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First pizza cook notes (need some help lol) and Nest-in-table issues
500g 00 flour
10g salt
1.5 tbsp olive oil
3g dry active yeast
375g warm water
Kneaded 10min by hand. Rose for 2 hrs, cut into 4 pieces and proofed overnight in the fridge. Pulled out about 3 hrs prior to cook and let rise in the oven with just the oven light on (78-80 deg, monitored temps). Notes: Super sticky to work with. Had to dust a good bit of flour in to keep it workable while kneeling. Rose both times very nicely. Seemed very wet compared to bread dough I’m used to. I got zero “leopard spotting” during the cook. Almost no char at all in fact. Much denser, heavier and crispier crust than I was hoping for. Open to suggestions.
Ceramic Fiber Blanket 8# Density, 2300F (1" x 24"x 36") for Thermal Insulation of Stoves, Fireplaces, Pizza Ovens, Kilns, Forges, Furnaces https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074S5YRX1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TMhYEbMM0WGAG
First, had anyone else had this issue with sustained high temp cooks? Did I just, like, hold my mouth wrong? Lol. Do you feel like that ceramic blanket is a viable solution or am I missing something vital. Is there a better solution?
Comments
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Your hydration looks a bit high to me (75%), I usually do 63-65%.
Not all 00 flour are suitable for pizza, what did you use?
For the dough, try:
500 g 00 flour (caputo red bag)
325 g cold tap water
15 g salt
0.43 g Instant Dry Yeast (IDY)
Knead for 5-10 minutes (I use a kitchen aid)
Bulk ferment at room temperature (20C) for 12 hours
Split in 4 210g dough balls
Let the dough balls rise at room temperature (20C) for 2 more hours if you are going to use them the same day or store them in deli containers in the fridge right away (skip 2 hours rise) and use within about a week. They are best on day #2 in the fridge.
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
I don't do pizza on the egg, but I'd cut your hydration back to 70% maybe even 65% and see what you get. Make sure you let that stone recover too. Enjoy the process. I've waisted may doughs experimenting~ John - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
XL BGE, LG BGE, KJ Jr, PK Original, Ardore Pizza Oven, King Disc
Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers! -
Paq...thanks for the advice. Flour is a brand called Polselli. Got it from the local Italian market.
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Colts...I’ll prob wind up with a Ardor or Ooni Pro before it’s all said and done but I want to have some fun with the Egg in the mean time.
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To help protect the table you might want to add a layer of fire bricks below the table nest.
Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
jtcBoynton said:To help protect the table you might want to add a layer of fire bricks below the table nest.
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To keep the bricks together I glued them to a floor tile.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
Tom_in_NC said:Paq...thanks for the advice. Flour is a brand called Polselli. Got it from the local Italian market.
500 g flour
325 g water (cold tap)
15 g salt
0.7 g Instant Dry Yeast (IDY) or 0.87 g Active Dry Yeast (ADY)
Mix and knead (if using ADY, dissolve in the water 10 minutes before mixing)
8 hours Bulk fermentation (make a big ball and let it rest at room temperature in an oiled/covered container)
Divide in 4 210g portions and shape each portion in a ball and put each of the ball in an oiled/covered deli container.
Let the balls rest at room temperature 2 more hours if you plan to use them immediately or store in the fridge immediately and use within a couple of days (not sure how long with this specific flour)
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
Paq, what is the W rating and how does it affect fermentation timing? Is there a go to source for all this info? There seems to be a lot more to this than I knew. Thanks!!
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Tom_in_NC said:Paq, what is the W rating and how does it affect fermentation timing? Is there a go to source for all this info? There seems to be a lot more to this than I knew. Thanks!!
I haven’t found a good single source of information but do a search or write to the manufacturer of whatever flour you can find. 00 is simply a mill grade (how fine it is milled) so it doesn’t mean much. I am currently playing with caputo red/purple mix and the sweet spot seems to be 70/30 with a 14 hours room temperature fermentation + 24 hours cold temperature (fridge). It gives me a nice leopard spotting, great taste and super fluffy. The Polselli is a good same day dough flour but it is a bit weak so not suitable for long fermentation.Flours that I’ve used:
Caputo Classic - W 220
Caputo Pizzeria (blue) - W 280
Caputo Chef (red) - W 320
Caputo Nuvola Super (purple) - W320-340
Dallagiovanna Napoletana - W 310
Polselli Classica Catering Pizzeria - W 270
San Felice (Green) - W250/260
San Felice (Blue) W300/310
San Felice (Gold) - W350/360
Fermentation time estimate given to me by the owner of the Italian grocery store where I source my flour:
Flour W = 160 typical fermentation in 2 hours
Flour W = 180 typical fermentation in 3 hours
Flour W = 210 typical fermentation in 4 hours
Flour W = 240 typical fermentation in 6 hours
Flour W = 260 typical fermentation in 9 hours
Flour W = 280 typical fermentation in 12 hours
Flour W = 300 typical fermentation in 15 hours
Flour W = 320 typical fermentation in 24 hours
Flour W = 380 typical fermentation in 48 hours
Flour W = 400 typical fermentation in 72 hours
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
@paqman Damn brother that was extensive. Thank you so much for all the info, huge help. Clipped that to my pizza notes immediately haha. Did some digging on that Wiki page as well. Seems the W rating tracks fairly closely with the protein content. Though American flour makers could make life a bit easier and post it on the content label lol.
I think I have a pretty solid handle on the flour situation now, at least enough to keep me busy for some time experimenting. I have both some of the Red and Purple Caputo flours in my Amazon cart as we speak. I'll try your blend and see where that gets me, reserve that Polselli for sometime when I'm in a slow hurry for some pizza.
I don't think you mentioned it but if you cook these on the Egg (as opposed to a pizza cooker, which as stated previously I will have in the near future lol), can you give a rundown of your method there? I have 2 stones from CGS, a Woo and AR, a Lodge 14" pizza skillet...and can get whatever else I might need if necessary. But I'd love to know your take on time, temp (dome and stone) and placement within the egg. I can get them up pretty high but I see plenty of folks cook them at grate level too. Any feedback is hugely appreciated. Thank you sir!! -
I'm pretty impressed that you managed to catch the table on fire using a nest and the air gap it provides. Would like to see pics.
Like others have said, your hydration level is pretty high. 75% works well for thick crust pan pizza or focaccia where you just dump it out into the pan, but would probably be too wet and sticky to handle for a NY or Neapolitan style.
Also, since you're baking in an Egg and not a high-heat wood fired oven I would consider just using regular ol' King Arthur Bread Flour instead of the 00 stuff.
Lastly I would consider getting an Ooni or RoccboxSouth of Nashville - BGE XL - Alfresco 42" ALXE - Alfresco Versa Burner - Sunbeam Microwave -
@SonVolt On the table, it didn't exactly catch fire lol, though I was freaking out for a min haha. It got hot enough I was catching some wispy smoke and smelling pine though, which was enough that I have some ceramic bricks in the back of my SUV as we speak. I'll see if there is any carnage to take pics of though once I get the Egg lifted out to put the bricks in.
Thanks for the advice on the flour, I'm open to try all suggestions. Even the failures taste pretty good haha.
Trust me, an Ooni Pro is in my future brother, bank on it haha. But... one massively expensive cooking vessel at a time will keep my relationship with my fiancee in a much better spot lol. I've only had the Egg a few weeks. I kinda like the challenge though, I'd really like to get the best possibly result I can off the Egg. I've seen some great looking pies some folks on here (and Youtube) have done with them. But yeah, I'm all about the right toy for the job, especially when that means I need another toy lol -
Tom_in_NC said:@SonVolt On the table, it didn't exactly catch fire lol, though I was freaking out for a min haha. It got hot enough I was catching some wispy smoke and smelling pine though, which was enough that I have some ceramic bricks in the back of my SUV as we speak. I'll see if there is any carnage to take pics of though once I get the Egg lifted out to put the bricks in.
Thanks for the advice on the flour, I'm open to try all suggestions. Even the failures taste pretty good haha.
Trust me, an Ooni Pro is in my future brother, bank on it haha. But... one massively expensive cooking vessel at a time will keep my relationship with my fiancee in a much better spot lol. I've only had the Egg a few weeks. I kinda like the challenge though, I'd really like to get the best possibly result I can off the Egg. I've seen some great looking pies some folks on here (and Youtube) have done with them. But yeah, I'm all about the right toy for the job, especially when that means I need another toy lol
Very cool. I would also try out the par-bake method (or whatever it's called) where you grill the dough like a flat bread on both sides before topping and finishing. I personally think it's the best way to cook pizza on the egg.
https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/comment/2515339#Comment_2515339
South of Nashville - BGE XL - Alfresco 42" ALXE - Alfresco Versa Burner - Sunbeam Microwave -
I'd be interested to hear the fine points on the direct grilled crust method if you want to drop them in here. Plenty of long posts already in this thread, if anyone has read this far they won't mind one more haha.
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One of the reasons I got my BGE years ago was to bake pizzas. I gave up on the egg (for pizzas) last year after ruining two sets of bands and more gaskets than I can remember. I purchased a Pizzacraft Pronto oven last season and then a Roccbox when the COVID thing started (impulse buy because of a price drop). The Roccbox is THE best purchase that I have made in a long time.
The Polselli flour is totally fine if the cost is right and you can find it locally; I would not break the bank to get fancy flours if there is a big price difference. You just need to adjust fermentation time and yeast quantity accordingly (did I mention you should get a drug dealer scale to weigh your yeast? 😂). The Nuvola Super is nice to play with but not essential, I got it because I wanted to try canotto style dough (airy tube like crust). The red bag is good for long fermentation and the flavor is great.
Protein content is almost always listed so, yes, that’s a good indicator of what you are getting if you can’t find W numbers.
When I baked on the egg, I was using a PSWoo with the platesetter and the pizza stone sitting on the extender so it was pretty high in the dome at the highest temperature I could reach, I think that was around 700 degrees maybe a bit higher.
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
@Tom_in_NC Check this thread for my setup when I was using the egg: https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1141565/finally-the-pizza-dough-recipe-i-was-looking-for/p1
I just read the whole thread again and temperature was 750F
I say the the blue bag of caputo has a higher protein content than the red bag but it is the other way around. The blue bag is used by pizzerias because they can make a same day dough with it (often mixing with old dough).____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
Paq, drug dealer scale is a check lol, don't know how anyone gets by in the kitchen without one.
The flour isn't a bank-breaker on our grocery budget. With two teenagers in the house it's not even a rounding error at this point lmao. Be a bargain compared to the barrage of Door Dash options I get hit up for on a daily basis (who pays $30 for 2 meals from Chick-Fil-A? lol)
Been meaning to ask you, think you had mentioned it in another thread on here as well that I caught, how did the high-temp cooks ruin your bands? Was it a bunch of sustained 750 deg+ cooks I assume? What exactly happened to them (so I can keep an eye out)? The gaskets make perfect sense, the bands seemed like they wouldn't get phased. Just curious. Thanks man. -
Tom_in_NC said:I'd be interested to hear the fine points on the direct grilled crust method if you want to drop them in here. Plenty of long posts already in this thread, if anyone has read this far they won't mind one more haha.
The article is behind a paywall unfortunately. Here's an exported PDF copy.South of Nashville - BGE XL - Alfresco 42" ALXE - Alfresco Versa Burner - Sunbeam Microwave -
I actually have a paid membership with them believe it or not (had it for years, one of my favorite go-to recipe sites) but the PDF is quick and handy. Thanks SV!!
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Tom_in_NC said:I actually have a paid membership with them believe it or not (had it for years, one of my favorite go-to recipe sites) but the PDF is quick and handy. Thanks SV!!
Awesome! Watch the video on their website if you can... it's a pretty cool process. And you get spotting and char and all the good stuff associated with a wood fired oven, albeit through a different method.South of Nashville - BGE XL - Alfresco 42" ALXE - Alfresco Versa Burner - Sunbeam Microwave -
Here's another method for grilling pizza. From a 1996 issue of Fine Cooking magazine. Haven't tried it in years, and never on the egg. No link, just photos.
I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!
MichaelCentral Connecticut -
Tom_in_NC said:Paq, drug dealer scale is a check lol, don't know how anyone gets by in the kitchen without one.
The flour isn't a bank-breaker on our grocery budget. With two teenagers in the house it's not even a rounding error at this point lmao. Be a bargain compared to the barrage of Door Dash options I get hit up for on a daily basis (who pays $30 for 2 meals from Chick-Fil-A? lol)
Been meaning to ask you, think you had mentioned it in another thread on here as well that I caught, how did the high-temp cooks ruin your bands? Was it a bunch of sustained 750 deg+ cooks I assume? What exactly happened to them (so I can keep an eye out)? The gaskets make perfect sense, the bands seemed like they wouldn't get phased. Just curious. Thanks man.
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
Tom....where bouts in NC are you located?Ellijay GA with a Medium & MiniMax
Well, I married me a wife, she's been trouble all my life,
Run me out in the cold rain and snow -
northGAcock said:Tom....where bouts in NC are you located?
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