OT - Umpqua Community College

GATraveller

Prayers for all those affected by such senseless violence.  I'll never understand it. 

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/1/report-deadly-shooting-at-oregon-college.html

Edit - fixed link

DoubleEgger

The link wouldn't work for me so here's another link. Thoughts and prayers for everyone involved in yet another senseless tragedy. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/

BRush00

Here's hoping any eggheads in the area are all safe and sound.

Keep your families close.

jaydub58

It ;is just astounding......................I am about 90 miles north of Roseburg right on I-5, and I just can't wrap my head around someone doing anything like this.  As the day wears on, the rest of the heart-breaking details will emerge.

Sardonicus

The President of the United States.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skzpSW6OWeI

Lit

Damn looks like it's gonna be hard to find ammo again...

Sardonicus

Lit said:

Damn looks like it's gonna be hard to find ammo again...

LOL
Freedom ain't free.
(Paranoia neither)
  

DoubleEgger

Oh my 

http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/

Darby_Crenshaw

There has to be more to the story. Thirteen people died. 

I can't imagine some one stood in a line and answered 'christian' after seeing twelve others before them get shot in the head after answering the same. 

Other stories say it was frantic, not orderly.

doesn't add up 

HeavyG

The Oregon event wasn't even the only multiple casualty shooting today. There was another multiple fatality shooting in Florida early this evening.

'Murica!

Skiddymarker

HeavyG said:

The Oregon event wasn't even the only multiple casualty shooting today. There was another multiple fatality shooting in Florida early this evening.

'Murica!

294 "multiple" (more than four) this year. Roseburg is a fantastic little place, have stayed there a few times. Thoughts are with the community. 

bgebrent

Tragic loss of innocent life, tragic.  Too sad there wasn't a good guy with a gun in the room, religious or atheist, good guy with a gun was lacking.  So sad.

YukonRon

bgebrent said:

Tragic loss of innocent life, tragic.  Too sad there wasn't a good guy with a gun in the room, religious or atheist, good guy with a gun was lacking.  So sad.

I agree. This is awful. They had no chance. 

JohnInCarolina

Skiddymarker said:

HeavyG said:

The Oregon event wasn't even the only multiple casualty shooting today. There was another multiple fatality shooting in Florida early this evening.

'Murica!

294 "multiple" (more than four) this year. Roseburg is a fantastic little place, have stayed there a few times. Thoughts are with the community. 

So we've had more mass shootings in America than there are days in the year so far.  Man...

I guess a lot of people are desensitized to these things by now, but I'm not.  Maybe it's because I work at a University or have little kids, I don't know.  Sh!t still gets to me.

DaveRichardson

Its shameful that these events happen.  But its not a gun control thing.  Its a mental health issue that has been ignored by the medical and political institutions.  I am in medicine, thank God its only Orthopaedics, but I feel confident in saying that the mental health divisions have been far overlooked and under-funded.

aukerns08

DaveRichardson said:

Its shameful that these events happen.  But its not a gun control thing.  Its a mental health issue that has been ignored by the medical and political institutions.  I am in medicine, thank God its only Orthopaedics, but I feel confident in saying that the mental health divisions have been far overlooked and under-funded.

Says the guy with a shotgun as his handle pic...  While I agree with you that the mental health issue in America is quite disturbing and I have made this same argument in the past, this shooting and the live TV first person shooter style one we just endured have really gotten to me.  I'm ready for some sort of change because I'm tired of seeing them myself, I'm tired of thinking of ways to explain this to my kid as he gets older, I'm tired of having the monthly dinner conversation with my wife about a mass shooting in X, I'm just tired of it.  At this point to make a change it's probably much easier to start with guns and continue to work and develop mental health programs and policies just due to resources.  We can't increase the number of mental health experts or resources over night but we can change gun laws.  I hunt, I own guns and I don't want to give them up or think I'd have to under a changed law, but at this point something has to be done.  We can't keep burying our heads in the sand and say it's ok they used a gun because it's a mental health issue.  

stlcharcoal

aukerns08 said:

DaveRichardson said:

Its shameful that these events happen.  But its not a gun control thing.  Its a mental health issue that has been ignored by the medical and political institutions.  I am in medicine, thank God its only Orthopaedics, but I feel confident in saying that the mental health divisions have been far overlooked and under-funded.

 We can't increase the number of mental health experts or resources over night but we can change gun laws.  I hunt, I own guns and I don't want to give them up or think I'd have to under a changed law, but at this point something has to be done.  We can't keep burying our heads in the sand and say it's ok they used a gun because it's a mental health issue.  

Oregon DID tighten their gun laws.  "Universal background checks" closing the so called "loophole" and more.  Didn't seem to work here. 

JohnInCarolina

DaveRichardson said:

Its shameful that these events happen.  But its not a gun control thing.  Its a mental health issue that has been ignored by the medical and political institutions.  I am in medicine, thank God its only Orthopaedics, but I feel confident in saying that the mental health divisions have been far overlooked and under-funded.

My problem with this argument is that we are far from the only country with mental health problems.  I'm all for doing more for mental health, but I don't think it's anything close to a panacea when it comes to mass shootings.

aukerns08

stlcharcoal said:

aukerns08 said:

DaveRichardson said:

Its shameful that these events happen.  But its not a gun control thing.  Its a mental health issue that has been ignored by the medical and political institutions.  I am in medicine, thank God its only Orthopaedics, but I feel confident in saying that the mental health divisions have been far overlooked and under-funded.

 We can't increase the number of mental health experts or resources over night but we can change gun laws.  I hunt, I own guns and I don't want to give them up or think I'd have to under a changed law, but at this point something has to be done.  We can't keep burying our heads in the sand and say it's ok they used a gun because it's a mental health issue.  

Oregon DID tighten their gun laws.  "Universal background checks" closing the so called "loophole" and more.  Didn't seem to work here. 

I saw a headline about that as well.  Admittedly I haven't read much about the law or the shooter out of exhaustion on this matter but I saw that the law was just put in place this year, to argue that it didn't work in this case we would have to assume 2 things.  1. That the shooter purchased his gun in Oregon, (2) and the purchase was made during this year after the law was actually put in place.  I haven't seen/heard details on those yet.

stlcharcoal

aukerns08 said:

I saw a headline about that as well.  Admittedly I haven't read much about the law or the shooter out of exhaustion on this matter but I saw that the law was just put in place this year, to argue that it didn't work in this case we would have to assume 2 things.  1. That the shooter purchased his gun in Oregon, (2) and the purchase was made during this year after the law was actually put in place.  I haven't seen/heard details on those yet.

He couldn't have [legally] purchased it out of state without a background check.  Sales between individuals across state lines have been illegal for 50 yrs.  And if he did buy it out of state from a licensee, they would need to impose his own state's restrictions on him (e.g. an IL resident buys a shotgun from a MO FFL, he still has to have a FOID card and wait 24 hrs just like he would in IL.)  Anytime a firearms ownership crosses a state line, a FFL has to conduct the transfer and a background check occurs.

And if he did buy if before the law went into effect, still proof positive why that law didn't work.  How many law-abiding individual's sales it stopped this year, but it didn't stop this one.  Maybe it will prevent something in the future, but just making a point that waving the wand and saying "universal backgrounds for all!" doesn't necessarily work.

I'm sure we'll know more soon so we should not be making assumptions.

GATraveller

You're not going to legislate a solution like Washington wants you to believe.  It's a mental health/morality issue.

JohnInCarolina

GATraveller said:

You're not going to legislate a solution like Washington wants you to believe.  It's a mental health/morality issue.

The mental health part is debatable.  One of the more recent studies indicates that they're only the perps in about 5 percent of the cases.  They're more likely to be victims.

Legume

this is so similar to the climate change/beef is bad thread.  what is the point of arguing single-dimension causality or solutions?  Is it just easier to make your point?  isn't that the same approach that gave us margarine?  do you really think this is gun-control OR mental health management?

it's fine to break problems down to their component parts to solve, but to assume complex issues like these have a one dimensional solution strikes me as too simple.  I wish my problems were that simple.

DaveRichardson

Yes, @aukerns08, I do have a shotgun as my profile pic.  Have you been a victim of a violent crime?  I have.  My house, back when I was in Mississippi, was stormed by 3 armed intruders hell-bent on taking everything they could that I have rightfully purchased thru hard work and determination.  Two did not make it out the house alive.  One is missing a leg while he is in prison in Mississippi.  I stopped the law-breaking SOB's that had terrorized others in our area.

Did they buy their guns legally?  No, they STOLE them.  Background checks are fine with me.  But will all weapon acquisition be done thru the legal avenues?  Nope!

The guys in Columbine took guns from their parents.  The guy in New Town took the gun from his mother.  Would background checks have worked there?  Nope.

I am in the camp that Gun Control means Hitting Your Target.  My views have changed a little since the home invasion.  I don't like talking about it.  But the "Background checks" and "Regulations" won't matter when people take guns from law abiding citizens and then go commit atrocities.

JohnInCarolina

A Vet charged the shooter and probably saved more than a few people in the process:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291

I'd like to see this story get a lot more attention than it probably will.  

theyolksonyou

I saw that. He was shot five times, reportedly, but expected to live. There seems to be a swell on twitter to make him the story rather than the shooter. 

leemschu

DaveRichardson said:

Yes, @aukerns08, I do have a shotgun as my profile pic.  Have you been a victim of a violent crime?  I have.  My house, back when I was in Mississippi, was stormed by 3 armed intruders hell-bent on taking everything they could that I have rightfully purchased thru hard work and determination.  Two did not make it out the house alive.  One is missing a leg while he is in prison in Mississippi.  I stopped the law-breaking SOB's that had terrorized others in our area.

Did they buy their guns legally?  No, they STOLE them.  Background checks are fine with me.  But will all weapon acquisition be done thru the legal avenues?  Nope!

The guys in Columbine took guns from their parents.  The guy in New Town took the gun from his mother.  Would background checks have worked there?  Nope.

I am in the camp that Gun Control means Hitting Your Target.  My views have changed a little since the home invasion.  I don't like talking about it.  But the "Background checks" and "Regulations" won't matter when people take guns from law abiding citizens and then go commit atrocities.

I'm sorry you had that happen. I carry everywhere I can even at home for the same reason. All gun control does is keep good people  from having the needs to stop a bad guy with a gun. And a bad guy that wants a gun is going to get a gun whether the government says you can have them or not.

tarheelmatt

JohnInCarolina said:

A Vet charged the shooter and probably saved more than a few people in the process:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291

I'd like to see this story get a lot more attention than it probably will.  

Guy was from Randelman, just a bit from me.  True Hero!  AND on his son's birthday!  Talk about not being selfish.  

GATraveller

JohnInCarolina said:

GATraveller said:

You're not going to legislate a solution like Washington wants you to believe.  It's a mental health/morality issue.

The mental health part is debatable.  

I agree with you and don't think mental health is applicable to this case (other than to say anyone who would do something like this is a nut).  From what I can tell so far this guy is a radical muslim/muslim sympathizing terrorist who feels like Christians are his/their enemy.  I'm afraid this will be the new norm here in the US as well as Europe and the rest of the world due to the current Jihad.  It will never be a "live and let live" situation for these radicals.  Attacks like these are not a gun control issue because it has nothing to do with guns.....just like 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombing.  These are people who want to kill us based solely on who we are and will employ any/all means necessary to accomplish these twisted ideals.  I think the POTUS was remiss in his speech last night to address it as an issue of gun control and not the terrorist attack that it really was.      

Fred19Flintstone

I work in one of the most violent cities in America and I live just outside it.  I carry when not at work.  My oldest daughter has expressed an interest in getting a CPL.  Violence and evil are widespread in this world.  I don't go looking for it, but if violence and evil are visited upon me & my family, I'm going to do my best to take it out before we're harmed.

Speaking of gun control, here's some pretty good gun control.

Eggcelsior

GATraveller said:

JohnInCarolina said:

GATraveller said:

You're not going to legislate a solution like Washington wants you to believe.  It's a mental health/morality issue.

The mental health part is debatable.  

I agree with you and don't think mental health is applicable to this case (other than to say anyone who would do something like this is a nut).  From what I can tell so far this guy is a radical muslim/muslim sympathizing terrorist who feels like Christians are his/their enemy.  I'm afraid this will be the new norm here in the US as well as Europe and the rest of the world due to the current Jihad.  It will never be a "live and let live" situation for these radicals.  Attacks like these are not a gun control issue because it has nothing to do with guns.....just like 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombing.  These are people who want to kill us based solely on who we are and will employ any/all means necessary to accomplish these twisted ideals.  I think the POTUS was remiss in his speech last night to address it as an issue of gun control and not the terrorist attack that it really was.      

Huh?

The dude's verified profile states that he "dislikes organized religion", is "non-religious yet spiritual" and prefers Paganism/Wiccan if anything.

If anything, dude was a witch, not a jihadist.