Dried out reverse seared burgers?

SmokyBear

Hey, gang..

Tried (yet again!) to do a reverse sear burger on the Mini and am baffled as to why they keep drying out so much.  Here's what I'm doing..

- Grind my own meat..50% chuck roast, 50% sirloin.  (Have tried both coarse and finer grind - no real difference)

- 4-5 oz burgers pretty loosely pushed together into 3/4'' or so pucks.  Very minimal handling.  No salt (just pepper, onion powder and garlic).

- Indirect on Mini at 3-400 for 5 min per side, to about 135..140 (tested with Thermopen)

- Nuke CI skillet at 450-500 till blazing hot

- CI skillet 1 min 30 on 1st side, < 1 min second side

- Rest

When I'm doing the RS, I can HEAR the burgers dripping juice all over the place.  ie: drying out.

Any ideas?  I've googled my heart out and just can't figure this out. I've made some AMAZING food on the Mini, so it drives me nuts that I can't get the hang of burgers!!

TIA..

Ozzie_Isaac

I suspect IT is to high for the first part and sear is to long.  30-45 sec on the sear at most.

Btw, I do my burgers in a skillet with bacon grease for the whole cook.  No reverse sear.

Legume

I've never reverse seared a burger.  I'm not sure you would get the crust you want with that much moisture coming to the surface before you sear.

The only thing I can say is, if it tasted dry and overdone, then it must've been.  Did you temp the final product?  Was the interior color what you wanted?

DoubleEgger

Are your burgers cooked on the mini direct dried out? Wondering if it is a grind issue or cook style issue. Also, out of curiosity, why are you cooking burgers indirect? 

ChokeOnSmoke

What's the internal temp of the meat after the sear?
I'm not real big on reverse sears.  I'd rather sear first and then finish the burger (or whatever meat) slowly up to the temp I want to pull at.  Just my opinion, many ways to skin a cat...

Skiddymarker

If you can, divide the fat and lean before the grind. Weigh it. Get an 80/20 to 85/15 (for reverse sear I prefer 85/15 to 90/10) mix by weight. Make your patties. Do the low and slow at 250º, heat the burgers slowly so you do not render the fat. If they are dripping you are too hot. Get the IT to where you want, maybe 10º below the final, check the surface for moisture and dab dry with paper towel if needed and then sear, quickly, <1 minute.

henapple

Try cooking them at 300 till desired temp...no sear.

minniemoh

henapple said:

Try cooking them at 300 till desired temp...no sear.

Low temp burgers are fantastic and a nice change of pace from my typical 5-600 on the mini. Much different texture and add just a few wood chips for smoke. Love it!

DieselkW

I think @Skiddymarker got it right, your temp is too high on the initial rise to 135f, seems to me you're pulling at the right internal temp if it were a steak, but perhaps the burger continues cooking more than a steak would because the muscle is all broken up in a burger.

I'd be interested in the thermopen IT reading before the sear - how much temp increase do you get between pulling and searing? Maybe you have to pull it way before rare, depending on thickness, to get the desired result. Try 125f.

fishlessman

the thermapen ruined burgers for me, i went back to my old methods withe the exception  20 to 30 minutes in the freezer on plastic cutting board before cooking. this is the tactic, 400/450 degree raised grill, on go burgers, wait for juice to rise to top, flip burger, wait til juice rises to top, add cheese and melt, remove. the partial freeze helps hold the burger together, and im just a one flipper. forget the thermapen and watch the juices rise. i flatten them out to the smaller side of 3/4

fishlessman

i noticed you said rest, resting on a cold plate will suck the juices right out as well, with a good steak you want to rest it on a rack. with burgers i like to put them right into the bun and serve, dont really see a need to rest

Acn

Ozzie_Isaac said:

I suspect IT is to high for the first part and sear is to long.  30-45 sec on the sear at most.

Btw, I do my burgers in a skillet with bacon grease for the whole cook.  No reverse sear.

I do the same for burgers, CI, although I usually use ghee rather than bacon grease.

Skiddymarker

fishlessman said:

the thermapen ruined burgers for me, i went back to my old methods withe the exception  20 to 30 minutes in the freezer on plastic cutting board before cooking. this is the tactic, 400/450 degree raised grill, on go burgers, wait for juice to rise to top, flip burger, wait til juice rises to top, add cheese and melt, remove. the partial freeze helps hold the burger together, and im just a one flipper. forget the thermapen and watch the juices rise. i flatten them out to the smaller side of ¾

Perfect for a direct grilled burger and I agree sometimes too much knowledge is not the best thing, i.e. using the Thermapen. 
The OP was trying to reverse sear - I assume not because it is better, it is just different and produces a slightly different taste. The low part of the cook gives the smoke and seasoning more of a chance to work their magic before development of the charred crust. Things happen a tad slower so the overall cook is easier to control. Reverse sear allows cooking well done burgers, for those who like that kind of thing, without burning. 

Legume

OP asks for help, gets help, never responds?  Maybe he doesn't check the forum that often?

However, now I'm getting hungry for a burger and have lots of ideas!

theyolksonyou

@Skiddymarker true, but is it really a reverse sear if the beginning is 3-400 degrees at 5 min per side?  Not a lot of time for the smoke to do its magic?

I've never tried RS in burgers and I suck at RS on steaks so I'm asking not necessarily arguing. 

NPHuskerFL

I personally haven't ever reverse seared burgers even with thick Jucy Lucy's. I just go straight direct or direct on CI (CI most of the time). On reverse sear I'd pull at 105℉-110℉, rest and CI sear maybe 30 sec per side. Guess I don't see a huge benefit doing this on burgers unless they are crazy thick. 

SmokyBear

Hey, guys..thanks for all the good ideas.  Sounds like I'm cooking them WAY too hot initially, so will try dropping to 250 for the initial indirect part.

I'm doing RS because I'm trying to get a good Maillard reaction crust on the exterior of the burger, and because I didn't want to dry out the inside while also getting a nice brown exterior.

I'm also going to try dropping the CI time to < 1 min per side to see if that helps.

I will say that maybe the whole process of grinding your own meat, doing RS and all that black magic mumbo jumbo is overcomplicating something that 'should' be more simple.  Seems like a lot of you just go direct.  Hard for me to do on the Mini since the fire is so close to the grid, even though I have a Woo.  I don't feel like firing up the Large...err..KJ to do 2 little burgers tho, even tho I have a CGS AR for that and could get them high in the dome for direct.

I did some awesome burgers once direct - store bought burger but we were on vacation and I don't remember what we bought..but I'm pretty sure it wasn't ground sirloin, which for years is what I used (and never got a great result from).  Could have been chuck, maybe ground round - but did it at around 3 min per side (maybe 2 on second - don't remember) slightly raised grid via the Woo on my Mini at around 550 (iirc), and they were probably THE best burgers I ever had.  So, like I said..I'm probably over-complicating things here and should just go back to store bought ground chuck or round and go direct and see what happens..

Thanks for all the response..sorry I didn't respond immediately - dealing with some health and work issues.

- S

Skiddymarker

theyolksonyou said:

@Skiddymarker true, but is it really a reverse sear if the beginning is 3-400 degrees at 5 min per side?  Not a lot of time for the smoke to do its magic?

I've never tried RS in burgers and I suck at RS on steaks so I'm asking not necessarily arguing. 

Maybe did not say it correctly. Two comments above - one quoting @fishlessman who was describing a direct grilled burger not a reverse sear burger and I was trying to say I agree with him for his technique doing a direct higher heat grill cook.
@SmokyBear, the OP, was trying to RS. The low and slow part of the cook (which I said should be indirect at 250º in earlier post) is what gives the time for smoke and rub to work. The other advantage of RS is that the burgers do not shrink as much from the outside, changing a hockey puck into a baseball. Once the low part of the cook is done and @SmokyBear was cooking indirect at way too high a temp, then the burgers are quickly “crusted”. 

theyolksonyou

Skiddymarker said:

(which I said should be indirect at 250º in earlier post)

I didn't go back and reread all the posts so I missed that part. I read yours yesterday the first time. That was my point too. 

SmokyBear

Yeah..I was definitely doing the indirect part too high (300+) and it sounds like that's why they were dripping juices the whole time.  Will drop to 250 and try again.  They just take FOREVER even at 300, tho!

jtcBoynton

From my perspective, reverse sear works great for thick cuts (>1.5"), isn't worth it for thin cuts (<1") and can work for medium cuts although tricky to pull off. The burgers are 3/4" thick to start, which I cannot see being worth trying to reverse sear.  I don't see the value of a reverse sear when you are cooking the interior to well done. The OP seems to be cooking the burgers to well done. 

SmokyBear

No - I was trying to cook to medium, which to us is "a little bit but not much pink".  I wanted to try RS so I could get a nice Maillard reaction brown 'crust' on the exterior of the burger without the inside being more raw than we wanted..

I'm starting to think I should just do direct and see how they turn out..hard on the Mini since the food is so close to the fire..

SmokyBear

PS: I didn't mention this earlier, but I did "dry" the surface of the burgers with a paper towel and then added some fat (melted butter onto the burgers directly) before putting them on the blazing hot CI.

I was able to get an awesome Maillard brown crust on them which is what we wanted.  It was just the insides that were not nearly as juicy as I would have expected, especially given how I used home ground meat that had a ton of fat in it.

Legume

let's see some pics of the next run - I always cook sliders hot in a ci pan to get that crust, nothing beats it.

DaveRichardson

I'd go for the regular searing in the skillet then finishing to the IT desired.  Ground beef is hard to do a reverse on in my experience.  Maybe sear in the skillet in the kitchen in the pan, then bring out to the egg to bring up to temp/color.

fence0407

Only read a few comments above so excuse me if this has been suggested before. I think you are looking for a good crust on the burgers while keeping them moist in the middle, hence the RS technique. 

I would suggest using Mickey's Coffee Rub on your burgers. I normally season the meat in a mixing bowl with whatever I'm feeling for that day. I also mix in 1 egg per pound of meat (no clue if this helps with anything, but it hasn't ruined mine yet). Then after the patties are formed, I put the coffee rub on both sides of the patties. Then I grill them direct at around 450 degrees and typically only turn one time. I've never used a thermometer, just pull them after about 10 min or so when they look ready. Should leave you with a nice outer crust (the coffee rub has brown sugar in it and I think that might be the reason for the crusting) with a juicy inside. Good luck!