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OT subject but worth a main-stream read- OT News Feeds...

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  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Friday Russia-Ukraine update:

    "NATO secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said that only Ukraine can determine the terms of peace negotiations with Russia. He clarified NATO’s position after his chief of staff, Stian Jenssen, suggested that Ukraine could gain NATO membership in exchange for ceding occupied territory to Russia. White House spokesperson John Kirby also dismissed the possibility of exchanging Ukrainian territory for NATO membership. Gaya Gupta reports for the New York Times

    The Biden administration has given its final approval to transfer F-16 training materials to Denmark, allowing Ukrainian pilots to begin training to use the fighter jets. The United States has also told Denmark and the Netherlands, who are leading the effort, it would expedite the transfer of all materials needed to ensure the jets are deployed as soon as the pilots are ready. However, Kyiv has said that they do not expect to be able to use the jets this year. Lara Seligman reports for POLITICO

    Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the critical southeastern city of Melitopol, the U.S. intelligence community has predicted. If true, this would mean Kyiv will not fulfill its primary objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea this year. John Hudson and Alex Horton report for the Washington Post

    Moscow air defenses shot down a drone causing an explosion that damaged a building, Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said. Russia has accused Ukraine of launching the attack. There are no reports of casualties. BBC News reports."

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    From the Washington Post-

    American democracy is cracking. These forces help explain why.  (linked below)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/18/american-democracy-political-system-failures/?utm_
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Russia-Ukraine update Friday- The F-16's won't be there any time soon.

    "The United States just authorized its European allies to transfer F-16s to Ukraine, which paves the way for Kyiv's pilots to begin training as soon as this month, U.S. officials said Thursday. However, because of a months-long training process, no one expects Ukraine to be able to use any of these F-16s against Russian forces until at least next calendar year. 

    Reminder: "A coalition of 11 Western countries — the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Sweden and the United Kingdom — pledged in July to train Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16s," the Associated Press reports. U.S. President Joe Biden first authorized the training program back in May. 

    This new announcement from Washington won't affect the situation on the ground inside Ukraine anytime soon; it's more of a formality for oversight of U.S. weapons sales, especially since Denmark has said it won't transfer any of its F-16s to Ukraine until it receives F-35 fighter jets, which aren't expected until at least October 1. 

    For what it's worth, "American officials have said that Ukraine has identified only eight combat pilots who speak English well enough to start training," the New York Timesreports. "That is fewer than necessary for a single squadron. About 20 others are being sent to Britain this month to learn English.""

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    And a sobering assessment of where the Russia-Ukraine war is today-

    "The conversation about Ukraine’s counteroffensive has shifted from one of excitement to disappointment, as Kyiv’s slow gains lead some U.S. officials and insiders alike to whisper: Should we have listened to Gen. MARK MILLEY?

    In November, the Joint Chiefs chair said Ukraine’s strong military position and upcoming winter season combined to make a good time to consider peace talks. Plus, operations to expel Russian forces out of the whole of Ukraine –— which VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY demands — had a slim chance of success. Administration officials immediately scrambled to assure their counterparts in Kyiv that Milley was riffing and not reflecting a secret sentiment in the White House.

    But listen to Milley lately, and you can hear the implicit “I told you so.”

    “If the end state is Ukraine is a free, independent, sovereign country with its territory intact, that will take a considerable level of effort yet to come,” he told The Washington Post this week. “That’s gonna take a long, long time, but you can also achieve those objectives — maybe, possibly — through some sort of diplomatic means.”

    One U.S. official, who didn’t want to run afoul of the administration by offering real views on the record, said the realities of the counteroffensive are sinking in around Washington. Ukraine’s tactics to preserve troops and equipment, Russia’s dug-in positions and the fight on multiple fronts have led to slow advances, shifting a possible breakthrough further into the future.

    While the U.S. still backs Ukraine’s fight, the official said, “We may have missed a window to push for earlier talks.” The official also stressed, however, that few believe Moscow has been at all serious about negotiations since the war’s start. And no senior leader felt then, or feels now, that the counteroffensive was a mistaken play, considering how Ukraine maintains full support from the West and has had remarkable success throughout the war. Still, the official declared: “Milley had a point.”

    Another U.S. official said the administration is increasingly asking itself this question: “If we acknowledge we’re not going to do this forever, then what are we going to do?”

    Notably, no one is treating Milley like a prophet (and we have no indication the general is acting like he called it right from the start). Many people we talked to hastened to add that Kyiv and Moscow actually discussed peace before, that Ukraine recaptured lost northern territory late last year and that allies at this year’s NATO summit committed to the long-term defense of Ukraine. And consider the politics: The administration would’ve been shouted down for dragging Kyiv to the table before the counteroffensive got underway.

    But the administration’s once-private outlook is more pessimistic than it let on. As the Post revealed Thursday, the U.S. intelligence community assesses that the operation will fail to achieve a key goal: reaching the southeastern city of Melitopol.

    Retaking the city, a Russian logistics hub, has been a crucial piece of Ukraine’s overarching strategy to cut off the land bridge Moscow uses to move its forces and equipment to Crimea and other occupied territories along the Sea of Azov.

    One top general acknowledged the challenges Ukraine is facing in its current operations in a roundtable with reporters Friday. ”Nothing ever goes as well as you had hoped it would go if you could do everything perfectly,” said Gen. JAMES HECKER, commander of U.S. Air Forces Europe and Africa. The fields they are pushing through are so heavily mined that Ukrainian forces are finding five or six mines per square meter, Hecker said.

    “It's definite progress, but it's slow progress. And of course, all of us would like fast progress. But in a situation like this that's heavily defended and fortified, it's very difficult,” he said. “So slow progress is good, better than the alternatives.”

    The administration, however, doesn’t appear like it plans to shift course.

    “President [JOEBIDEN has been clear that any decisions about a negotiated settlement to the war are going to be up to Ukraine and President Zelenskyy. We have been clear about the principle of ‘nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.’ And we are going to continue to focus on doing everything we can to help Ukraine defend its country against Russia’s brutal invasion,” said NSC spokesperson ADRIENNE WATSON."


    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,354
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    This war isn't going to be finished by military means. Russia will outlast the short attention span of the West.
    Right from the start, instead of just sanctioning a few dozen oligarchs the West, and as many of its allies as it could muster should have made ALL Russians persona non grata. No Russian athletes should be permitted to enter any international event/tournament.
    Methinks our current path is only good for the military-industrial complex.


    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,495
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    lousubcap said:
    The fields they are pushing through are so heavily mined that Ukrainian forces are finding five or six mines per square meter, Hecker said.
    I certainly hope that's a typo; but even at a kilometer, frightening as hell.  
    _____________

    Tin soldiers and Johnson's coming...


  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,984
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  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Yep-no real surprise right there.  Third world country at best, unfortunately with a first world bargaining chip (nukes). 
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    The Maui fires-
    A personal perspective from a someone who has spent a whole lot of time in the Hawaiian Islands and just  returned from there on 8/17-
    "All,

    I remind everyone that I have been visiting the Hawaiian Islands yearly (Except during COVID, but I have visited twice a year since then.)  I have personally seen how the islands have changed in many respects, been on Waikiki during the tsunami, seen VOG-volcanic smog, rode out a hurricane as well as other meteorologic phenomena. 

    I have personally seen how the lowlands of the islands have changed from water rich sugarcane and pineapple plantations to savannas covered with invasive waist high grasses as agriculture moved to other countries.  The savannas, un-watered, dry out to straw in the dry season.

    Seen housing made solely of combustibles ( no brick, stone or fire-resistant materials ) go up to meet population and tourist growth.  All buildings, of course, having plastic water piping the modern construction standard.

    Most recently, I landed on Oahu Monday, August 7.  I stay on a high floor in a beachside hotel immediately adjacent to the beach.  The air had an overcast haze I had not previously seen with high sustained winds and pounding surf.  Catamarans were going to sea using motors rather than sails, presumably because of the exceptionally high winds. Meteorologic conditions seemed very unusual. 

    Let me say that I had an extended discussion with tourists who had been relocated to my hotel from Maui after the fires. 

    Putting together my best estimate:

    The high winds on the islands knocked down the old, un-maintained wooden power poles which ran along the cane/pineapple haul roads through the fields.  The downed lines sparked and started fires.  Firefighters fought the fires but water was insufficient because the water authority did not immediately divert water from available streams to firefighting reservoirs.

    The wind direction blew the flames down slope toward Lahaina and the new construction housing.  Local authorities did not activate the tsunami sirens they said because that would have told people to evacuate up slope which was where the fire was.

    As the fire spread into the new construction, the plastic piping melted releasing water onto the ground and depriving firefighters of the water they needed.  As electricity failed, the pumps driving the water system stopped.

    Lahaina is essentially a linear town with the two main evacuation roads running along the coast, the fire was up-slope.  Traffic jams developed immediately as people tried to drive out of town.  At this time, there were no announcements or evacuation control.  Abandoned cars caught fire, their gas tanks exploding and feeding the flames.  Island automobiles are small, light vehicles built of a mix of plastic, aluminum and steel.  The burning gasoline could easily have ignited the plastic and even aluminum, raising the fire's temperature. 

    The high winds blow the flames of gasoline, wood, plastic and other combustibles toward the historic downtown.  The downtown area consisted of old buildings of dried wood which immediately burned.  Think of this all as a flame thrower blanketing the area including flames out onto the boats in the near harbor.  The dried wood of buildings burned but the moist wood of living palm trees and the famous Courthouse banyan tree were scorched but did not burn.

    Ultimately the authorities set up barricades to prevent looters from re-entering the area, even initially excluding local inhabitants.

    This all reminds me of what I have read of the firestorms the US created in Dresden, Tokyo and other Axis cities.  The fires spread very quickly under the effect of the high winds.

    As to the "unusual" clouds northeast of Hawaii referred to in the Malone video, I am not an expert in this area, but they look to me like pixilation effects of a near gray-tone transitions i.e. individual pixels oscillating back and forth from one near color state to another.  On the other hand, I do keep in mind the unusual haze visible around the islands before the Maui fires.

    The only airborne directed energy weapons I know of are lasers not microwave devices.

    The evacuees I spoke with said they had neither seen nor heard of any interaction with Maui authorities.  They made their way to the airport and off island all on their own on regularly scheduled flights.

    I will close by reminding us that the Hawaiian civil authorities are the same organizations that mistakenly activated the ICBM missile alert in 2018."

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,495
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    ^^^ Wow.  
    _____________

    Tin soldiers and Johnson's coming...


  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Monday Russia-Ukraine update:

    "Six people were killed and 144 wounded after a Russian missile struck a theatre in the northern Ukrainian city of Chernihiv on Saturday morning. The U.N. condemned the attack as “heinous,” and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed to respond to the “terrorist attack.” James Waterhouse and George Wright report for BBC News

    A Ukrainian drone was shot down by Russian air defenses in Moscow on Friday, with debris falling near the Expocentre fairgrounds, Russia’s Defense Ministry said. Friday’s attack disrupted air traffic in Moscow. Anastasiia Malenko reports for the Wall Street Journal

    Nearly 500,000 Ukrainian and Russian troops have been killed or wounded since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, U.S. officials said. Russia’s casualties are nearing 300,000, including up to 120,000 deaths. Close to 70,000 are believed to have been killed on the Ukrainian side. Helene Cooper, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, Eric Schmitt, and Julian E. Barnes report for the New York Times

    U.S. cluster munitions are proving effective and have helped Ukraine “significantly increase Russian losses in equipment and in lives,” said Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. “The main benefit is that the enemy is now very scared to go on assault,” soldiers have reported. Many U.S. allies opposed the shipment of cluster munitions to Ukraine, and Human Rights Watch called Biden’s decision “profoundly troubling.” John Hudson and Anastacia Galouchka report for the Washington Post

    Ukraine’s forces are repelling Russian attacks and made modest advances on the eastern front over the past week, a deputy defense minister said today. Ukrainian forces are bracing for attacks in Kupiansk, a town in the Kharkiv region, while Ukrainian forces are advancing south of Bakhmut. Reuters reports. "

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    More Russia-Ukraine from the Washington Post:

    How Ukraine is exploiting Biden’s cluster bomb gamble



    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    And some insights regarding how Russia-Ukraine could play oput for the foreseeable future:
    "Frontline Ukrainian military officers are in brighter spirits lately, the New York Timesreported Sunday. "Even if the counteroffensive has yielded only mixed results so far, with Ukrainian troops slowed by dense Russian minefields and sustained firepower, [those officers] describe previous periods as being tougher than this one," Carlotta Gall writes. However, "Some commanders even talk of a permanent state of conflict" due to the apparent durability of Russian occupation forces. 

    As it currently stands, Russia's invasion and occupation of Ukraine could drag on for years because Kyiv and its allies lack "political goals that are both clear and attainable," Marcus Walker of the Wall Street Journal reported Sunday, citing unnamed Western officials, scholars like Alina Polyakova of the Washington-based Center for European Policy Analysis, Alexander Gabuev of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center in Berlin, and the long-dead Prussian military strategist Carl von Clausewitz. 

    Behind these anxieties lie essentially the same concerns articulated by Lulu Garcia-Navarro of the New York Times, who said less than a month into the invasion: "Putin is betting that the unity the democratic West is exhibiting will dissipate under the weight of refugees and high gas and food prices. The West is betting that sanctions and isolation will pressure the authoritarian Kremlin to buckle. This is a fight over which system will win."

    But perhaps the most dominant consideration for the White House remains avoiding an "uncontrolled escalation that leads to a direct war with Russia or to Putin using nuclear weapons," as the Journal put it. That leaves a sort of Catch-22, Walker reports: "Without a battlefield breakthrough, Kyiv doesn't want to negotiate peace—and Moscow doesn't have to.""


    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Tuesday Russia-Ukraine update:

    "Ukrainian civilians and private enterprises are developing drones for use on the front line. The large increase in this cottage industry is the result of years-long corruption and inefficiency in the state arms sector, as well as a growing concern that the U.S. elections could affect weapons procurement. Veronika Melkozerova reports for POLITICO

    Two Ukrainian drones were shot down over the Bryansk region, Russia’s defense ministry said. Flights were temporarily stopped to and from Moscow’s airports earlier today. The ministry also said a Russian warplane had destroyed a Ukrainian reconnaissance boat in the Black Sea near a Russian gas production facility. Emily McGarvey reports for BBC News

    A Russian long-range supersonic bomber has been destroyed in a military airfield in the Novgorod region following a Ukrainian drone strike. The attack indicates Ukraine’s ability to strike targets inside Russian territory. Graeme Baker reports for BBC News.

    Ukraine has ordered the evacuation of the liberated city of Kupyansk as Russian forces attempt to retake the city and Ukrainian forces concentrate their counteroffensive to the south. Around 2,000 people who refuse to leave have signed releases stating they will not hold local authorities responsible for anything that follows the evacuation. Siobhán O’Grady, Heidi Levine, and Serhii Korolchuk reports for the Washington Post. "

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,495
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    This, supposedly, is not satire:
     
    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/vladimir-putin-mouthpiece-claims-ukraine-30758581
     
    ... or is The Daily Star a British equivalent to our Nat'l Enquirer?  (our friends in Britain, let me know).  
    _____________

    Tin soldiers and Johnson's coming...


  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    Botch said:
    This, supposedly, is not satire:
     
    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/vladimir-putin-mouthpiece-claims-ukraine-30758581
     
    ... or is The Daily Star a British equivalent to our Nat'l Enquirer?  (our friends in Britain, let me know).  

    im pretty sure they found hitlers escape door in antartica.....so it must be true
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Wednesday Russia-Ukraine update:

    "Despite reports that Ukraine is struggling to advance along the frontline, Ukraine has not reached a stalemate with Russia, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said. Ukraine is taking territory on a “methodical, systematic basis,” he added. While Ukraine grapples with stiff resistance in the northeast, it has made significant gains in the southeast, according to an Institute for the Study of War assessment. Laura Kelly reports for The Hill

    Ukraine’s counteroffensive is struggling because it has misallocated resources, including troops, U.S. and other Western officials say. Ukrainian commanders have split their forces in two, sending troops to the south and east rather than focusing on the south to achieve the strategic goal of severing the land bridge between Russia and the occupied Crimean Peninsula. Eric Schmitt, Julian E. Barnes, Helene Cooper, and Thomas Gibbons-Neff report for the New York Times.

    A drone struck a building in central Moscow, while air defenses downed two drones in the Mozhaisk and Khimki districts of the Moscow region today. No casualties were reported. Emily McGarvey reports for BBC News

    The United States does not support attacks inside Russia, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said following the latest drone attack on Moscow earlier today. Kanishka Singh reports for Reuters. "

    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • dmchicago
    dmchicago Posts: 4,516
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    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”
    Philly - Kansas City - Houston - Cincinnati - Dallas - Houston - Memphis - Austin - Chicago - Austin

    Large BGE. OONI 16, TOTO Washlet S550e (Now with enhanced Motherly Hugs!)

    "If I wanted my balls washed, I'd go to the golf course!"
    Dennis - Austin,TX
  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,354
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    dmchicago said:

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    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”
    I guess Prigozhin never got close enough to a multi-story building window so Putin had to make other arrangements.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




  • dmchicago
    dmchicago Posts: 4,516
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    HeavyG said:
    dmchicago said:

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    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”
    I guess Prigozhin never got close enough to a multi-story building window so Putin had to make other arrangements.
    I assume he had a window seat.
    Philly - Kansas City - Houston - Cincinnati - Dallas - Houston - Memphis - Austin - Chicago - Austin

    Large BGE. OONI 16, TOTO Washlet S550e (Now with enhanced Motherly Hugs!)

    "If I wanted my balls washed, I'd go to the golf course!"
    Dennis - Austin,TX
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,984
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    HeavyG said:
    dmchicago said:

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    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”
    I guess Prigozhin never got close enough to a multi-story building window so Putin had to make other arrangements.
    In Putin’s Russia… plane crashes you!
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,984
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    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    dmchicago said:

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    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”

    wonder what the over/under was in betting circles
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    judging by all the bleeps, it was hit by a bunch of russian f-bombs
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • Gulfcoastguy
    Gulfcoastguy Posts: 6,308
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    Considering that he had shot down some Russian planes and helicopters during his revolt I guess Putin thought it apt. To bad about the other 9 people in the plane.
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,984
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    Considering that he had shot down some Russian planes and helicopters during his revolt I guess Putin thought it apt. To bad about the other 9 people in the plane.
    Reports are that at least some of them were other Wagner group members.  They probably had it coming.

    The pilots and crew, on the other hand...
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    Here's what I have found on the plane crash:

    'REPORTS THAT PRIGOZHIN KILLED: Russian news sources report that air defenses downed a private jet with Wagner mercenary group boss YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN aboard.

    The downing, which reportedly killed 10 people near Tver in Russia, remains unconfirmed by independent outlets. The Biden administration doesn’t have confirmation of their own “at this time,” a U.S. official said. Biden has been briefed on the crash.

    "We have seen the reports. If confirmed, no one should be surprised. The disastrous war in Ukraine led to a private army marching on Moscow, and now — it would seem — to this," Watson told us.

    If it’s true — and Wagner executives are saying it is — it will fuel suspicion that Russian President VLADIMIR PUTIN got his revenge following the Prigozhin-led mutiny exactly two months ago.

    As CIA Director WILLIAM BURNS said during this year’s Aspen Security Forum: "Putin is someone who generally thinks that revenge is a dish best served cold.

    “In my experience, Putin is the ultimate apostle of payback, so I would be surprised if Prigozhin escapes further retribution for this,” he continued."

    Dropping out of the sky is a much more abrupt finish than dropping out of hotel or apartment window. 
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,413
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    And more on the Prigozhin ride from the sky from The Atlantic- (frictionless conduit here)

    A Very Public Execution in Russia

    A jet plunging out of the sky sends an unmistakable message.

    A plane carrying Yevgeny Prigozhin, the mercenary chief who led a short-lived mutiny two months ago, crashed today in a sparsely populated area northwest of Moscow. According to Russian media, Prigozhin and at least one of his top commanders are dead. As is always the case with breaking news, there is much we don’t know, but the sight of Prigozhin’s jet falling out of the sky suggests that Russian President Vladimir Putin has conducted a public execution of a man who was once a trusted friend but later provided the greatest challenge that the Russian dictator has ever faced.

    Here’s what we do know. The aircraft was one of Prigozhin’s personal business jets. The plane, a widely used Embraer Legacy 600, took off from Moscow and likely was headed toward St. Petersburg, Prigozhin’s base of operations. It was flying at 28,000 feet before it plunged to earth, according to flight-tracking data. A second jet, also believed to belong to Prigozhin, then turned around and landed safely in Moscow, but Russia’s aviation ministry has confirmed that Prigozhin and the Wagner co-founder Dmitry Utkin were listed as passengers on the crashed jet.

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    This is functionally the end of the Wagner Group, which has been among the most effective Russian fighting units in Ukraine. But killing Prigozhin and his lieutenants makes sense, at least according to the Mafia logic that governs Putin’s Kremlin. Prigozhin not only threatened Putin’s authority; he humiliated him. During Prigozhin’s ragged rebellion, Putin was visibly furious, but he soon agreed to meet Prigozhin for a discussion in Moscow. For a gangster boss like Putin, having to meet with the man who betrayed him must have been intolerable: The Russian president has reportedly ordered people killed for far less than marching on the capital.

    If the plane crash was an execution, however, plenty of questions remain. Why now? And why in Russia? There are several indications that this was not a random aviation accident, but a signature move by the Putin regime to remind Russians, and especially Russia’s elites, that no one survives opposing the Kremlin’s master.

    The timing issue may not be all that puzzling. (Why Prigozhin risked being in Russia at all is a larger mystery, but he is, or was, legendarily arrogant.) Although many in both Russia and the West expected Putin to move against Prigozhin almost immediately after the Wagner rebellion last June, his patience may reflect his insecurity. Prigozhin’s almost effortless success in occupying the Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, and the ease with which he marched thousands of men to within some 200 miles of the capital, must have enraged and terrified Putin. The Russian president has probably spent weeks huddled with his most trusted security and military subordinates trying to figure out exactly who knew what about Prigozhin’s plans.

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    Read: Why coups fail

    Rooting out a conspiracy takes time; so does planning a murder. The initial deal between the Kremlin and Prigozhin, brokered by Belarusian President (and Putin crony) Aleksandr Lukashenko, allowed Prigozhin and his men to leave Russia and take shelter in Belarus. But because of that deal, Putin couldn’t kill Prigozhin in Belarus without making a fool of Lukashenko. Likewise, although Prigozhin traveled in dangerous areas—yesterday, he released a video of himself in which he claimed to be in the Sahel—killing him far from home in a place such as Africa might have left some doubt about how he died, or whether he died at all.

    Blowing up a plane flying out of Moscow two months to the day after Prigozhin’s rebellion ended, however, sends an unambiguous message. Unless a bomb was on board, only a military system could shoot down a plane at 28,000 feet, and only a Russian military system would be present so deep inside Russia. (The reported crash site is more than 100 miles northwest of Moscow.) The Russian Ministry of Defense—the object of Prigozhin’s fury during his brief rebellion—would have to be involved in an attack at that distance and altitude. If Putin wanted to send a message that Russian Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu was still in favor and that Prigozhin had to pay for his insolence, this was a clear way to do it.

    Taking down a business jet is also a message to Russia’s elites, who rely heavily on private aviation to get around the country. If Putin is willing to reach out and kill Prigozhin in broad daylight over Russia, no one is safe. (Recall as well that Putin himself is reported to be jumpy about flying; he travels around Russia in a special train, much like Stalin did in his day.)

    One other event in particular suggests a link to Shoigu in this regard: The same day that Prigozhin’s plane went down, two Russian outlets reported that General Sergei Surovikin had been removed from his post as the commander of Russian aerospace forces. Surovikin, nicknamed General Armageddon, was one of the few competent Russian field commanders in Ukraine, but like a series of other Russian generals, he was scapegoated for Russia’s poor military performance and relieved of command. When Prigozhin began his march, Surovikin made what looked very much like a coerced appearance in a video, with a gun in his lap, asking the mutineers to stand down. Rumors flew in Moscow that he knew of Prigozhin’s plans and supported them; he was soon detained (“resting,” according to a Russian official) and disappeared from public view.

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    If Prigozhin’s plot was aimed at Shoigu with Surovikin’s connivance, then destroying his jet in flight using aerospace assets that might have once been under Surovikin’s command is like throwing a Defense Ministry calling card on the burning bodies. Shoigu might be hated, and Surovikin might have been respected, but—again, to put this in a Mafia context—no one takes a shot at an underboss without permission.

    As Ian Fleming’s villain Goldfinger warned James Bond: Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times is enemy action. It’s possible that Prigozhin’s jet suffered a random mishap. It’s possible that the mishap took place exactly two months to the day after Prigozhin’s mutiny. It’s possible that the head of Russia’s air force was relieved at the same time that all this took place. But that’s a hell of a lot of coincidences, especially in a country where few things of importance happen without direction from Red Square.

    Prigozhin has almost certainly been living on borrowed time since last June. But if he is dead in today’s crash, Vladimir Putin has taken his revenge in spectacular fashion. Still to be determined, however, is whether another murder will be enough to quell the growing instability in the streets, boardrooms, and barracks of Russia.""





    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,984
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    @lousubcap - it bears emphasis that Nichols remains one of the foremost US experts on Russia.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,495
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    dmchicago said:
    In a surprise to no one, a plane carrying the mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led a failed coup attempt against Putin, crashed in Russia killing all aboard. Apparently the Kremlin is “investigating.”
    I wish the press would quit using the term "failed coup attempt"; it didn't fail, it was aborted.  Why, we still don't know.  
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    Tin soldiers and Johnson's coming...