OT - Epic Meltdown

Ozzie_Isaac

pgprescott said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

so the guy was a convicted drug dealing immigrant that traded drugs for sexual acts. the democrats should set up a gofundme page for this guy

Yeah...so the guy totally deserves how he was treated.

I once ate a few grapes at a grocery store and didn't pay for them so if I ever get beaten by a cop I guess I just got what I deserved.

At least that seems to be the logic in TrumpLandia.

No, but if the cops tell you to vacate an area and you do not, you might expect to be physically removed. No???? So what?

So you should do whatever the guy in the security vest says or you should be prepared to bounce your face off the floor?

If I did that to someone I would be in jail.  This situation did not warrant violent re-accomadating.

It's an airplane. The rules are a bit different. You can't just do what you want. like it or not. It's not a totally one sided event. Plenty of crap to go around. The other booted passengers are physically fine I believe. Don't pretend he didn't have a choice in the matter. 

Plane is safely at the gate, guy has no weapons, made no threats, is just sitting in his seat he paid for.  United decides, randomly, he has to get off so their buddies can fly.

You think beating the **** out of him is appropriate response?  How about, hey $1600 dollars for volunteer.  Nope?  Ok, how about $2400?  Continue till someone accepts.  Their business decision was to bounce a customers face off the armrest and drag him out.  That is never an option in a business transaction.

HeavyG

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

so the guy was a convicted drug dealing immigrant that traded drugs for sexual acts. the democrats should set up a gofundme page for this guy

Yeah...so the guy totally deserves how he was treated.

I once ate a few grapes at a grocery store and didn't pay for them so if I ever get beaten by a cop I guess I just got what I deserved.

At least that seems to be the logic in TrumpLandia.

No, but if the cops tell you to vacate an area and you do not, you might expect to be physically removed. No???? So what?

So you should do whatever the guy in the security vest says or you should be prepared to bounce your face off the floor?

If I did that to someone I would be in jail.  This situation did not warrant violent re-accomadating.

It's not at all unusual for cops to lie and issue orders that are illegal in and of themselves such as telling folks it is illegal to film them in public such as this case a month ago: http://www.wwaytv3.com/2017/03/08/attorney-speaks-out-after-off/

An interesting twist in this recent United incident, in this law profs opinion,  is that United actually misinterpreted federal rules and violated their own rules in regards to  trying to bump someone. Had United actually followed their own procedures properly the local cops would not have even been involved.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/

Be interesting to see if Dr. Dao agrees to an out of court settlement or decides to sue in court. I have no doubt that he will have no problem finding top notch legal representation.

United also violated their own rules in this recent incident where although no cops were ultimately involved the passenger was threatened to be put into handcuffs.

http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html

pgprescott

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

so the guy was a convicted drug dealing immigrant that traded drugs for sexual acts. the democrats should set up a gofundme page for this guy

Yeah...so the guy totally deserves how he was treated.

I once ate a few grapes at a grocery store and didn't pay for them so if I ever get beaten by a cop I guess I just got what I deserved.

At least that seems to be the logic in TrumpLandia.

No, but if the cops tell you to vacate an area and you do not, you might expect to be physically removed. No???? So what?

So you should do whatever the guy in the security vest says or you should be prepared to bounce your face off the floor?

If I did that to someone I would be in jail.  This situation did not warrant violent re-accomadating.

It's an airplane. The rules are a bit different. You can't just do what you want. like it or not. It's not a totally one sided event. Plenty of crap to go around. The other booted passengers are physically fine I believe. Don't pretend he didn't have a choice in the matter. 

Plane is safely at the gate, guy has no weapons, made no threats, is just sitting in his seat he paid for.  United decides, randomly, he has to get off so their buddies can fly.

You think beating the **** out of him is appropriate response?  How about, hey $1600 dollars for volunteer.  Nope?  Ok, how about $2400?  Continue till someone accepts.  Their business decision was to bounce a customers face off the armrest and drag him out.  That is never an option in a business transaction.

I assume you know they have the right to remove him. PR issue, absolutely. You act like they didn't try to get him to leave on his own. It's not his plane. Paid for a seat, get your money back plus some. You just can't do whatever you wish. It's a lose lose situation. It just too bad all around. Now we will have other idiots that will disrupt travel due to this incident and the sympathetic viewpoint.  Just too bad. The airlines are not a sympathetic figure anyway. Who doesn't dislike them? Not me. I've personally had terrible experiences similar to this minus the me not doing as directed and gettting dragged out. Instead I took up my grievances with the personnel at the airport and followed up with the airline after the fact. I was ultimately dissatisfied and won't fly them unless I feel it is necessary. What is the airlines alternative? Kick someone not randomly chosen? What if they won't go? Leave the flight crew and cancel an entire flight and screw hundreds? No doubt this could have gone differently, but I must be pretty callous cuz I'm not that bothered by this as the guy could have avoided the result. Sorry. Much worse issues to outraged over than a guy who made a real crappy situation even crappier and was abliged. 

Ozzie_Isaac

pgprescott said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said:

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

so the guy was a convicted drug dealing immigrant that traded drugs for sexual acts. the democrats should set up a gofundme page for this guy

Yeah...so the guy totally deserves how he was treated.

I once ate a few grapes at a grocery store and didn't pay for them so if I ever get beaten by a cop I guess I just got what I deserved.

At least that seems to be the logic in TrumpLandia.

No, but if the cops tell you to vacate an area and you do not, you might expect to be physically removed. No???? So what?

So you should do whatever the guy in the security vest says or you should be prepared to bounce your face off the floor?

If I did that to someone I would be in jail.  This situation did not warrant violent re-accomadating.

It's an airplane. The rules are a bit different. You can't just do what you want. like it or not. It's not a totally one sided event. Plenty of crap to go around. The other booted passengers are physically fine I believe. Don't pretend he didn't have a choice in the matter. 

Plane is safely at the gate, guy has no weapons, made no threats, is just sitting in his seat he paid for.  United decides, randomly, he has to get off so their buddies can fly.

You think beating the **** out of him is appropriate response?  How about, hey $1600 dollars for volunteer.  Nope?  Ok, how about $2400?  Continue till someone accepts.  Their business decision was to bounce a customers face off the armrest and drag him out.  That is never an option in a business transaction.

I assume you know they have the right to remove him. PR issue, absolutely. You act like they didn't try to get him to leave on his own. It's not his plane. Paid for a seat, get your money back plus some. You just can't do whatever you wish. It's a lose lose situation. It just too bad all around. Now we will have other idiots that will disrupt travel due to this incident and the sympathetic viewpoint.  Just too bad. The airlines are not a sympathetic figure anyway. Who doesn't dislike them? Not me. I've personally had terrible experiences similar to this minus the me not doing as directed and gettting dragged out. Instead I took up my grievances with the personnel at the airport and followed up with the airline after the fact. I was ultimately dissatisfied and won't fly them unless I feel it is necessary. What is the airlines alternative? Kick someone not randomly chosen? What if they won't go? Leave the flight crew and cancel an entire flight and screw hundreds? No doubt this could have gone differently, but I must be pretty callous cuz I'm not that bothered by this as the guy could have avoided the result. Sorry. Much worse issues to outraged over than a guy who made a real crappy situation even crappier and was abliged. 

Option: don't over book, get a different crew, or drive.

Airlines cancel planes all the time.  You are not callous, just a different perspective.  I generally obey authority figures because it is just easier, however, if someone does something they do not like beating that person sensless for a non-violent incident is stupid and counter-productive.  United and the security proffessionals were 100% wrong in their approach.  They should be punished.  The only thing they recognize is $$$.  I hope it is so expensive it makes them fix their policies.

Ultimately, I doubt it will.  They will discredit the victim, point fingers at others, and skate free.  $$$ always does.

Ozzie_Isaac

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/united-airlines-promised-federal-regulators-all-ticketed-passengers-are-guaranteed


Later in the filing, United Airlines expanded on its promise to regulators that it guarantees every ticketed passenger a seat.

Ozzie_Isaac

Also, it is a 4hr drive from Chicago to Louisville.

pgprescott

@Ozzie_Isaac , you must obey authority on an airplane. If not, the consequences are severe. We may not like that but it is so and likely a good thing for the whole. Second, I missed the beating. All I saw was the guy being removed from his seat and dragged out because he chose to walk. Truth is once he refused to obey, he put them in a box and they did not give in just as a parent might not with a disobedient child. It was a test of wills. Imo, it's a big problem the other direction. Too many people and parents giving in to someone who won't obey ythe authority. 

They overbook. Nobody likes that but it's part of what keep fares down, which everyone likes. I'm pretty sure this guy could have gotten united to rent him a car and had 800 in his pocket. It's their plane not his or ours. Maybe there were other options but the airlines are complex and things happen. Maybe the flight wasn't overbooked until an issue arose on another flight with the crew. Idk, but if you are told by the crew of a plane to do something benign, you do it. Again, too bad for them. Too bad for us in the long run I bet. This happens all the time and people don't get hurt at all. Why this guy got hurt was totally his decision. If you want to conflate the debate about whether this practice should be illegal, that's a whole separate issue really. It's not and it's fairly common. Just like them taking your plane which is partially full and giving it to a full flight group because it's more lucrative to cancel your flight than theirs. It sucks, but their prerogative. Anyway, I will be curious to see if there are any legal consequences at all. Maybe for him? 

Focker

Things got real real, real fast, when he made the wise decision to reboard the plane.

Focker

They don't Fock around at the airport, have gotten into a couple of EPIC exchanges with TSA, Allegiant, security, at two airports, and Allegiant upper management.  It was pathetic, without going into patient specific details.  

Other than the Honor Flights I will do, I avoid the airport at all cost.