep them happy.  Sourdough pancakes are pretty darn good as well if you've never made them.
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    Thanks @Tarpon65 I have a dried SF starter I may just get going...I am very happy with the flavor of the bread, just not the " pop" ( for a lack o better words) that is my goal....something tells me I will be doing this several times a week til I nail it 
    Visalia, Ca
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    edited March 25
    Just cut the second loaf
    Visalia, Ca
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    edited March 25
    @lkapigian rest assured that your first loaves turned out waaayyy better than my first loaves :)

    Generally, after the bulk ferment ( including folds), you shape, then proof for a few hours on the counter or overnight for 12-24hrs in the fridge, then bake. Just painting broad strokes here. The nitty gritty details will get worked out later.

     Underproofed dough springs right back when you poke it. Overproofed dough won't really spring back. You know it's just right, when you poke it and the indentation fills in within a few secs, but not completely. 

    I don't even check if my starter floats or not. If it's been fed within a week or so, I consider it good to go. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    caliking said:
    @lkapigian rest assured that your first loaves turned out waaayyy better than my first loaves :)

    Generally, after the bulk ferment ( including folds), you shape, then proof for a few hours on the counter or overnight for 12-24hrs in the fridge, then bake. Just painting broad strokes here. The nitty gritty details will get worked out later.

     Underproofed dough springs right back when you poke it. Overproofed dough won't really spring back. You know it's just right, when you poke it and the indentation fills in within a few secs, but not completely. 

    I don't even check if my starter floats or not. If it's been fed within a week or so, I consider it good to go. 
    Thanks so much @caliking , that's what I'm,missing is to know when its proofed right...gunning thing is the second loaf I just tossed in as a blob and I was very happy with it
    Visalia, Ca
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 3,564
    To chime in again - shaping is a skill that just develops over time - at least it did for me. Your loaves will flatten less and have a higher spring as you improve. Watch the shaping videos over and over. You’ll say, “I swear I did that but my loaves didn’t turn out.” Then one day - boom! - a great loaf. You won’t know what you did differently, but it will just work better all of a sudden. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven.
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    edited March 25
    SciAggie said:
    To chime in again - shaping is a skill that just develops over time - at least it did for me. Your loaves will flatten less and have a higher spring as you improve. Watch the shaping videos over and over. You’ll say, “I swear I did that but my loaves didn’t turn out.” Then one day - boom! - a great loaf. You won’t know what you did differently, but it will just work better all of a sudden. 
    Thanks @SciAggie ,so shaped well ( tight top) = good spring ? Also, what flour mix do you use...or does it vary?
    Visalia, Ca
  • 20stone20stone Posts: 1,481
    lkapigian said:
    I'm ready to do my first loaf with my starter.....My head is swimming with Recipe Input Overload...........Does anyone have a Readers Digest Version of a Simple Sourdough.........PLEASE Type Slow as do not read very fast....Thank In Advance
    lkap - That was a great first effort (and better than many people's later efforts).

    You are getting great advice from @caliking and @SciAggie, so I won't pile on.  I will, however, give one decent tip -- get a notebook to keep in your baking pantry or cookbook case, and write down every bake, including the recipe, how long the proofs went, and how it turned out.  You will find that it is much easier to tweak if you know what you did last time, and it will give you more confidence to improvise (either driven by desire or less of a certain type of flour than you thought you had).

    Here is an example of what I do (note - PDC is Forkish's Pain de Campagne)





    LBGE since 2008 and a MM from 2016
    Karubeque C-60 Dishwasher (when time is no object)
    Owner of multiple large scale refrigeration devices (sometimes too many)
    Vertically integrated BBQ and charcuterie operator, for recreational use only
    Elicitor of secrets from goats through unconventional methods
    Sourdough bread enthusiast

    Houston, TX

  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    20stone said:
    lkapigian said:
    I'm ready to do my first loaf with my starter.....My head is swimming with Recipe Input Overload...........Does anyone have a Readers Digest Version of a Simple Sourdough.........PLEASE Type Slow as do not read very fast....Thank In Advance
    lkap - That was a great first effort (and better than many people's later efforts).

    You are getting great advice from @caliking and @SciAggie, so I won't pile on.  I will, however, give one decent tip -- get a notebook to keep in your baking pantry or cookbook case, and write down every bake, including the recipe, how long the proofs went, and how it turned out.  You will find that it is much easier to tweak if you know what you did last time, and it will give you more confidence to improvise (either driven by desire or less of a certain type of flour than you thought you had).

    Here is an example of what I do (note - PDC is Forkish's Pain de Campagne)





    Thanks @20stone, my note taking skills lack,like with my sausage I take notes and forget to label...I find this forum is my notebook...Thank you for the positive feedback
    Visalia, Ca
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    +1 for the tip about keeping a log. It helps me make sense of my muddled thoughts, and to keep track of what worked in the past. And what didn’t. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 26,709
    caliking said:
    +1 for the tip about keeping a log. It helps me make sense of my muddled thoughts, and to keep track of what worked in the past. And what didn’t. 
    writing stuff down is cheating.  You need to do it enough so intuition is strong enough to be consistent.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    Sign me up as a  cheater then. Until I give up my day job.

    Besides, writing stuff down has served humanity well through the ages :smiley:  

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • 20stone20stone Posts: 1,481
    caliking said:
    +1 for the tip about keeping a log. It helps me make sense of my muddled thoughts, and to keep track of what worked in the past. And what didn’t. 
    writing stuff down is cheating.  You need to do it enough so intuition is strong enough to be consistent.
    Fair point, but since I have a brain like a steel colander, and only bake once a week, it’ll have to do. 
    LBGE since 2008 and a MM from 2016
    Karubeque C-60 Dishwasher (when time is no object)
    Owner of multiple large scale refrigeration devices (sometimes too many)
    Vertically integrated BBQ and charcuterie operator, for recreational use only
    Elicitor of secrets from goats through unconventional methods
    Sourdough bread enthusiast

    Houston, TX

  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    Ok, @nolaegghead @SciAggie @20stone @caliking any good go to recipe for the days you are not there to fold every 1/2 hour? IE mix it in the AM or Night then bake when you get up or home?
    Visalia, Ca
  • 20stone20stone Posts: 1,481
    lkapigian said:
    Ok, @nolaegghead @SciAggie @20stone @caliking any good go to recipe for the days you are not there to fold every 1/2 hour? IE mix it in the AM or Night then bake when you get up or home?
    The fold only takes an hour (levain night before, AM autolyse for 20, mix, fold, fold).

    The pan du campagne recipe I posted gets some kick from commercial starter, and the final is only 2-3 hours, so you can mix in the AM, shape in the evening, and bake that night.
    LBGE since 2008 and a MM from 2016
    Karubeque C-60 Dishwasher (when time is no object)
    Owner of multiple large scale refrigeration devices (sometimes too many)
    Vertically integrated BBQ and charcuterie operator, for recreational use only
    Elicitor of secrets from goats through unconventional methods
    Sourdough bread enthusiast

    Houston, TX

  • kwdickertkwdickert Posts: 307
    I did a sourdough bread a year ago. Exact same thing happened to me. It just didn't rise like i expected. Got about half as tall as expected but was so good!
    Memphis TN - Large Green Egg
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    A couple of folds is usually good enough. So fold every 30mins for the first hour or two and call it done .

    As you get the hang of it, you can try more folds for better structure later on.


    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • lkapigianlkapigian Posts: 3,009
    Visalia, Ca
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 11,128
    And FWIW, I don't add the commercial yeast that Forkish calls for in some recipes. Bread turns out fine without it.

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 3,564
    Sure. There are times I’ll make the dough early and not fold. It doesn’t develop quite the same structure, but it tastes just fine. You can add more or less starter to tweak how long it takes to rise. Que the note taking...
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven.
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
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