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Kamados at my local grill dealer
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Great discussion here. However, as noted previously this forum and users are not the target audience for the respective companies. I believe their focus is looking at how to best position to attract the first-time buyer. Given the longevity of the product, once you set the hook you have a greater chance to keep them. But I'm no martketeer so I could be missing the mark. FWIW-Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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Just bought a LBGE in Martinsburg, WV. Was thinking of buying a small or MM, but I'm thinking I will give KJ a good long look before I pull the trigger on the next one.
Charles Town, West-by-God Virginia
Sazco large Casa-Q
Large BGE
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bigalsworth said:tjv said:
2017 Big Joe II: $1,900
BGE XL: $1,200
Nest: $180
Mates: $160
Ash/Gripper: $60
CGS Woo/Spider: $50
CGS: AR (no extra grate, since KJ only comes with one grate): $90
CGS Heat Deflectors: $60
CGS Ang-L Brackets: $30
Smokeware Chimney Cap: $60
Total: $1,890
let me help clarify a bit. just a quick list.
You're right many won't buy those items, but again, the question was asked to do a direct comparison between the two.
From my research, the listed BGE/CGS/SW set up will get you more or less the same features as the new KJ--whether the Nest, Mates, and hinge will be as good of quality remains up for debate.
And to answer the question below me, I did not factor in the cost of an additional grate because the KJ only has one grate (albeit split). I tried to keep the "apples to apples" as best as I could, but in fairness, the KJ does allow two heights with one split grate--so an extra 20" round would make the MSRP of the Egg slightly higher than the Joe.
- ask the joe guys for the set up to smoke up to 9 racks of ribs (babyback or st. louis) flat & whole and still get to each rack without taking any of the set-up apart.
- ask the joe guys how you get two level of pork butts or brisket between the grids on the divide and conquer.
- ask the joe guys, how you lift the divide and conquer out when it's loaded with stones and food.
- ask the joe guys how you push a big pizza stone high in the dome without the thermometer interfering with it.
- ask the joe guys how you can set up for a simple one grid cook, direct or indirect and have direct access to the lump without handling the set-up
- ask the joe guys how you do multi-level cooks and have easy access to the lower grid.
- ask the joe guys how you do a double divide and conquer set-up on the classic.....half stone under a full size lower grid and half stone under a half size upper grid with direct access to the lower gird. this set-up is great for steaks or burgers with side dishes.
simple answer to all is......you can't.
t
On the other hand I can go to a KJ dealer and see all this stuff that it comes with and I will think, "sweet, that stuff all looks pretty cool and useful and it all comes as a package."
I see it daily in our store when we talk to customers about how to get the most out of their grill purchase. We tell them what works and as important why it works. We do the same for dealers and you'd be surprised the thanks they offer.
The cool thing about our stuff is, it's an easy add-on system. Start as simple as a rig & stone and grow as your needs or abilities grow. With the Rig and stone, you have all three basic cooking set-ups: low for searing, high for roasting and indirect for bbq. For dealers, an add-on system means continued customer growth.
We had a 3 ring PSWoo w/ platform which is basically the divide and conquer before there was a divide and conquer. Ya'll told us, it's better to have the spider, lower ring, separate as it can do more. So, we made the change. We know how these systems work and where the limitations are. Heck we have a patent on the PSWoo. Does KJoe have a patent on their divide and conquer?
We get calls from kjoe owners who are frustrated and want our stuff. We feel bad when we have to tell them..... you can't do this bge set-up or that one because of the kjoe grill.
Yesterday, I had a guy call you wanted to move from a pellet grill to a ceramic grill. I told him check bge and here is what we can do. While I was typing the post above, he calls back and asks about kjoe. He said the kjoe dealer told him it is a complete package. I reminded him what he wants to do and that package won't do it. Like you said, kjoe is an easy sell but for many folks not the best fit.
www.ceramicgrillstore.com ACGP, Inc. -
@tjv just curious why your stuff doesnt work the KJ?
Little Rock, AR
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tjv said:bigalsworth said:tjv said:
2017 Big Joe II: $1,900
BGE XL: $1,200
Nest: $180
Mates: $160
Ash/Gripper: $60
CGS Woo/Spider: $50
CGS: AR (no extra grate, since KJ only comes with one grate): $90
CGS Heat Deflectors: $60
CGS Ang-L Brackets: $30
Smokeware Chimney Cap: $60
Total: $1,890
let me help clarify a bit. just a quick list.
You're right many won't buy those items, but again, the question was asked to do a direct comparison between the two.
From my research, the listed BGE/CGS/SW set up will get you more or less the same features as the new KJ--whether the Nest, Mates, and hinge will be as good of quality remains up for debate.
And to answer the question below me, I did not factor in the cost of an additional grate because the KJ only has one grate (albeit split). I tried to keep the "apples to apples" as best as I could, but in fairness, the KJ does allow two heights with one split grate--so an extra 20" round would make the MSRP of the Egg slightly higher than the Joe.
- ask the joe guys for the set up to smoke up to 9 racks of ribs (babyback or st. louis) flat & whole and still get to each rack without taking any of the set-up apart.
- ask the joe guys how you get two level of pork butts or brisket between the grids on the divide and conquer.
- ask the joe guys, how you lift the divide and conquer out when it's loaded with stones and food.
- ask the joe guys how you push a big pizza stone high in the dome without the thermometer interfering with it.
- ask the joe guys how you can set up for a simple one grid cook, direct or indirect and have direct access to the lump without handling the set-up
- ask the joe guys how you do multi-level cooks and have easy access to the lower grid.
- ask the joe guys how you do a double divide and conquer set-up on the classic.....half stone under a full size lower grid and half stone under a half size upper grid with direct access to the lower gird. this set-up is great for steaks or burgers with side dishes.
simple answer to all is......you can't.
t
On the other hand I can go to a KJ dealer and see all this stuff that it comes with and I will think, "sweet, that stuff all looks pretty cool and useful and it all comes as a package."
I see it daily in our store when we talk to customers about how to get the most out of their grill purchase. We tell them what works and as important why it works. We do the same for dealers and you'd be surprised the thanks they offer.
The cool thing about our stuff is, it's an easy add-on system. Start as simple as a rig & stone and grow as your needs or abilities grow. With the Rig and stone, you have all three basic cooking set-ups: low for searing, high for roasting and indirect for bbq. For dealers, an add-on system means continued customer growth.
We had a 3 ring PSWoo w/ platform which is basically the divide and conquer before there was a divide and conquer. Ya'll told us, it's better to have the spider, lower ring, separate as it can do more. So, we made the change. We know how these systems work and where the limitations are. Heck we have a patent on the PSWoo. Does KJoe have a patent on their divide and conquer?
We get calls from kjoe owners who are frustrated and want our stuff. We feel bad when we have to tell them..... you can't do this bge set-up or that one because of the kjoe grill.
Yesterday, I had a guy call you wanted to move from a pellet grill to a ceramic grill. I told him check bge and here is what we can do. While I was typing the post above, he calls back and asks about kjoe. He said the kjoe dealer told him it is a complete package. I reminded him what he wants to do and that package won't do it. Like you said, kjoe is an easy sell but for many folks not the best fit.
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Qtjv said:bigalsworth said:tjv said:
2017 Big Joe II: $1,900
BGE XL: $1,200
Nest: $180
Mates: $160
Ash/Gripper: $60
CGS Woo/Spider: $50
CGS: AR (no extra grate, since KJ only comes with one grate): $90
CGS Heat Deflectors: $60
CGS Ang-L Brackets: $30
Smokeware Chimney Cap: $60
Total: $1,890
let me help clarify a bit. just a quick list.
You're right many won't buy those items, but again, the question was asked to do a direct comparison between the two.
From my research, the listed BGE/CGS/SW set up will get you more or less the same features as the new KJ--whether the Nest, Mates, and hinge will be as good of quality remains up for debate.
And to answer the question below me, I did not factor in the cost of an additional grate because the KJ only has one grate (albeit split). I tried to keep the "apples to apples" as best as I could, but in fairness, the KJ does allow two heights with one split grate--so an extra 20" round would make the MSRP of the Egg slightly higher than the Joe.
- ask the joe guys for the set up to smoke up to 9 racks of ribs (babyback or st. louis) flat & whole and still get to each rack without taking any of the set-up apart.
- ask the joe guys how you get two level of pork butts or brisket between the grids on the divide and conquer.
- ask the joe guys, how you lift the divide and conquer out when it's loaded with stones and food.
- ask the joe guys how you push a big pizza stone high in the dome without the thermometer interfering with it.
- ask the joe guys how you can set up for a simple one grid cook, direct or indirect and have direct access to the lump without handling the set-up
- ask the joe guys how you do multi-level cooks and have easy access to the lower grid.
- ask the joe guys how you do a double divide and conquer set-up on the classic.....half stone under a full size lower grid and half stone under a half size upper grid with direct access to the lower gird. this set-up is great for steaks or burgers with side dishes.
simple answer to all is......you can't.
t
On the other hand I can go to a KJ dealer and see all this stuff that it comes with and I will think, "sweet, that stuff all looks pretty cool and useful and it all comes as a package."
I see it daily in our store when we talk to customers about how to get the most out of their grill purchase. We tell them what works and as important why it works. We do the same for dealers and you'd be surprised the thanks they offer.
The cool thing about our stuff is, it's an easy add-on system. Start as simple as a rig & stone and grow as your needs or abilities grow. With the Rig and stone, you have all three basic cooking set-ups: low for searing, high for roasting and indirect for bbq. For dealers, an add-on system means continued customer growth.
We had a 3 ring PSWoo w/ platform which is basically the divide and conquer before there was a divide and conquer. Ya'll told us, it's better to have the spider, lower ring, separate as it can do more. So, we made the change. We know how these systems work and where the limitations are. Heck we have a patent on the PSWoo. Does KJoe have a patent on their divide and conquer?
We get calls from kjoe owners who are frustrated and want our stuff. We feel bad when we have to tell them..... you can't do this bge set-up or that one because of the kjoe grill.
Yesterday, I had a guy call you wanted to move from a pellet grill to a ceramic grill. I told him check bge and here is what we can do. While I was typing the post above, he calls back and asks about kjoe. He said the kjoe dealer told him it is a complete package. I reminded him what he wants to do and that package won't do it. Like you said, kjoe is an easy sell but for many folks not the best fit.
When I first bought my egg and googled accessories on the internet, this forum and BGE branded stuff came up. I didn't find out ceramic grill store existed until I had already bought a number of inferior products. I eventually ate the cash I spent and then spent more to get your products. I wish I didn't waste money, but I just didn't know you had better options.
All I am saying is there is a visibility difference between the BGE and your product that works wonderfully with it and KJ supplying everything.Large BGEBBQ Guru DigiQ IIMartensville, Saskatchewan Canada -
Biggreenpharmacist said:@tjv just curious why your stuff doesnt work the KJ?Thank you,DarianGalveston Texas
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Photo Egg said:Biggreenpharmacist said:@tjv just curious why your stuff doesnt work the KJ?
Little Rock, AR
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Biggreenpharmacist said:Photo Egg said:Biggreenpharmacist said:@tjv just curious why your stuff doesnt work the KJ?
My brother has a KJ classic and runs Tom's Adjustable Rig with no issues. He just can not add the cool riser/slide rack.Thank you,DarianGalveston Texas -
Biggreenpharmacist said:@tjv just curious why your stuff doesnt work the KJ?
- early on, not sure if still an issue, on the classic the drop from the felt line to the fire ring was inconsistent, ranging from 3.25 to 3.75 inches. this makes it hard to set a grid at the felt line for sliding.
- the big joe dome is the old bge style dome, not enough headroom to do 3 grids (9 racks) of ribs with easy access to all racks. I believe the kjoe classic dome is a bit smaller on headroom too.
- the kjoe thermometer is screw in, so it hinders using dome space, especially for long meats (ribs) or pizza stones. the thermometer kills some really good space. Can't do the popular rib video set up with R&B Comb and Rig Extender. On the eggs we can pull the up to get it out of the way, a handy feature.
- the lump grate on the big joe is approx. 13", so when dividing the firebox, the lump rolls up the side quicker. this interferes with lump depth => plays with consistent temps at the grid above when searing. steaks in the middle get a nice hot char, steaks along the outer edge getting a fading cooler char. Not so much a problem with the xl egg lump grate, it's almost 18" in diameter => temps in the grate middle are basically at the grate edge.
- can't as effectively divide the firebox on the big joe as on the xl egg. big joe is half zone only. Our Ang-L brackets on the xl egg lump grate are basically pick your zone division. no need for a stone on the xl egg to create dual temperature zones, use the brackets on the large lump grate to do it.
quick list of what came to mind. sorry for long couple of posts on this thread.
t
www.ceramicgrillstore.com ACGP, Inc. -
Thanks guys. Won't ever affect me but I was curious.
Little Rock, AR
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tjv said:
2017 Big Joe II: $1,900
BGE XL: $1,200
Nest: $180
Mates: $160
Ash/Gripper: $60
CGS Woo/Spider: $50
CGS: AR (no extra grate, since KJ only comes with one grate): $90
CGS Heat Deflectors: $60
CGS Ang-L Brackets: $30
Smokeware Chimney Cap: $60
Total: $1,890
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@tjv as the happy owner of an xl egg and kj classic I feel that they cook equally well. Things I like about my kj classic under 1000 shipped to my door(local prices have gone way up not sure why 1200 for lg with mates and p.s. ash tool and grill gripper are extra ); the divide and conquer is a nice option to have out of the box( not that different than a woo), and I like how fast it gets up to temp. Now this last one is a little unfair as my XL is a different animal.
XL BGE, KJ classic, Joe Jr, UDS x2 -
I have had my egg for almost a year and when I bought it I bought the package that had platesetter, nest etc... Really the only accessory I have bought is the pizza stone and peel. Personally I don't see the need for a rotisserie or any thing like that of the nature. If I were to by another kamado style cooker it would definitely be BGE, because when I was shopping around I went to the mothership and asked if they were gonna be running a sale anytime soon, they told me they don't run sales on the eggs and egg packages because that wouldn't be fair to their dealers. To me that says a lot because it was right before a big holiday weekend when they could've had a killer sale.1 LBGE. Winder, GA
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I am enjoying this tread, many good points made all around. It is like the old Avis car rental commercial "we're number two, so we try harder." KJ ships parts to your house. That has to be very expensive. If they ever become king of the hill will they continue to do that? Even having to wait on most parts to come in with the next shipment is no biggie. A cracked base would be an exception. A couple times I have had to wait on a part that had cracked, but I was still able to use the egg. When I was a little kid AMF, a company that at that point was only known to the public for bowling lanes, purchased Harley Davidson. They took an unprofitable company and made it worse. But to many Harley owners, one thing they did was the worse. Harley is probably the coolest product the planet has ever seen. AMF goes and slaps their logo on the gas tank. To hear a few of the comments on here you would sweat BGE has gone all AMF.
Avis tried harder, yet they are still one notch under Hertz. The problem for Hertz is, they are one notch under Enterprise. Maybe KJ is not the one to worry about, maybe it is a company that is not yet in existence. -
SemolinaPilchard said:Harley is probably the coolest product the planet has ever seen. AMF goes and slaps their logo on the gas tank. To hear a few of the comments on here you would sweat BGE has gone all AMF.
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stlcharcoal said:SemolinaPilchard said:Harley is probably the coolest product the planet has ever seen. AMF goes and slaps their logo on the gas tank. To hear a few of the comments on here you would sweat BGE has gone all AMF.
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KJ is sold a lot on price, big box stores like Costco have seasonal shows and sell on price. If you start basing your products on price, you have just become a commodity just like bread and milk. The BGE does not chase the price game and they know full well some vendors make awesome accessories, PSWOO, AR,etc. and let them enjoy their niche.I was comparing several kamado's,BGE, KJ, PRIMO and think the BGE was the best and that is why I am an Egger !LBGE, and just enough knowledge and gadgets to be dangerous .
Buford,Ga. -
Markarm4119 said:KJ is sold a lot on price, big box stores like Costco have seasonal shows and sell on price. If you start basing your products on price, you have just become a commodity just like bread and milk. The BGE does not chase the price game and they know full well some vendors make awesome accessories, PSWOO, AR,etc. and let them enjoy their niche.I was comparing several kamado's,BGE, KJ, PRIMO and think the BGE was the best and that is why I am an Egger !
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yljkt said:Just like Harley mandating huge clothing emporiums where they also happen to sell bikes.
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SemolinaPilchard said:yljkt said:Just like Harley mandating huge clothing emporiums where they also happen to sell bikes.
Hahaha......yeah when worked on the ambulance we had this guy that must have been going through a mid-life crisis and bought a import knock off of a HD. First day he comes in wearing a vest with harley patches all over it, black leather boots, harley t-shirt, etc. It's like he reinvented himself. We teased him about it, but he was happy and didn't try to act like he was a bad azz or anything......so, good for him. -
Markarm4119 said:The BGE does not chase the price gameThank you,DarianGalveston Texas
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I love my eggs, but I too think BGE is asleep. Look at all the 3rd party accessories that are offered: Woos, adjustable rigs, kick ash baskets, and more. If BGE was innovating, they would have innovated all of that stuff before other folks. I think the culture there is mired in the way they always did it. Without a culture change, they will wither. Fortunately my eggs should last the rest of my life, I will not be shopping for any others.XLBGE, Small BGE, Homebrew and GuitarsRochester, NY
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Cookinbob said:I love my eggs, but I too think BGE is asleep. Look at all the 3rd party accessories that are offered: Woos, adjustable rigs, kick ash baskets, and more. If BGE was innovating, they would have innovated all of that stuff before other folks. I think the culture there is mired in the way they always did it. Without a culture change, they will wither. Fortunately my eggs should last the rest of my life, I will not be shopping for any others.
They're not going to release a whirl of major improved unless they were going to jack the price up, which they didn't this year.
C'mon, how many cars still don't have LED headlights on them? A bunch.
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Cookinbob said:I love my eggs, but I too think BGE is asleep. Look at all the 3rd party accessories that are offered: Woos, adjustable rigs, kick ash baskets, and more. If BGE was innovating, they would have innovated all of that stuff before other folks. I think the culture there is mired in the way they always did it. Without a culture change, they will wither. Fortunately my eggs should last the rest of my life, I will not be shopping for any others.
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primo always interested me. first got interested from this
videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7VRPIYaRCM
id rather have the primo than a kamado joe, i think think the oval shape probably helps the two zone effect. id want to make sure that customer service and everything else was equal though
that being said, i love my egg! not in the market for anything new“There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
Coach Finstock Teen Wolf -
BGE is the original (for American market).
Americans love to customize their stuff. There is a market for turn-key (KJ) and tuner (BGE).
I like what KJ has done, but prefer to pick my own internals. I like the D&C, but truthfully prefer two eggs for dual zone. Woo2 (thanks @tjv ) with a stone does 99% of what I want. I have that setup in all three of my eggs.
The swing grate from Smokeware (grate stacker) is the icing on the cake for my XL. Not to mention my SW caps and thermos, those are the cherries.They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That's against their interests. - George Carlin -
Hans61 said:primo always interested me. first got interested from this
videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7VRPIYaRCM
id rather have the primo than a kamado joe, i think think the oval shape probably helps the two zone effect. id want to make sure that customer service and everything else was equal though
that being said, i love my egg! not in the market for anything newThank you,DarianGalveston Texas -
IMO I think they have priced the KJ too high. I think most buyers are going to price out the basics (egg+ nest+plate setter) vs a KJ and the KJ will be way more expensive. Here in GA I think BGE still has the brand recognition, so most consumers are going to think "why would I pay more for a knock off??".
I like all of the innovations and I think there are plenty of people that will be willing to pay for them; but I suspect the price is going to come down once sales start to drop.
Which came first the chicken or the egg? I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. -
SemolinaPilchard said:yljkt said:Just like Harley mandating huge clothing emporiums where they also happen to sell bikes.
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