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Wild Yeast

1568101135

Comments

  • Scoring... the angle of your Lame is critical. A 90° angle creates a crevice. A crevice will spread left and right, no ears. If you cut at a 35° angle you’re creating a flap. That flap will rise with your ovenspring and give you pretty ears. Do forget steam is important too. 
  • 20stone20stone Posts: 1,961
    My lame gets stuck in the dough, oil or not.  Is it possible that it is harder to do with higher hydration doughs, or do I just suck at it?
    (now only 16 stone)

    Joule SV
    GE induction stove
    Gasser by the community pool (currently unavailable)
    Scale (which one of my friends refuses to use)
    Friends with BGEs and myriad other fired devices (currently unavail IRL)
    Occasional access to a KBQ and Webber Kettle
    Charcuterie and sourdough enthusiast
    Prosciuttos in an undisclosed location

    Austin, TX
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @20stone In my case, it's easy to read and intellectually understand what to do. The problem issue for me is there is a certain amount of tactile skill and a "feel" one has to acquire. I've read things like, "An iron hand in a velvet glove". As I do more and more bread that makes sense, but it's useless advice to a novice.
    I agree with the angle advice given above - you just need to be quick and decisive when you score. From what you said above, I would say you are cutting too slowly - you need to make the cut quickly - more like slashing.
    I've also started spritzing my loaves with water right before they go in. Even in a Dutch oven, or under a cloche, or under a bowl, whatever - it helps add steam and that seams to help the ear form.
    I'm definitely still developing my skill set so maybe others will add commentary.
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • SciAggie said:
    @20stone In my case, it's easy to read and intellectually understand what to do. The problem issue for me is there is a certain amount of tactile skill and a "feel" one has to acquire. I've read things like, "An iron hand in a velvet glove". As I do more and more bread that makes sense, but it's useless advice to a novice.
    I agree with the angle advice given above - you just need to be quick and decisive when you score. From what you said above, I would say you are cutting too slowly - you need to make the cut quickly - more like slashing.
    I've also started spritzing my loaves with water right before they go in. Even in a Dutch oven, or under a cloche, or under a bowl, whatever - it helps add steam and that seams to help the ear form.
    I'm definitely still developing my skill set so maybe others will add commentary.
    I also spritz my dough with water right after I score it and then transfer it onto my stone.  I agree... quick and decisive. Preplan your scoring pattern before you make your first incision. You don’t want to have anything on your mind other than moving your Lame. I keep my lame in a small glass of water before I score with it. Dough won’t stick to wet objects. 
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    These all look great. As to artisan scoring, a higher hydration loaf sometimes will ear out but, more often won't be as pronounced. 75%-85% will have a fairly consistent ear unless your scoring game is lacking. YMMV

    That hurt, Blake.

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    Lame. 
    Tool? Coffee Stirrer? Hand?

    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    First loaf coming out of the LBGE. 
    30% whole grain spelt.
    85% hydration. 
    24hr cold autolyse.
    12hr cold proof. 
    Don't rush it. 


    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    Boule done. 

    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @NPHuskerFL Nice. Over my holiday break I’m going to try to deal with 85% hydration. I normally work with about %77. We’ll see what happens. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    edited December 2017
    @SciAggie Thanks Gary. I've been moving toward longer autolyse with less levain. Something I've read on The fresh loaf forum. These were with a stiffer levain and only used 100g. The dough ends up being very pliable. And with each set of stretch and folds it's building strength. YMMV
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    Nice, but I don't think the boule had enough oven spring...

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    :smiley:

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @NPHuskerFL Recently I have autolysed (with salt) for about 2 1/2 hours at room temp. I stretch and fold every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours, then once an hour (gently)until the dough is risen by 30% or so. This seems to have improved the way the dough feels when I’m shaping it. I think I’m ready to try a wetter dough. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    Question for the breadheads:

    I have a rye and buckwheat (both 8%, 87% hydration) dough proofing in the fridge. The last couple of times I tried a higher hydration (my usual is 75%-78%) , the loaf turned out kinda gummy. Especially with rye or whole wheat loaves. Despite the IT being 210F+. 

    Usual MO is preheat oven and CI DO for 1 hr at 485F, bake covered (with ice inside for steam) for 30mins, uncovered for 15 mins, then cover again for 15-20mins (because some loaves turned out gummy). 

    Should I try baking at lower temp for a longer time? Longer time covered? Any tips? 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @caliking I can't help my friend. I will offer a guess - or what I would try - based on zero experience. If you have checked the temperature and know they are done, then I suspect the loaves may be overproofed. Is that a possibility? I have experienced some slightly gummy crumbs for that reason. I haven't tackled higher hydrations yet. Higher hydration will ferment more quickly - so consider that possibility. 
    Remember I'm being an armchair baker here with no first hand knowledge.
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • 20stone20stone Posts: 1,961
    SciAggie said:
    @caliking I can't help my friend. I will offer a guess - or what I would try - based on zero experience....

    Remember I'm being an armchair baker here with no first hand knowledge.
    You are going to need to scrub this thread of pics if you are going to try to be that self depricating
    (now only 16 stone)

    Joule SV
    GE induction stove
    Gasser by the community pool (currently unavailable)
    Scale (which one of my friends refuses to use)
    Friends with BGEs and myriad other fired devices (currently unavail IRL)
    Occasional access to a KBQ and Webber Kettle
    Charcuterie and sourdough enthusiast
    Prosciuttos in an undisclosed location

    Austin, TX
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    @SciAggie you may be on to something. Some of those loaves may have been overproofed because I was experimenting with longer times in the fridge. I didn't realize that higher hydration would speed up fermentation significantly, but it makes sense.

    I was planning on proofing for 12-16hrs in the fridge, but I may pull it sooner and see what happens. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @20stone Lol, I was referring to any experience with really high hydrations. I live in the 75% range.
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    edited December 2017
    @caliking Here's my thought process. I used to try to let my sourdough double in volume because that's what recipes call for with commercial yeast. It works with active dry yeast, but not so much with sourdough. I've had better luck at 30% increase in volume. During those times when I let it overproof - I had gummier crumb. This experience was in the summer when I was proofing in 85-90 degree temps instead of in the refrigerator.
    Was your crust was thick and tough as well?
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    edited December 2017
    @caliking
    Not gonna assume so, are you letting the bread cool at least 2 hours or overnight on a wire rack before slicing?
    And are you saying using the same blend of buckwheat & rye at lower hydration doesn't give you the same gummy outcome?
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    SciAggie said:
    @caliking Here's my thought process. I used to try to let my sourdough double in volume because that's what recipes call for with commercial yeast. It works with active dry yeast, but not so much with sourdough. I've had better luck at 30% increase in volume. During those times when I let it overproof - I had gummier crumb. This experience was in the summer when I was proofing in 85-90 degree temps instead of in the refrigerator.
    Was your crust was thick and tough as well?
    Crust was not particularly thick or tough from what I can remember. But its possible that these loaves were overproofed.

    I’m going to try intentionally under proofing a similar dough and see what happens. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    @caliking
    Not gonna assume so, are you letting the bread cool at least 2 hours or overnight on a wire rack before slicing?
    And are you saying using the same blend of buckwheat & rye at lower hydration doesn't give you the same gummy outcome?
    Yep. I usually pull it out of the oven and go to bed, so it rests overnight. 

    This is is the first time I baked this combo. Experiment #2 will be same combo but lower hydration. 

    My understanding was that flours like rye, whole wheat, etc need higher hydration, which is why I went up. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    @caliking Keep the hydration. Try a long cold autolyse. re: flour(s) + water and mix into a shaggy mass. No slap and folds or folds yet. Let that sit overnight to really get happy. 
    Next day. Add in the starter whether it's 100% hydrated starter makes no difference here. Add in remaining water with salt content dissolved in that water. Work it in to get the starter distributed.  Allow to sit for about 1hr. Begin working the dough. After several sets of folds cover and refrigerate for about 12 hrs. Next divide dough. Preshape. Bench rest. Shape and into your banneton or proofing basket. Place into refrigerator overnight. Preheat egg or oven with CI DO or stone. Bake roughly 22-25minutes covered with steam (a quick mist is sufficient imo).  Uncover and bake an additional 15-25 minutes or until desired color is achieved. I haven't probed with TP for IT. 
    Hope that helps. 
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • Was gifted a starter today that a buddy ordered from San Fran. That stuff is sour!  Will give it ago this weekend. 
    Jason NW GA- home of carpet and Mexican restaurants
    LBGE, MM, BS (Blackstone and the other kind)
    One sorry Labrador

    My chili did not suck. My wings either. 
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    edited December 2017
    Crumb Shot from the last boule. 


    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 15,617
    @NPHuskerFL I’ve read about a long autolyse like that, but haven’t tried it yet. I’ll give it a shot. The list of tweaks to try is growing ! :)

    that boule does look beautiful. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @NPHuskerFL Man those are nice. I’m not there yet. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    @caliking Thanks! Also just a thought..you may find with that particular mixture of flour extra proof time may need accounted for. A dense gummy texture with large just a few large holes and no structure may indicate underproofing. Just my amateur advice ymmv. 
    @SciAggie Thanks Gary. 
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 6,472
    @NPHuskerFL So you have found a long cold autolyse superior to say 2 hours or so at room temperature?
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • NPHuskerFLNPHuskerFL Posts: 17,629
    SciAggie said:
    @NPHuskerFL So you have found a long cold autolyse superior to say 2 hours or so at room temperature?
    Yes 
    LBGE 2013 & MM 2014
    Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FAN
    Flying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL
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