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Fire down below

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Powak
Powak Posts: 1,391
in EggHead Forum
Lately after lighting my egg and letting it warm up I’ve noticed my fire has been working it’s way down and not getting the top layer of coal burning. Even after sitting at 450-500 for an hour the top layer is still black unlit coal.  It all started when I pulled the shower drain out and installed the kickash can below my Kickash basket. It makes it so cooking raised direct now is like cooking indirect. I’m getting no little to no radiation from below. 
 The only way to get that top red bed of coals is to close the bottom vent, open the dome and let it sit 8-10 minutes like that. I’ve cleaned out the egg beneath the firebox, lit it in a variety of ways with the same result. Last night I was
grilling some chicken and I removed all the old ash and coal and put in all new fresh coal, lit 5 spots with my JJ George torch and an hour later the coals were burning below that top layer at 500°. I was able to get the top layer red after closing the bottom vent for while but as soon as I opened the bottom vent back up and closed the dome the fire went back down below the top coals. I had my PSWOO2 in and finally just ripped that out and put my grate at fire ring level left the dome open and finished the cook no problem.

The next thing I’m gonna try is removing the can and going back to using the shower drain below the basket.  When cleaning it I did notice my firebox has a crack that runs horizontal along the area that has the round holes. That shouldn’t cause it to burn any different right? 
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    No the crack should not. I have had the ring, almost in shards, and had no problems with my XL. I have changed my gaskets and the bands, and it is working awesome.

    Ditch the can.
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • 4TheGrillOfIt
    4TheGrillOfIt Posts: 741
    edited July 2021
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    Stupid question: you do have the door cut out of the can lined up with the fire bowl and door of the Egg, right?  Your fire bowl and can have free airflow?   The Can should cause no airflow issue whatsoever.
    XL BGE, Large BGE, Small BGE, Weber Summit NG                                                                                               
    Memphis  
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    4TheGrillOfIt said:
    Stupid question: you do have the door cut out of the can lined up with the fire owl and door of the Egg, right?  Your fire bowl and can have free airflow?   The Can should cause no airflow issue whatsoever.
    Yup. Sure do. I checked that real close. Really the only thing I can surmise is the can makes the air flow so direct it causes the fire to hover in center, near the intake like that. I might be wrong about that but after burning thru all my old coal, cleaning out, loading with all new coal and still having the same result, that’s all I can come up with.
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  • jdMyers
    jdMyers Posts: 1,336
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    I learned after noticing that same effect.  I out my steel drain back in over the kick ash bowl.  Inuse both.  Works great.  Monitoring Temps, the exterior bottom of my egg doesn't get as super hot with the drain in vs just the K.A.B.  I was worried about.my granite under the egg sitting on mini nest legs or what ever they are called.  I figured the Japanese originals began using that steel drain for a reason.  I kept it.  Top coals burn even and thru.  Hope it helps jd.. also assuming you pull the basket and empty the ash around it.  
    Columbus, Ohio
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    jdMyers said:
    I learned after noticing that same effect.  I out my steel drain back in over the kick ash bowl.  Inuse both.  Works great.  Monitoring Temps, the exterior bottom of my egg doesn't get as super hot with the drain in vs just the K.A.B.  I was worried about.my granite under the egg sitting on mini nest legs or what ever they are called.  I figured the Japanese originals began using that steel drain for a reason.  I kept it.  Top coals burn even and thru.  Hope it helps jd.. also assuming you pull the basket and empty the ash around it.  
    Man that’s definitely it. Glad someone else noticed this too. I thought I was going crazy and maybe using my Weber kettle too much and going back to the egg wondering if maybe it always burned that way. I find the shower drain works as a heat ballast too to slowly heat and cool the base of the egg. And those holes must evenly direct the airflow so you don’t just have one large round hot spot.
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    Bar said:

    Here comes old Rosie she's looking mighty fine.
    Here comes hot Nancy she's steppin' right on time.
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  • Bar
    Bar Posts: 166
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    Powak said
    Here comes old Rosie she's looking mighty fine.
    Here comes hot Nancy she's steppin' right on time

    Love it!
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  • Bar
    Bar Posts: 166
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    I am actually having similar issues.  I have an XL that is around 10 years old.  I made three changes at the same time so I am not sure if one or all of them are the problem.  I pulled the heavy sewer grate and installed a Kick Ash Basket & Kick Ash Can.  I even bought a High Q style charcoal grate to put under the basket to minimize the coals falling into the can.  I also bought the rEGGulator top.  I always hated cleaning the ash out of the egg and the KAB & KAC make clean up a breeze, I love it, but it does not cook the same.  As far as the rEGGulater, there is a hot spot where the opening is when barely cracked open.
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
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    Why don't you try blocking that air opening in the pan with the fire-box (rotate it) so the air has to go over the fire-box/ring and keep the fire on top?
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
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    (note: I don't have any KAB or pan and have no direct experience with them).

    PS - F Rand Paul
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • Mattman3969
    Mattman3969 Posts: 10,457
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    nolaegghead said:
    Why don't you try blocking that air opening in the pan with the fire-box (rotate it) so the air has to go over the fire-box/ring and keep the fire on top?
    That’s what I was thinking if people are insistent on using the can. By rotating it it would act similar to closing the bottom vent except you’re still getting air to the fire bowl air holes so the fire may still go down. I have to leave my vent shut when starting the fire if I want a full bed of coals across the top layer.  Fire chases air. Lol. 

    -----------------------------------------

    analyze adapt overcome

    2008 -Large BGE. 2013- Small BGE and 2015 - Mini. Henderson, Ky.
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    Took out the dog dish and put the shower drain back in. BINGO. Much better bed of coals.

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  • Bar
    Bar Posts: 166
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    I may have to do the same thing.  That was an expensive mistake on my end between the XL KAC and the High Q fire grate.  
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    Bar said:
    I may have to do the same thing.  That was an expensive mistake on my end between the XL KAC and the High Q 


    I’m blown away much the can impacts the air flow. Even with no can and no shower drain it burned better.
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    The can cutout does seem a bit smaller and different angle than the fire box cutout. That must affect it.
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  • EzraBrooks
    EzraBrooks Posts: 380
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    I have the can and basket and removed the shower drain.  I do not have this issue.  Is there something else that could be causing it?
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  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,467
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    Interesting thread.  My next cook, I'll be replacing the shower drain, but still use the KAB (love the de-ashing feature) and the KAC (any airflow restriction from that is completely dwarfed by the bottom vent setting).  
    _____________

    Remember when teachers used to say 'You won't have a calculator everywhere you go'?  Well, we showed them.


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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    EzraBrooks said:
    I have the can and basket and removed the shower drain.  I do not have this issue.  Is there something else that could be causing it?
    Two other things I’d like to try is leaving the electric starter in for a good 15 minutes and also starting with a grass burner (not same session of course hahahaha). After tonight’s cook I’m under the impression it’s how the drain directs the airflow. It moves the fresh air thru all those little round holes and I’m wondering if that is what affects the fire more so than the ash can itself?
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  • DavidCrumpton
    DavidCrumpton Posts: 198
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    This is interesting Very interesting. I added the ash can and noticed my last cook was crazy. 
    I’ll do the pull the ash can trick this weekend and see if things go back to normal. 
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  • 4TheGrillOfIt
    4TheGrillOfIt Posts: 741
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    This is pretty wild.  I have had the can since day one and have never used the cast iron grate.  No issues like this.  I do start the fire from the top using a torch.  

    @Powak keeps us posted.  
    XL BGE, Large BGE, Small BGE, Weber Summit NG                                                                                               
    Memphis  
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  • Powak
    Powak Posts: 1,391
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    4TheGrillOfIt said:
    This is pretty wild.  I have had the can since day one and have never used the cast iron grate.  No issues like this.  I do start the fire from the top using a torch.  

    @Powak keeps us posted.  
    Yup will do. I’m back to the drain and basket in together. I might try throwing the can under the drain just to see if that affects anything. I’d still like to try no drain and using the electric starter for 15 minutes -and see if I can get a real good top fire. The other side of all of this is maybe I have been Weber kettle’n too much lately and have gotten used to red blazing bed of coals.
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  • dbCooper
    dbCooper Posts: 2,079
    edited August 2021
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    This research seems to indicate there will be less bottom radiated heat when using the Kick Ash Can...

    LBGE, LBGE-PTR, 22" Weber, Coleman 413G
    Great Plains, USA
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  • DavidCrumpton
    DavidCrumpton Posts: 198
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    dbCooper said:
    This research seems to indicate there will be less bottom radiated heat when using the Kick Ash Can...

    Great info, Thank you!
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  • 4TheGrillOfIt
    4TheGrillOfIt Posts: 741
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    @dbCooper excellent, thanks! 
    XL BGE, Large BGE, Small BGE, Weber Summit NG                                                                                               
    Memphis  
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  • danhoo
    danhoo Posts: 684
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    dbCooper said:
    This research seems to indicate there will be less bottom radiated heat when using the Kick Ash Can...

    Interesting. 
    current: | Large BGE |  Genesis 1000 | Genesis E330 | 22 inch Kettle | Weber Summit Kamado
    sold:| PitBoss pro 820 |  WSM 22 | 
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  • Bar
    Bar Posts: 166
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    Very interesting.  
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  • danhoo
    danhoo Posts: 684
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    Powak said:
    4TheGrillOfIt said:
    This is pretty wild.  I have had the can since day one and have never used the cast iron grate.  No issues like this.  I do start the fire from the top using a torch.  

    @Powak keeps us posted.  
    Yup will do. I’m back to the drain and basket in together. I might try throwing the can under the drain just to see if that affects anything. I’d still like to try no drain and using the electric starter for 15 minutes -and see if I can get a real good top fire. The other side of all of this is maybe I have been Weber kettle’n too much lately and have gotten used to red blazing bed of coals.
    I'd like to see the outcome of a slow burn with all three: basket, drain and can.

    current: | Large BGE |  Genesis 1000 | Genesis E330 | 22 inch Kettle | Weber Summit Kamado
    sold:| PitBoss pro 820 |  WSM 22 | 
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  • Bar
    Bar Posts: 166
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    The KAB & KAC without the shower drain does cause my XL to burn a little different.

    When cooking spatchcock chicken at 400 the fire is concentrated in one area toward the back.  Before I added these I would put the bird on and not open the lid until it was done.  Now I need to rotate the grill grate every 15 min to avoid overcooking/burning the one spot. 

    When I go to shake the ash out the next day for the next cook I notice that the coals in one area are burned/ash but the rest of the coals are practically unused.  I have been refilling the same spot in the basket for the past month.
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  • 4TheGrillOfIt
    4TheGrillOfIt Posts: 741
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    @bar How are you starting your fire and in what location?  I have noticed on my large that the fire moves toward the back, but I haven’t noticed the same on the XL.  
    XL BGE, Large BGE, Small BGE, Weber Summit NG                                                                                               
    Memphis  
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