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The tongue, the nose, and heat

BotchBotch Posts: 12,304
Odd things pop into my head some days.  
We all know that the primary flavors (sweet, salty, umami, sour, bitter) come from our tongue, while the more specialized flavors (cinnamon, pumpkin, oregano, leather, lavender, chinese gutter oil, parmesan, chocolate, et al) are actually aromas picked up by our noses.  
 
Where does heat fall in here?
 
I know heat can be detected on the tongue, but also on the lips, back of the mouth, definitely in the nose, the stomach and regions beyond, even other external places if you've peeled a bushel of Hatch and forget to wash your hands.  Is heat not even a flavor, but rather a stimulus?  If so, what's it called?  And can the tingle from szechuan peppercorns fall into this category too?  
 
I don't have the book Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat; does that author address this at all?  
 
Just an odd thing that popped into my head.  
____________________________________________
"One idiot is one idiot.  Two idiots are two idiots.  10,000 idiots are a political party."   - Franz Kafka
        

Comments

  • lousubcaplousubcap Posts: 25,014
    @Botch- you should look at the way the perceived experts sample and judge bourbon.  Nose is the first assessment. Then they address the tongue tasting and variances from the front, middle and back along with the cheek action. Yes the heat is also addressed but that comes with the "Kentucky Hug."
    I will leave the more cooking focused nature of your thread to the experts.  (I have read the above mentioned book.)  Always opportunity to learn here.  
    Louisville; "indeterminate Jim" here.  Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!
  • LegumeLegume Posts: 12,021
    You don’t taste with your eyes or your wanker, but give a good rub after chopping some jalapeños and Lit says the pepper burn is real.  

    If that helps.
  • BotchBotch Posts: 12,304
    lousubcap said:
    @Botch- you should look at the way the perceived experts sample and judge bourbon.  Nose is the first assessment. Then they address the tongue tasting and variances from the front, middle and back along with the cheek action. Yes the heat is also addressed but that comes with the "Kentucky Hug."
    Cap'n, I was an active member of a local winetasting club for a few years; we didn't do a heat judgement but your bourbon procedure sounds similar, just missing the "swishing" aeration at the front (no idea what a "Kentucky Hug" is but I'm not eager to know).  Fun stuff!  
    ____________________________________________
    "One idiot is one idiot.  Two idiots are two idiots.  10,000 idiots are a political party."   - Franz Kafka
            
  • JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina Posts: 22,236
    I thought “Kentucky Hugs” were what was given out as wedding gifts when two cousins marry.  
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike

    Ruining the forum, one post at a time.  

    Living large in the 919
  • IkeIke Posts: 192
    I thought “Kentucky Hugs” were what was given out as wedding gifts when two cousins marry.  
    BOO!  Brent dislikes.
    Owensboro, KY.  First Eggin' 4/12/08.  Large, small, 22" Blackstone and lotsa goodies.
  • lousubcaplousubcap Posts: 25,014
    Louisville; "indeterminate Jim" here.  Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!
  • buzd504buzd504 Posts: 3,580
    I've read (and I don't know if it's true) that heat is more a sensation akin to pain, rather than a "taste".  I heard about this in the context of Covid, where people would lose their taste/smell, but could still sense "heat" (chile heat).  IOW, it's not so much a taste/smell as it is a nerve stimulation.
    NOLA
  • northGAcocknorthGAcock Posts: 14,973
    I am a fan of heat and have recently encountered (local restaurant) a mussels dish that mixes Sambal and charred peaches in its sauce. You mix in the liquor form the mussels and you have found great joy. The blend of heat and sweetness does something to the mussels I have never experienced before. Normally, I enjoy a nice spicy and garlicky red sauce, though I have not met (mussel) a sauce I have not liked. 

    ……and always order extra bread with your mussels. 
    Johns Creek GA with a Large & a 17" Blackstone........Medium & MiniMax in storage

    Well, I married me a wife, she's been trouble all my life,
    Run me out in the cold rain and snow
  • northGAcocknorthGAcock Posts: 14,973
    Really just responding to the things that pop into my head part of your original post @Botch…..and Happy New Year to you. 
    Johns Creek GA with a Large & a 17" Blackstone........Medium & MiniMax in storage

    Well, I married me a wife, she's been trouble all my life,
    Run me out in the cold rain and snow
  • RyanStlRyanStl Posts: 559
    Plus you have ouch that temperature is too hot, the whoah this is making me sweat and my mouth burn hot, and then you have the who shoved that swab up my nose and making me cry hot.  I like the middle one best, but also love me some wasabi/horse radish.
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 39,164
    From what I've read in the past, capsaicin works on nerve cells that are used to sense temperature by lowering the threshold of what is hot to where ambient and body temperature seems very hot.   There are a number of isomers of capsaicin and a myriad of other chemicals that are in peppers that are delicious and associated with the heat, but don't have anything to do with it.

    You can separate the capsaicin from these other chemicals with a rotary distillation apparatus and add the "other" chemicals to foods (like ice cream) where they have the flavor of hot peppers but none of the heat.

    see:

    ______________________________________________
    Just a regular guy that likes to do regular things.
  • lousubcaplousubcap Posts: 25,014
    From what I recall (and it has been a while) I anticipated that the "Heat" in the Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat" was Scoville unit related.  Turns out is focused on the management of the heat (thermal) applied to whatever you are cooking.  FWIW-
    Louisville; "indeterminate Jim" here.  Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!
  • Cookbook_ChipCookbook_Chip Posts: 1,297
    This is a great thread.  To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish?  They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?
    Lovin' my Large Egg since May 2012 (Richmond, VA) ... and makin' cookbooks at https://FamilyCookbookProject.com
    Stoker II wifi, Thermapen, and a Fork for plating photo purposes
  • NDGNDG Posts: 2,210
    This is a great thread.  To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish?  They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?
     My guess is root heat (horseradish, wassabi, etc) doesnt have the oils compared to peppers "capsaicin"?  So is that why the root heat hits you like a train, but doesnt linger, as their is no oil, so it does not stay on your tongue?
    Columbus, Ohio
  • CTMikeCTMike Posts: 2,759
    lousubcap said:
    I’d heard of the Kentucky Chew before - was on the commissioning crew for the USS  Kentucky - everyone on the crew over age 21 got a special commemorative bottle of Blanton’s. Some retired Admiral and Kentucky native came to the commissioning party and gave a little history on bourbon and how to properly imbibe. 

    They also served burgoo at the party - wasn’t a fan. 

    Hadn’t heard of the Kentucky hug before - learn something new every day.
    MMBGE / Large BGE / XL BGE (Craigslist Find) / SF30x80 cabinet trailer - "Ol' Mortimer" / Outdoor kitchen in progress.  

    RECOVERING BUBBLEHEAD
    Southeastern CT. 
  • BotchBotch Posts: 12,304
    CTMike said:
    I’d heard of the Kentucky Chew before - was on the commissioning crew for the USS  Kentucky - everyone on the crew over age 21 got a special commemorative bottle of Blanton’s. 
     :o   In the Air Force, we get a coffee mug.  
    ____________________________________________
    "One idiot is one idiot.  Two idiots are two idiots.  10,000 idiots are a political party."   - Franz Kafka
            
  • Mark_B_GoodMark_B_Good Posts: 929
    Botch said:
    Odd things pop into my head some days.  
    We all know that the primary flavors (sweet, salty, umami, sour, bitter) come from our tongue, while the more specialized flavors (cinnamon, pumpkin, oregano, leather, lavender, chinese gutter oil, parmesan, chocolate, et al) are actually aromas picked up by our noses.  
     
    Where does heat fall in here?
     
    I know heat can be detected on the tongue, but also on the lips, back of the mouth, definitely in the nose, the stomach and regions beyond, even other external places if you've peeled a bushel of Hatch and forget to wash your hands.  Is heat not even a flavor, but rather a stimulus?  If so, what's it called?  And can the tingle from szechuan peppercorns fall into this category too?  
     
    I don't have the book Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat; does that author address this at all?  
     
    Just an odd thing that popped into my head.  
    Heat is experienced on the tongue ... and on the area that the sun don't shine when it comes out.
    Napoleon Prestige Pro 665, XL BGE, Lots of time for BBQ!
  • Langner91Langner91 Posts: 784
    NDG said:
    This is a great thread.  To add to the mix - anyone have any idea what the difference in "heat" is between peppers (capsaicin), mustard and horseradish?  They all "burn" but are fruit, seeds and roots?
     My guess is root heat (horseradish, wassabi, etc) doesnt have the oils compared to peppers "capsaicin"?  So is that why the root heat hits you like a train, but doesnt linger, as their is no oil, so it does not stay on your tongue?
    I am intrigued by horseradish.  This website has some interesting facts.

    https://horseradish.org/

    It claims:

    The “hotness” from horseradish comes from isothiocyanate, a volatile compound that, when oxidized by air and saliva, generates the “heat” that some people claim clears out their sinuses.  The bite and aroma of the horseradish root are almost absent until it is grated or ground.

    Clinton, Iowa
  • NDGNDG Posts: 2,210
    Interesting - ever tried the Headless Horseradish hot sauce?  Pretty good, mine is lasting forever since I really only use it on beef or other rich dishes.
    Columbus, Ohio
  • Langner91Langner91 Posts: 784
    No.  I haven't.  I will have to keep an eye open for it.

    I spend a bit of time in Indianapolis for business.  The steak houses there (St. Elmo's and Harry & Izzy's) are known for their strong horseradish cocktail sauce.  It is absurd!  I love it!  The last waitress we had told our table that if you are overcome with the burn from horseradish, all you have to do is breath in the vapors from your alcoholic drink (wine or spirits).  I am pretty sure we all looked pretty silly eating shrimp and sniffing our wine!
    Clinton, Iowa
  • NDGNDG Posts: 2,210
    edited January 12
    Yes I love that St Elmo’s cocktail sauce !!  We have an Indy trade show every yr - fun to watch that sauce blindside an unsuspecting victim !!

    FYI here is the sauce I spoke of Headless Horseradish Hot Sauce https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZHL72G2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glt_fabc_D12D066WTHHQHJY4J4NP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
    Columbus, Ohio
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