OT - I hate my dishwasher

CtTOPGUN

 Anyone having drying issues I recommend three things. Raise your hot water feed temps as high as you feel safe doing. Most plumbers have it around 120* for liability reasons. The dishwasher wants 135+. Next, run the hot water to the sink until it gets hot before starting a dishwasher cycle. This is especially important in cold climates with long runs from the hot water tank/source. The third thing is to always use rinse aid in all models that carry a dispenser. They are designed to use this product to aid drying. And NEVER use pods in any modern machine. These machines are made to dispense soap and rinse aid at precisely the right time. Those pods have a melt rate that is completely unpredictable.

 Of course no dishwasher is equipped with enough heater to dry water from any concave surface in the allotted time. And plastic is a problem to dry in non heater systems and a risk in heated setups.

 This from an appliance service tech of over 25 years.

blasting

Last time I checked, my friends in the appliance biz suggested ASKO.  Bosch used to be great, but has declined with other brands.  I've owned just 1 ASKO and can vouch for that one doing one heck of a job.  My current (new) stainless GE is completely useless.  I use it as a drying rack for hand washed dishes.

Good luck.

CoMoBGE

CtTOPGUN said:

 Anyone having drying issues I recommend three things. Raise your hot water feed temps as high as you feel safe doing. Most plumbers have it around 120* for liability reasons. The dishwasher wants 135+. Next, run the hot water to the sink until it gets hot before starting a dishwasher cycle. This is especially important in cold climates with long runs from the hot water tank/source. The third thing is to always use rinse aid in all models that carry a dispenser. They are designed to use this product to aid drying. And NEVER use pods in any modern machine. These machines are made to dispense soap and rinse aid at precisely the right time. Those pods have a melt rate that is completely unpredictable.

 Of course no dishwasher is equipped with enough heater to dry water from any concave surface in the allotted time. And plastic is a problem to dry in non heater systems and a risk in heated setups.

 This from an appliance service tech of over 25 years.

My Bosch came with and recommends the Finish Pods. Is there something better to use? 

Legume

CtTOPGUN said:

 Anyone having drying issues I recommend three things. Raise your hot water feed temps as high as you feel safe doing. Most plumbers have it around 120* for liability reasons. The dishwasher wants 135+. Next, run the hot water to the sink until it gets hot before starting a dishwasher cycle. This is especially important in cold climates with long runs from the hot water tank/source. The third thing is to always use rinse aid in all models that carry a dispenser. They are designed to use this product to aid drying. And NEVER use pods in any modern machine. These machines are made to dispense soap and rinse aid at precisely the right time. Those pods have a melt rate that is completely unpredictable.

 Of course no dishwasher is equipped with enough heater to dry water from any concave surface in the allotted time. And plastic is a problem to dry in non heater systems and a risk in heated setups.

 This from an appliance service tech of over 25 years.

Pretty sure my Bosch was made for and came with pods.  It even has a catch area on the end of the glassware rack for the pod to land in rather than fall to the bottom.

bgebrent

We had an Asko and it was pretty good.

nolaegghead

CtTOPGUN said:

 Anyone having drying issues I recommend three things. Raise your hot water feed temps as high as you feel safe doing. Most plumbers have it around 120* for liability reasons. The dishwasher wants 135+. Next, run the hot water to the sink until it gets hot before starting a dishwasher cycle. This is especially important in cold climates with long runs from the hot water tank/source. The third thing is to always use rinse aid in all models that carry a dispenser. They are designed to use this product to aid drying. And NEVER use pods in any modern machine. These machines are made to dispense soap and rinse aid at precisely the right time. Those pods have a melt rate that is completely unpredictable.

 Of course no dishwasher is equipped with enough heater to dry water from any concave surface in the allotted time. And plastic is a problem to dry in non heater systems and a risk in heated setups.

 This from an appliance service tech of over 25 years.

So you are suggesting the internal water heater does not get the water hot enough?  Over a 2 hr cycle and with the minimal amount of water in a batch cycle, I would not have thought that.   But I don't know.....I'll have to check the temp.

nolaegghead

http://dishwashers.reviewed.com/features/the-magic-mineral-in-boschs-new-dishwasher

CtTOPGUN

 The fact that some dishwashers promote certain brand pods is really just a business arrangement. The appliance manufacturer gets paid and the soap manufacturer gets advertising. It is ideal to have the best individual products applied at the appropriate times. Customer service reps will tell you the pods are great. Why? Those business arrangements combined with the fact that their customers like "easy". If any other manufacturer says their product works with pods you better believe all other manufactures need to say the same thing. As for what soap/rinse aid is "best"? That varies with water chemistry. Experimenting will be necessary.

 The tips I mentioned about hotter water was more geared towards units without heaters at all or those with very low wattage heaters. There are a couple higher end machines that will indeed raise the water temp to near 160*. But hotter water in will significantly shorten the time required to do so. Also that 2 hour cycle has a few fill/wash/drain sections within it.

nolaegghead

I definitely see running the hot before it fills would give it hotter water, but like you said, it fills and rinses a few times.  The final rinse is the one that needs to be the hottest for sterilization/drying, at least in the Bosch, which doesn't have an air heater.  

Solutions being, put an on-demand heater under the counter or buy a dishwater that will clean fine with cold water (which is pretty much what you get unless you pre-run the hot or your water heater is very close).

JohnInCarolina

This is the next dishwasher I'd like to purchase:

nolaegghead

I think there is a dishwasher in this, but I wasn't really paying attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lynzQ_MGho

blind99

I have a Bosch and like it OK. I miss the food grinders the old ones had. A little piece of carrot clogged it up. Filter needs cleaning once a week or it starts to smell. I'd give it an A for cleaning and B + for drying. Totally silent when running. 

I have the top silverware rack which is pretty nice. 

Photo Egg

blind99 said:

I have a Bosch and like it OK. I miss the food grinders the old ones had. A little piece of carrot clogged it up. Filter needs cleaning once a week or it starts to smell. I'd give it an A for cleaning and B + for drying. Totally silent when running. 

I have the top silverware rack which is pretty nice. 

The top rack is great...

JohnInCarolina

I've always liked dishwashers with great racks.

DoubleEgger

nolaegghead said:

I think there is a dishwasher in this, but I wasn't really paying attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lynzQ_MGho

Looks to be a little nippy outside 

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

This is the next dishwasher I'd like to purchase:

If you, do the word on the street is you should avoid buying the icemaker option. The one in my KBQ has proved to be problematic.

Hook_emHornsfan_74

We have had our Kenmore Elite for 10+ years haven't had a problem with it. It's quiet and dries wonderfully. 95 min cycle. 

DoubleEgger

Eoin said:

As with all appliances, Miele.

You might be on to something here. I have a Miele canister vac that is a tank. The Futura Dimension might be the one. It looks pretty sweet. 

nolaegghead

DoubleEgger said:

Eoin said:

As with all appliances, Miele.

You might be on to something here. I have a Miele canister vac that is a tank. The Futura Dimension might be the one. It looks pretty sweet. 

Miele is German, and Germans make good stuff.  They make Sham-Wow, so their dishwasher must be good.

Eoin

Do appliances in the US still fill with hot water? They don't here because of the waste of hot water - if you don't run the tap first the machine fills with cold water and the feed pipe is left full of unused hot water. Better to heat in the appliance.

MaskedMarvel

Our Bosch runs BETTER if you don't scrape and rinse. I'm not kidding - people are amazed at how much crap I load into our dishwasher. We maybe rinse the filter once a month. It just dissolves everything and pumps it away. 

We do so use the hard finish pods. We get them in bulk when Amazon runs a special. Very cheap. 

It has the silverware tray, which we think is vital. 

no problem with drying -- we use the jet dry as recommended. We do find the dishes are still hot even ten hours after a wash (our machine has a too was time of 54 minutes, not the two hours you guys are mentioning). Yes, plastic is sometimes still wet. also, we towel the rims of our wine glasses just to be sure. 

Part of the the energy efficiency is NOT running hot water before a cycle. It will heat everything itself very economically. I do check to make sure the disposal is clear in the sink drain where it's connected. 

And reliable. We have had it three years running once a day or two. We did pay for the extended service agreement but haven't had any issues. 


Strenuously recommend it to our friends. Good luck!

HeavyG

MaskedMarvel said:

Our Bosch runs BETTER if you don't scrape and rinse. I'm not kidding - people are amazed at how much crap I load into our dishwasher. We maybe rinse the filter once a month. It just dissolves everything and pumps it away. 

We do so use the hard finish pods. We get them in bulk when Amazon runs a special. Very cheap...

I think that has more to do with the dishwasher detergent rather than Bosch per se. When the use of phosphate salts were eliminated from many (most? all?) detergents a few years back there was a move to using enzymes instead.

Seems counterintuitive but from what I have read the enzymes actually perform better if there is actually more "stuff" on your dishes for them to work with. 

fishlessman

anyone have the double draws, never owned a dishwasher but thats the only style i would go with, one for clean and one for dirty pretty much the same system i use now, take plate out of the drying rack, use it, rinse it off and back into the rack. not understanding the washer doesnt dry the dish, isnt it a self contained drying rack, really, i can wait for a dish to dry

DoubleEgger

fishlessman said:

anyone have the double draws, never owned a dishwasher but thats the only style i would go with, one for clean and one for dirty pretty much the same system i use now, take plate out of the drying rack, use it, rinse it off and back into the rack. not understanding the washer doesnt dry the dish, isnt it a self contained drying rack, really, i can wait for a dish to dry

I looked at them a while back. They won't hold much. 

fishlessman

DoubleEgger said:

fishlessman said:

anyone have the double draws, never owned a dishwasher but thats the only style i would go with, one for clean and one for dirty pretty much the same system i use now, take plate out of the drying rack, use it, rinse it off and back into the rack. not understanding the washer doesnt dry the dish, isnt it a self contained drying rack, really, i can wait for a dish to dry

I looked at them a while back. They won't hold much. 

then two big bosches would work one each side of the sink

Skiddymarker

Eoin said:

Do appliances in the US still fill with hot water? They don't here because of the waste of hot water - if you don't run the tap first the machine fills with cold water and the feed pipe is left full of unused hot water. Better to heat in the appliance.

Just bought the cheap Bosch (<$600CDN/$425US) to replace a 12 year old Kitchenaid, drying is not an issue if you let it run the full 130 minute cycle. As noted above, the "handle" on the upper rack keeps pods off the floor of the machine. 
@Eoin - The price of NG in North America is about 1/2 the price in the UK and in line heaters are not as popular for hot water. Depends on the size of home and layout, but generally storage hot water using NG is often more cost effective.  

SirSquatch

I'll just add another Bosch recommendation to the many already in this thread. We found that Cascade pods clean the best for us. We also don't rinse our plates before putting them in. Dead silent, half the time when the alarm goes off to say it's done I can't figure out what the sound is because I forgot it was started. 

Legume

I remember the appliance store saying to just load it up with dirty dishes, it works better.  When we had a houseful of kids this would've been great, but with two of us now, stuff sits too long before it gets run and it dries on the plates.  Plus, it's a hard habit to break to stop rinsing dishes before loading, been doing this my whole life.  Next time we have a bunch over I'll definitely try this, but I've not had any issue with the Bosch cleaning.  We mostly run it at night, either when we go to bed or after dinner.  Regardless, it doesn't get emptied until next day, plenty of time for everything to dry.  The cycles are long, but there are also abbreviated cycles to choose from.  I'm never in a hurry to get it run and emptied.

Eoin

Skiddymarker said:

Eoin said:

Do appliances in the US still fill with hot water? They don't here because of the waste of hot water - if you don't run the tap first the machine fills with cold water and the feed pipe is left full of unused hot water. Better to heat in the appliance.

Just bought the cheap Bosch (<$600CDN/$425US) to replace a 12 year old Kitchenaid, drying is not an issue if you let it run the full 130 minute cycle. As noted above, the "handle" on the upper rack keeps pods off the floor of the machine. 
@Eoin - The price of NG in North America is about 1/2 the price in the UK and in line heaters are not as popular for hot water. Depends on the size of home and layout, but generally storage hot water using NG is often more cost effective.  

@Skiddymarker for washing machines here I think it's an energy saving rule that they are only cold fed, so there is no choice. Dishwashers can be hot fed but aren't normally. Of course, Government energy rules conveniently ignore the fact that electricity is expensive and oil / gas are cheap (relatively). Electricity prices keep going up with added costs for renewable subsidies and smart meters. I run an oil boiler, a lot cheaper than using electricity to heat water.

Griffin

Another Bosch owner, think its the 800 series. Got it about a year ago. Has the three shelves, the top one being for silverware.  We love it.

So quiet, we don't even know if its running unless the red light is shining on the floor. Honestly, when it drains the water, that is louder than it running.

 I think we always run the auto and sanitize modes and it takes an hour and a half, but we never turn it on until everybody has showered and its time for bed. I believe it has the built in water heater as well...can't remember if we sprung for that feature, but I think we did as our kitchen is on the exact opposite end of our house as the hot water heater.

I'm not concerned much with the lack of a drying cycle. Most of our dishes come out clean. My bourbon glasses are concave on the bottom and most of the time that's the only way I can tell if I ran the thing. Water in the concave? Yep, I ran it. I just put the glasses and any plastic that didn't dry in the dry rack on top of the counter that we put all our non-dishwasher stuff in and let them air dry.

I'd get another one if it broke...well, if it broke tomorrow, maybe not cause one year wouldn't be that great of a lifetime for an appliance, but you know what I mean.