Brisket Discussion: How to keep it from tasting like roast beef.

YEMTrey

This topic came up in  a separate thread so I decided to start a proper new thread to house it.  It was stated that someone cooked a brisket and it tasted like roast beef.  I've had this happen before with one of the briskets I've smoked as well.  For us non-Texans who haven't yet had the privilege of tasting Texas brisket, how does this happen, and how do you prevent it in future?  Thanks in advance!  @SGH  @cazzy @nolaegghead @Thatgrimguy and others.

fishlessman

for me, cooked too hot, roastbeef/steak taste/texture ( i do this on purpose some times)  texas crutch gets me potroast, if i want potroast i dont buy brisket

nolaegghead

Lots of smoke - preferably oak - and cook it 250-300 until it just gets tender like butter all over the flat - esp the thickest part.   Once you develop a bark that's perfect, you can wrap in paper and cook until the tenderness check passes.  Let it cool down and when you carve into it, just cut as needed to immediately eat.

I think the smoke and tenderness differentiate it from roast beef, which is cooked much less with little or no smoke. 

Fishlessperson has a point with the turbo cook.  I do notice a more roast beef flavor when they're turbo'd.  Maybe because there's less smoke? 

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

Lots of smoke - preferably oak - and cook it 250-300 until it just gets tender like butter all over the flat - esp the thickest part.   Once you develop a bark that's perfect, you can wrap in paper and cook until the tenderness check passes.  Let it cool down and when you carve into it, just cut as needed to immediately eat.

I think the smoke and tenderness differentiate it from roast beef, which is cooked much less with little or no smoke. 

Fishlessperson has a point with the turbo cook.  I do notice a more roast beef flavor when they're turbo'd.  Maybe because there's less smoke? 

when i go 350 for 5 or 6 hours i literally get a log of oak out of the wood pile and split it up, it really isnt the smoke on a fast/hot cook, its that roast/steak like texture. i also go direct on these cooks, the whole yard gets smoked out. i even get a descent smoke ring, this one was over 140 internal in under 2 hours which defies alot of pitmaster logic i need to try the paper one of these days

nolaegghead

Let's coin a new expression: "heat aged".  Where the temp is brought slowly up (as in a low n slow), the meat spends all kinds of time at those varying hot temperatures, and all kinds of breakdown and chemical reactions occur which result in a more "brisket-like" flavor vs a more roast beef-like flavor.

jeffwit

"Heat aged"

saluki2007

^^^eye bleach...stat!

nolaegghead

Old lady jerky.  UP THE SPF!!!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Oh wow- I'll never get that pic out of my mind. It's like something about Mary gone even more wrong. 

I can say that even when I do briskets the exact same way I always do, they can come off with very little smoke flavor. I think it's the tiny smoldering fire and limited amount of exposure to good clean smoke. I get really frustrated with my egg on briskets more than anything else. Sometimes they are home-run "Franklin-esque" and others they taste like pot roast. They are so unpredictable that I've pretty much stopped doing them. Looking for a stick burner or vertical to do my low and slows on. 

Thatgrimguy

I find the biggest culprit to "pot roast" is the foil wrap. Especially if you add liquid. Braising just tastes like pot roast IMO.  I find the butcher paper wrap or no wrap to help keep from pot roast texture. The other factors come from a lack of flavor (not using enough rub) And under smoking which comes back to the wrap.

milesvdustin

Wow, those things are fake!

SGH

@YEMTrey
First let me say that I'm honored to be included in the fine company that you called out to. Thank you my friend. 
You posed a question that is not compound, however the answer is compound. Allow me, if I may, to offer what I can. 
The number one culprit is "steaming". Plain and simple. More often than not, when brisket takes on the "pot roast" taste, it's from over steaming. This can be caused by to much time in a wrap be it foil, pan, and yes, even paper. You can even over steam simply in your cooking environment if conditions are right. This is the least likely to happen so I won't elaborate, but did want to point out that in the right cooker under the right circumstances that it is certainly possible. 
For clarity, I'm not saying not to wrap. Heck, I advocate it. But there is a dwell point where the meat simply steams to long no matter what you wrap it with save for using Jet Net or such. Plain and simple. 
Next, the meat quality it's self. Meat that lacks adequate adipose and connective tissue will lack the "depth" of taste that properly marbled meat has. Because it is so lean, it simply looses its taste when totally cooked down until tender. Thus, it's akin to pot roast. 
Combine the two, poor quality and over steaming, and you get pot roast on steroids for lack of a better word. As with most things, there are a handful of other things than can contribute to the end result. But from what I have seen the two biggest culprits are over steaming and meat quality it's self. Some say that cooking at high temps can cause it. But myself, Cen-Tex and Nola ran a load of briskets at 440 degrees with pretty good luck. I have since ran several at 375-425 degrees with good luck. Thus, me personally, I rule out cooking at high temps as a culprit. Hope this helps a little my friend. And good luck in the future. 

YukonRon

Grade of meat, type of rub, and prevalence of smoke and variety thereof. Currently, I do not use foil, I wrap and let sit for a couple hours, after the brisket tells me it is done. I have learned to get the killer results from you all, and experimenting.
Early on, I had the pot roast/roast beef results. Not so much as of late, thanks to what I have learned on this forum and these threads.

Thatgrimguy

nolaegghead said:

Let's coin a new expression: "heat aged".  Where the temp is brought slowly up (as in a low n slow), the meat spends all kinds of time at those varying hot temperatures, and all kinds of breakdown and chemical reactions occur which result in a more "brisket-like" flavor vs a more roast beef-like flavor.

I've done some briskets at 350 and they tasted nothing like pot roast. In fact the one I did at the KOA a few weeks ago was done hot and fast and it was fantastic. 

YEMTrey

Thanks for the input.  I have never wrapped a brisket I've cooked on my Egg.  Guess I'll mess with smoke and temps to see what happens next time.

robnybbq

jeffwit - you owe me a new monitor.  Just spit out my drink all over it.  Thanks

Carolina Q

So, wait. If I were to intentionally cook a brisket the same as a pot roast, it would taste like pot roast? Does it end up tender like pot roast? Chuck (pot) roast is 5- $6 per lb. I can sometimes find a packer for half that!

And besides, I've never cooked a pot roast I didn't like. Never cooked a brisket I DID.

Jupiter Jim

jeffwit said:

"Heat aged"

It's Rocking her world!!!!

Thatgrimguy

YEMTrey said:

Thanks for the input.  I have never wrapped a brisket I've cooked on my Egg.  Guess I'll mess with smoke and temps to see what happens next time.

What temp are you cooking at? I like 275 for brisket on my egg.

YEMTrey

Like with all my cooks, I keep it as simple as possible.   Lite bit of rub on the brisket, indirect with some oak, keeping the temp between 250-275 depending on timing and progression.

blind99

YEMTrey said:

Like with all my cooks, I keep it as simple as possible.   Lite bit of rub on the brisket, indirect with some oak, keeping the temp between 250-275 depending on timing and progression.

what kind of rub, and how light?  like 'pot roast' meat, brisket can be pretty bland.  if you're light on flavor, and it gets fall apart tender, there's not much difference from pot roast.

i don't consider myself a brisket expert so take this FWIW: i think brisket can handle a lot of seasoning, and a lot of smoke.   i typically use oak or pecan which i find similar to oak.  Most cooks on the egg I don't use much wood. a chunk or two for chicken, ribs. but brisket i'll use at least 8 fist sized pieces and may add more depending on the size of the brisket.

nolaegghead

It's ok to go light on the rub.  As long as you maintain a healthy amount of salt.  By healthy, I mean not light.

Thatgrimguy

Overcooked or sliced against the grain can also lead to PRS (Pot Roast Syndrome).  What brand beef are you buying?  Can you get CAB to compare against. You set up and approach sounds like it should produce great brisket as long as you pull it off at the right time.  The "briskets" I can buy at my local Winn Dixie never seem to taste right. But the supreme angus full packers I get at RD come through much more often. The Prime CAB I have been getting is even easier to nail.

northGAcock

@YEMTrey .....You sure you are holding you mouth right?


That could be your problem.....

YEMTrey

@northGAcock , oh no doubt I'm a knuckle draggin', mouth breather. I've never claimed to be more than that. But I'm smart enough to know to go to those smarter than oneself to get answers.
Getting ready for the 2nd night of the show.  Cheers!

northGAcock

Lol.....just bustin on ya. Enjoy the show!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

 But myself, Cen-Tex and Nola ran a load of briskets at 440 degrees with pretty good luck.

i Agree that temp in not the issue but that was in your vault. I say the egg is the issue. i love my eggs but after seeing your vault in action and eating off many offsets, there is no comparison. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Carolina Q said:

So, wait. If I were to intentionally cook a brisket the same as a pot roast, it would taste like pot roast? Does it end up tender like pot roast? Chuck (pot) roast is 5- $6 per lb. I can The point would find a packer for half that!

And besides, I've never cooked a pot roast I didn't like. Never cooked a brisket I DID.

the point would shred and taste like roast and you could grind up the flat for burgers. a brisket flat would not make a good pot roast. 

you would not (nor would I)  like a brisket if it was not prepared well. not to be snarky but you probably have not been exposed to it the way we have down here. Not saying you would like it even if you had a good one but there is a sweet spot that many have probably not experienced. I may not enjoy your local delicacy  the way you do even if it were prepared in the way that is perfect for you. I don't like most of the brisket i eat so i get it. But when it's right...there is nothing better. Even here, the perfect bite of brisket is like finding a unicorn sliding down a rainbow with skittles shooting out its ass. 

lousubcap

After reading the above thru a bit of an evening haze, I am inclined to believe that the major culprit is the foil wrap during the cook, or immediately after getting the finish-line feel and not letting the carry-over cooking stop before the wrap.   Adding any liquid to the wrap process will enhance the braising impact and further compound the issue.  
A good kosher salt along with fresh ground pepper and some garlic and smoked paprika rub will produce an outstanding bark if left to ride to the finish-line w/o any foil help.  No experience with butcher paper as  I run nekked til done.
That said, I have never run into the roast beef/pot roast flavor or texture profile.  Of course, by the time I'm slicing the brisket my taste-buds have been soaking in adult supervisory beverages for the duration of the cook.  And I have never run hot& fast with a brisket cook   FWIW-

The Cen-Tex Smoker

 I have never used foil on a brisket in my life.

Hoss

Carolina Q said:

So, wait. If I were to intentionally cook a brisket the same as a pot roast, it would taste like pot roast? Does it end up tender like pot roast? Chuck (pot) roast is 5- $6 per lb. I can sometimes find a packer for half that!

And besides, I've never cooked a pot roast I didn't like. Never cooked a brisket I DID.

You eat chopped BBQ!!   What's up Old Friend??? ;-)