Wild Yeast

HogHeaven

Scoring... the angle of your Lame is critical. A 90° angle creates a crevice. A crevice will spread left and right, no ears. If you cut at a 35° angle you’re creating a flap. That flap will rise with your ovenspring and give you pretty ears. Do forget steam is important too. 

20stone

My lame gets stuck in the dough, oil or not.  Is it possible that it is harder to do with higher hydration doughs, or do I just suck at it?

SciAggie

@20stone In my case, it's easy to read and intellectually understand what to do. The problem issue for me is there is a certain amount of tactile skill and a "feel" one has to acquire. I've read things like, "An iron hand in a velvet glove". As I do more and more bread that makes sense, but it's useless advice to a novice.
I agree with the angle advice given above - you just need to be quick and decisive when you score. From what you said above, I would say you are cutting too slowly - you need to make the cut quickly - more like slashing.
I've also started spritzing my loaves with water right before they go in. Even in a Dutch oven, or under a cloche, or under a bowl, whatever - it helps add steam and that seams to help the ear form.
I'm definitely still developing my skill set so maybe others will add commentary.

HogHeaven

SciAggie said:

@20stone In my case, it's easy to read and intellectually understand what to do. The problem issue for me is there is a certain amount of tactile skill and a "feel" one has to acquire. I've read things like, "An iron hand in a velvet glove". As I do more and more bread that makes sense, but it's useless advice to a novice.
I agree with the angle advice given above - you just need to be quick and decisive when you score. From what you said above, I would say you are cutting too slowly - you need to make the cut quickly - more like slashing.
I've also started spritzing my loaves with water right before they go in. Even in a Dutch oven, or under a cloche, or under a bowl, whatever - it helps add steam and that seams to help the ear form.
I'm definitely still developing my skill set so maybe others will add commentary.

I also spritz my dough with water right after I score it and then transfer it onto my stone.  I agree... quick and decisive. Preplan your scoring pattern before you make your first incision. You don’t want to have anything on your mind other than moving your Lame. I keep my lame in a small glass of water before I score with it. Dough won’t stick to wet objects. 

caliking

NPHuskerFL said:

These all look great. As to artisan scoring, a higher hydration loaf sometimes will ear out but, more often won't be as pronounced. 75%-85% will have a fairly consistent ear unless your scoring game is lacking. YMMV

That hurt, Blake.

NPHuskerFL

Lame. 
Tool? Coffee Stirrer? Hand?

NPHuskerFL

First loaf coming out of the LBGE. 
30% whole grain spelt.
85% hydration. 
24hr cold autolyse.
12hr cold proof. 
Don't rush it. 

NPHuskerFL

Boule done. 

SciAggie

@NPHuskerFL Nice. Over my holiday break I’m going to try to deal with 85% hydration. I normally work with about %77. We’ll see what happens. 

NPHuskerFL

@SciAggie Thanks Gary. I've been moving toward longer autolyse with less levain. Something I've read on The fresh loaf forum. These were with a stiffer levain and only used 100g. The dough ends up being very pliable. And with each set of stretch and folds it's building strength. YMMV

caliking

Nice, but I don't think the boule had enough oven spring...

caliking

SciAggie

@NPHuskerFL Recently I have autolysed (with salt) for about 2 1/2 hours at room temp. I stretch and fold every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours, then once an hour (gently)until the dough is risen by 30% or so. This seems to have improved the way the dough feels when I’m shaping it. I think I’m ready to try a wetter dough. 

caliking

Question for the breadheads:

I have a rye and buckwheat (both 8%, 87% hydration) dough proofing in the fridge. The last couple of times I tried a higher hydration (my usual is 75%-78%) , the loaf turned out kinda gummy. Especially with rye or whole wheat loaves. Despite the IT being 210F+. 

Usual MO is preheat oven and CI DO for 1 hr at 485F, bake covered (with ice inside for steam) for 30mins, uncovered for 15 mins, then cover again for 15-20mins (because some loaves turned out gummy). 

Should I try baking at lower temp for a longer time? Longer time covered? Any tips? 

SciAggie

@caliking I can't help my friend. I will offer a guess - or what I would try - based on zero experience. If you have checked the temperature and know they are done, then I suspect the loaves may be overproofed. Is that a possibility? I have experienced some slightly gummy crumbs for that reason. I haven't tackled higher hydrations yet. Higher hydration will ferment more quickly - so consider that possibility. 
Remember I'm being an armchair baker here with no first hand knowledge.

20stone

SciAggie said:

@caliking I can't help my friend. I will offer a guess - or what I would try - based on zero experience....

Remember I'm being an armchair baker here with no first hand knowledge.

You are going to need to scrub this thread of pics if you are going to try to be that self depricating

caliking

@SciAggie you may be on to something. Some of those loaves may have been overproofed because I was experimenting with longer times in the fridge. I didn't realize that higher hydration would speed up fermentation significantly, but it makes sense.

I was planning on proofing for 12-16hrs in the fridge, but I may pull it sooner and see what happens. 

SciAggie

@20stone Lol, I was referring to any experience with really high hydrations. I live in the 75% range.

SciAggie

@caliking Here's my thought process. I used to try to let my sourdough double in volume because that's what recipes call for with commercial yeast. It works with active dry yeast, but not so much with sourdough. I've had better luck at 30% increase in volume. During those times when I let it overproof - I had gummier crumb. This experience was in the summer when I was proofing in 85-90 degree temps instead of in the refrigerator.
Was your crust was thick and tough as well?

NPHuskerFL

@caliking
Not gonna assume so, are you letting the bread cool at least 2 hours or overnight on a wire rack before slicing?
And are you saying using the same blend of buckwheat & rye at lower hydration doesn't give you the same gummy outcome?

caliking

SciAggie said:

@caliking Here's my thought process. I used to try to let my sourdough double in volume because that's what recipes call for with commercial yeast. It works with active dry yeast, but not so much with sourdough. I've had better luck at 30% increase in volume. During those times when I let it overproof - I had gummier crumb. This experience was in the summer when I was proofing in 85-90 degree temps instead of in the refrigerator.
Was your crust was thick and tough as well?

Crust was not particularly thick or tough from what I can remember. But its possible that these loaves were overproofed.

I’m going to try intentionally under proofing a similar dough and see what happens. 

caliking

NPHuskerFL said:

@caliking
Not gonna assume so, are you letting the bread cool at least 2 hours or overnight on a wire rack before slicing?
And are you saying using the same blend of buckwheat & rye at lower hydration doesn't give you the same gummy outcome?

Yep. I usually pull it out of the oven and go to bed, so it rests overnight. 

This is is the first time I baked this combo. Experiment #2 will be same combo but lower hydration. 

My understanding was that flours like rye, whole wheat, etc need higher hydration, which is why I went up. 

NPHuskerFL

@caliking Keep the hydration. Try a long cold autolyse. re: flour(s) + water and mix into a shaggy mass. No slap and folds or folds yet. Let that sit overnight to really get happy. 
Next day. Add in the starter whether it's 100% hydrated starter makes no difference here. Add in remaining water with salt content dissolved in that water. Work it in to get the starter distributed.  Allow to sit for about 1hr. Begin working the dough. After several sets of folds cover and refrigerate for about 12 hrs. Next divide dough. Preshape. Bench rest. Shape and into your banneton or proofing basket. Place into refrigerator overnight. Preheat egg or oven with CI DO or stone. Bake roughly 22-25minutes covered with steam (a quick mist is sufficient imo).  Uncover and bake an additional 15-25 minutes or until desired color is achieved. I haven't probed with TP for IT. 
Hope that helps. 

theyolksonyou

Was gifted a starter today that a buddy ordered from San Fran. That stuff is sour!  Will give it ago this weekend. 

NPHuskerFL

Crumb Shot from the last boule. 

caliking

@NPHuskerFL I’ve read about a long autolyse like that, but haven’t tried it yet. I’ll give it a shot. The list of tweaks to try is growing !

that boule does look beautiful. 

SciAggie

@NPHuskerFL Man those are nice. I’m not there yet. 

NPHuskerFL

@caliking Thanks! Also just a thought..you may find with that particular mixture of flour extra proof time may need accounted for. A dense gummy texture with large just a few large holes and no structure may indicate underproofing. Just my amateur advice ymmv. 
@SciAggie Thanks Gary. 

SciAggie

@NPHuskerFL So you have found a long cold autolyse superior to say 2 hours or so at room temperature?

NPHuskerFL

SciAggie said:

@NPHuskerFL So you have found a long cold autolyse superior to say 2 hours or so at room temperature?

Yes