Sanctions

HeavyG

LOL

paqman

That’s a slow Friday night...

thetrim

Do North Korean hoohahs really go sideways?

Botch

Let's stand in Kim's shoes for a moment, if nothing else, to stir the pot.
 
- Years ago, the leader of the Last Remaining Superpower announces that your country, plus Iraq, and Iran, are an "Axis of Evil".
- That Superpower then demands that Iraq cease their nuclear program.  They claim to do so, and let in inspectors.
- That Superpower then invades Iraq, and crushes the regime and the infrastructure, kills their leader, to eliminate all the "weapons of mass destruction".
- No such weapons were ever found.
- That Superpower then demands that Khadafi (sp?) cease HIS nuclear program in Libya.  He does so.
- Khadafi's regime is toppled and he is killed.  Not directly by the Last Remaining Superpower, but with an assist.
- Iran is forced to cease its nuclear program.  They comply.  The new "leader" of the Last Remaining Superpower threatens to negate the multi-national agreement, even though that "leader's" own Secretary of State confirms that Iran is living up to the multi-national agreement.  Threats continue to rain.
 
Now, back to my original statement in this post: you're standing in Kim's shoes.  
 
What would YOU do?  Succumb to the Last Remaining Superpower's demands, only to be destroyed, or rush development of the only Club you may have?  
 
Think about it.  

HeavyG

@Botch is absolutely right. The North Koreans have quite logical reasons to hate the USA given their experience of what happened during the (unfinished) Korean War and American actions against many other nations in the following decades.

The language that DOTUS is using just feeds right into that narrative. It's like we have a symbiotic relationship with the DPRK. The Kim "monarchy" needs us to continue being belligerent to feed their ongoing instilling of fear in their citizens and we need the Kim "monarchy" to behave the way they do in order to justify continued military expenditures and the stoking of fear in our own country.

Wolfpack

Going to go a little over the top here on a bourbon fueled comment but get real...


Of course the man is totally logical. Has his brother assassinated, blows up anyone who disagrees with anti aircraft guns, treats his ordinary citizens worse than we treat stray cats.

He hates America because he is irrelevant and jealous. While he might be a big deal in his country, he is tired of being a flea on a dog on the world stage. He has people kissing his butt all day so they don't get killed and his ego has gone out of kilter. The man is crazy- don't try to rationalize his decisions. 

You boys need to stop apologizing for being American-  our forefathers kicked some tail so you would grow a pair. 

While we are far from perfect and continue to have serious internal struggles, when it matters America has made a career of standing up for the downtrodden and not taking bs from bullies and tyrants. I would hope we continue to do that. 


Hate getting sucked into the Friday night festivities- carry on. 

nolaegghead

Anus?

Wolfpack

Yep

HeavyG

Wolfpack said:

Going to go a little over the top here on a bourbon fueled comment but get real...


Of course the man is totally logical. Has his brother assassinated, blows up anyone who disagrees with anti aircraft guns, treats his ordinary citizens worse than we treat stray cats.

He hates America because he is irrelevant and jealous. While he might be a big deal in his country, he is tired of being a flea on a dog on the world stage. He has people kissing his butt all day so they don't get killed and his ego has gone out of kilter. The man is crazy- don't try to rationalize his decisions. 

You boys need to stop apologizing for being American...

Apologizing???

I'm guessing you're in the same camp as @RRP who believes that anyone that doesn't like/support Trump obviously HATES AMERICA. 

Trying to understand the roots of a complex problem is not the same thing as apologizing. I understand tho that many folks will always have that "America love it or leave it" attitude and that any examination/opinions of American actions that doesn't jibe with their views means one is therefore a traitor, or commie, or blah, blah, blah.

Enjoy your bourbon.

Eoin

This is not about North Korea as a country, it's about the ruling dynasty and associated hangers on. We've seen it before through sanctions, corruption or inompetence - an economically ruined country can still support a comfortable life for those in power. If KJU has a ruthless security system at home (he does) and a military able to inflict pain that we cannot accept (he does, and nukes ramp it up to the next level) then he can go on for decades. Sanctions will hurt the North Korean people most, those who are already suffering. 

I don't think increased sanctions will achieve anything in the short to medium term, it's continuing the previous failed policy and not addressing the cause of the problem.

KJU is there to stay. With nukes.

Botch

Wolfpack said:

Of course the man is totally logical. Has his brother assassinated, blows up anyone who disagrees with anti aircraft guns, treats his ordinary citizens worse than we treat stray cats.

He hates America because he is irrelevant and jealous. While he might be a big deal in his country, he is tired of being a flea on a dog on the world stage. He has people kissing his butt all day so they don't get killed and his ego has gone out of kilter. The man is crazy- don't try to rationalize his decisions. 

You boys need to stop apologizing for being American-  our forefathers kicked some tail so you would grow a pair. 

While we are far from perfect and continue to have serious internal struggles, when it matters America has made a career of standing up for the downtrodden and not taking bs from bullies and tyrants. I would hope we continue to do that. 

I'm not apologizing for being an American, nor do I disagree that KJU is a ruthless and paranoid dictator; I'm trying to point out that, to understand your enemy, sometimes you should look at what's going on through their eyes.
 
- Scott "Botch" Boettcher, Captain, United States Air Force Retired

Woodchunk

Bring meat, dumpster fire

JohnInCarolina

bgebrent said:

@JohninCarolina.  President doing the right thing.

Sorry.  Not up for it today.  Going to enjoy the beautiful fall weather here in NC.

thetrim

Nice job, John, keeping politics outta your firebox!

JohnInCarolina

GrillSgt

GrillSgt

On a serious note I do like putting the screws to the banks and multi-nationals that are doing business with NK. If this forces China to come to their rescue that's on them. 

Dobie

Botch said:

Wolfpack said:

Of course the man is totally logical. Has his brother assassinated, blows up anyone who disagrees with anti aircraft guns, treats his ordinary citizens worse than we treat stray cats.

He hates America because he is irrelevant and jealous. While he might be a big deal in his country, he is tired of being a flea on a dog on the world stage. He has people kissing his butt all day so they don't get killed and his ego has gone out of kilter. The man is crazy- don't try to rationalize his decisions. 

You boys need to stop apologizing for being American-  our forefathers kicked some tail so you would grow a pair. 

While we are far from perfect and continue to have serious internal struggles, when it matters America has made a career of standing up for the downtrodden and not taking bs from bullies and tyrants. I would hope we continue to do that. 

I'm not apologizing for being an American, nor do I disagree that KJU is a ruthless and paranoid dictator; I'm trying to point out that, to understand your enemy, sometimes you should look at what's going on through their eyes.
 
- Scott "Botch" Boettcher, Captain, United States Air Force Retired

@Botch first thank you for your service.

Next let me say I don't study politics or military history so bear with me.
Do you believe you really know what KJU is thinking? He was born into the isolated ruthless, amoral life he lives, how could we actually relate? Can you really stand in his shoes? Next do you believe the US disarms countries only to topple them afterwards and if so to what gain? 

fishlessman

we should wait til kju can nuke 7.5 billion before even thinking about taking him down

Eoin

Dobie said:

.......... Next do you believe the US disarms countries only to topple them afterwards and if so to what gain? 

The view of US foreign policy outside of the US is a lot different to the view that you have from inside.

DoubleEgger

Eoin said:

Dobie said:

.......... Next do you believe the US disarms countries only to topple them afterwards and if so to what gain? 

The view of US foreign policy outside of the US is a lot different to the view that you have from inside.

After the worst showings since the 40s in yesterday's German elections, it appears that German's are growing tired of the European  liberal status quo. 

fishlessman

on the outside looking in,  only tried that once

https://player.vimeo.com/video/48971897

Eoin

DoubleEgger said:

Eoin said:

Dobie said:

.......... Next do you believe the US disarms countries only to topple them afterwards and if so to what gain? 

The view of US foreign policy outside of the US is a lot different to the view that you have from inside.

After the worst showings since the 40s in yesterday's German elections, it appears that German's are growing tired of the European  liberal status quo. 

13.5 % for the hard right. They are a very long way from power. 

My foreign policy point wasn't a liberal one, the US has a history under many presidents of interfering in other countries, so people like KJU do have reason to be worried, murderous dictator or not. Take the Middle East and Trump (and Obama before him) having a go at Iran and telling them to be more democratic. Iran has a democracy of sorts, unlike Saudi, which has none at all. You don't see US presidents taking a dig at Saudi while signing multi billion dollar arms contracts. 

Acn

Eoin said:

DoubleEgger said:

Eoin said:

Dobie said:

.......... Next do you believe the US disarms countries only to topple them afterwards and if so to what gain? 

The view of US foreign policy outside of the US is a lot different to the view that you have from inside.

After the worst showings since the 40s in yesterday's German elections, it appears that German's are growing tired of the European  liberal status quo. 

13.5 % for the hard right. They are a very long way from power. 

My foreign policy point wasn't a liberal one, the US has a history under many presidents of interfering in other countries, so people like KJU do have reason to be worried, murderous dictator or not. Take the Middle East and Trump (and Obama before him) having a go at Iran and telling them to be more democratic. Iran has a democracy of sorts, unlike Saudi, which has none at all. You don't see US presidents taking a dig at Saudi while signing multi billion dollar arms contracts. 

And Iran used to have a real democracy until the US assassinated their prime minister.

YukonRon

Why not drop about 20 million smart phones, pre loaded with the outside world information with one touch calling all over North Korea.

Have them loaded with images, videos, and information on the rest of the world, and how we live.

That information will bring down regimes that exist solely by the oppression of their own people.

Expensive? Try rehabilitation of a country and its people after a nuclear strike.

Who knows, it may come to that anyway.

fishlessman

england has a history  of interfering in other countries just so you know, a view from the outside looking in

HeavyG

fishlessman said:

england has a history  of interfering in other countries just so you know, a view from the outside looking in

True, but their overseas "adventures" are not nearly as recent and ongoing as ours.

Kayak

"Why not drop about 20 million smart phones, pre loaded with the outside world information with one touch calling all over North Korea."

"God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." The boss on WKRP.

I don't know that your smartphone idea will be all that useful. Isn't there something else a smartphone requires?

Eoin

fishlessman said:

england has a history  of interfering in other countries just so you know, a view from the outside looking in

You learned from the best, now we're your poodle.

fishlessman

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

england has a history  of interfering in other countries just so you know, a view from the outside looking in

True, but their overseas "adventures" are not nearly as recent and ongoing as ours.

um...they are sending nuke subs to sit with our subs off noko, friends of saudi, enemy of iran partners in crime