The tongue, the nose, and heat

Botch · January 2022

Odd things pop into my head some days.
We all know that the primary flavors (sweet, salty, umami, sour, bitter) come from our tongue, while the more specialized flavors (cinnamon, pumpkin, oregano, leather, lavender, chinese gutter oil, parmesan, chocolate, et al) are actually aromas picked up by our noses.

Where does heat fall in here?

I know heat can be detected on the tongue, but also on the lips, back of the mouth, definitely in the nose, the stomach and regions beyond, even other external places if you've peeled a bushel of Hatch and forget to wash your hands. Is heat not even a flavor, but rather a stimulus? If so, what's it called? And can the tingle from szechuan peppercorns fall into this category too?

I don't have the book Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat; does that author address this at all?

Just an odd thing that popped into my head.

lousubcap · January 2022

@Botch- you should look at the way the perceived experts sample and judge bourbon. Nose is the first assessment. Then they address the tongue tasting and variances from the front, middle and back along with the cheek action. Yes the heat is also addressed but that comes with the "Kentucky Hug."
I will leave the more cooking focused nature of your thread to the experts. (I have read the above mentioned book.) Always opportunity to learn here.

Legume · January 2022

You don’t taste with your eyes or your wanker, but give a good rub after chopping some jalapeños and Lit says the pepper burn is real.

If that helps.

Botch · January 2022

lousubcap said:

@Botch- you should look at the way the perceived experts sample and judge bourbon. Nose is the first assessment. Then they address the tongue tasting and variances from the front, middle and back along with the cheek action. Yes the heat is also addressed but that comes with the "Kentucky Hug."

Cap'n, I was an active member of a local winetasting club for a few years; we didn't do a heat judgement but your bourbon procedure sounds similar, just missing the "swishing" aeration at the front (no idea what a "Kentucky Hug" is but I'm not eager to know). Fun stuff!

JohnInCarolina · January 2022

I thought “Kentucky Hugs” were what was given out as wedding gifts when two cousins marry.

Ike · January 2022

JohnInCarolina said:

I thought “Kentucky Hugs” were what was given out as wedding gifts when two cousins marry.

BOO! Brent dislikes.

lousubcap · January 2022

In the interest of continuing education:
https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/kentucky-chew-kentucky-hug-exactly/

buzd504 · January 2022

I've read (and I don't know if it's true) that heat is more a sensation akin to pain, rather than a "taste". I heard about this in the context of Covid, where people would lose their taste/smell, but could still sense "heat" (chile heat). IOW, it's not so much a taste/smell as it is a nerve stimulation.

northGAcock · January 2022

I am a fan of heat and have recently encountered (local restaurant) a mussels dish that mixes Sambal and charred peaches in its sauce. You mix in the liquor form the mussels and you have found great joy. The blend of heat and sweetness does something to the mussels I have never experienced before. Normally, I enjoy a nice spicy and garlicky red sauce, though I have not met (mussel) a sauce I have not liked.

……and always order extra bread with your mussels.

northGAcock · January 2022

Really just responding to the things that pop into my head part of your original post @Botch…..and Happy New Year to you.

RyanStl · January 2022

Plus you have ouch that temperature is too hot, the whoah this is making me sweat and my mouth burn hot, and then you have the who shoved that swab up my nose and making me cry hot. I like the middle one best, but also love me some wasabi/horse radish.

nolaegghead · January 2022

From what I've read in the past, capsaicin works on nerve cells that are used to sense temperature by lowering the threshold of what is hot to where ambient and body temperature seems very hot. There are a number of isomers of capsaicin and a myriad of other chemicals that are in peppers that are delicious and associated with the heat, but don't have anything to do with it.

You can separate the capsaicin from these other chemicals with a rotary distillation apparatus and add the "other" chemicals to foods (like ice cream) where they have the flavor of hot peppers but none of the heat.

see:

https://polyscienceculinary.com/products/rotary-vacuum-evaporation-system-120v

lousubcap · January 2022

From what I recall (and it has been a while) I anticipated that the "Heat" in the Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat" was Scoville unit related. Turns out is focused on the management of the heat (thermal) applied to whatever you are cooking. FWIW-

Cookbook_Chip · January 2022

This is a great thread. To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish? They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?

NDG · January 2022

Cookbook_Chip said:

This is a great thread. To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish? They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?

My guess is root heat (horseradish, wassabi, etc) doesnt have the oils compared to peppers "capsaicin"? So is that why the root heat hits you like a train, but doesnt linger, as their is no oil, so it does not stay on your tongue?

CTMike · January 2022

lousubcap said:

In the interest of continuing education:
https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/kentucky-chew-kentucky-hug-exactly/

I’d heard of the Kentucky Chew before - was on the commissioning crew for the USS Kentucky - everyone on the crew over age 21 got a special commemorative bottle of Blanton’s. Some retired Admiral and Kentucky native came to the commissioning party and gave a little history on bourbon and how to properly imbibe.

They also served burgoo at the party - wasn’t a fan.

Hadn’t heard of the Kentucky hug before - learn something new every day.

Botch · January 2022

CTMike said:
I’d heard of the Kentucky Chew before - was on the commissioning crew for the USS Kentucky - everyone on the crew over age 21 got a special commemorative bottle of Blanton’s.

In the Air Force, we get a coffee mug.

Mark_B_Good · January 2022

Botch said:

Odd things pop into my head some days.
We all know that the primary flavors (sweet, salty, umami, sour, bitter) come from our tongue, while the more specialized flavors (cinnamon, pumpkin, oregano, leather, lavender, chinese gutter oil, parmesan, chocolate, et al) are actually aromas picked up by our noses.

Where does heat fall in here?

I know heat can be detected on the tongue, but also on the lips, back of the mouth, definitely in the nose, the stomach and regions beyond, even other external places if you've peeled a bushel of Hatch and forget to wash your hands. Is heat not even a flavor, but rather a stimulus? If so, what's it called? And can the tingle from szechuan peppercorns fall into this category too?

I don't have the book Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat; does that author address this at all?

Just an odd thing that popped into my head.

Heat is experienced on the tongue ... and on the area that the sun don't shine when it comes out.

Langner91 · January 2022

NDG said:

Cookbook_Chip said:

This is a great thread. To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish? They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?

My guess is root heat (horseradish, wassabi, etc) doesnt have the oils compared to peppers "capsaicin"? So is that why the root heat hits you like a train, but doesnt linger, as their is no oil, so it does not stay on your tongue?

I am intrigued by horseradish. This website has some interesting facts.

https://horseradish.org/

It claims:

The “hotness” from horseradish comes from isothiocyanate, a volatile compound that, when oxidized by air and saliva, generates the “heat” that some people claim clears out their sinuses. The bite and aroma of the horseradish root are almost absent until it is grated or ground.

NDG · January 2022

Interesting - ever tried the Headless Horseradish hot sauce? Pretty good, mine is lasting forever since I really only use it on beef or other rich dishes.

Langner91 · January 2022

No. I haven't. I will have to keep an eye open for it.

I spend a bit of time in Indianapolis for business. The steak houses there (St. Elmo's and Harry & Izzy's) are known for their strong horseradish cocktail sauce. It is absurd! I love it! The last waitress we had told our table that if you are overcome with the burn from horseradish, all you have to do is breath in the vapors from your alcoholic drink (wine or spirits). I am pretty sure we all looked pretty silly eating shrimp and sniffing our wine!

NDG · January 2022

Yes I love that St Elmo’s cocktail sauce !! We have an Indy trade show every yr - fun to watch that sauce blindside an unsuspecting victim !!

FYI here is the sauce I spoke of Headless Horseradish Hot Sauce https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZHL72G2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glt_fabc_D12D066WTHHQHJY4J4NP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

The tongue, the nose, and heat

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