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First pizza cook notes (need some help lol) and Nest-in-table issues

What’s up guys. Apologies in advance for the novel here. 

Alright first the pizzas. Did 4 pies, about 10” each. Two were passable to pretty good if not a mile from what I was hoping for. The other two were just ok. First one out I let go too long, it was way too crisp but didn’t burn. Last one I ran out of charcoal and it didn’t quite get as done on the top (note made, lesson learned). Overall I’ll take it for a first run and only my 3rd cook on this thing. 

So we’re on the right sheet of paper here, I have the full Woo with the adjustable rig and all, 18”” CGS stone set on the top rack. 18” split stones running blocking’s down below on the bottom ring. Ran it right at 600-625 dome and right at 500-530 stone temp. 

I want to run my dough recipe by you guys and get some input...

500g 00 flour 
10g salt 
1.5 tbsp olive oil 
3g dry active yeast 
375g warm water 

Kneaded 10min by hand. Rose for 2 hrs, cut into 4 pieces and proofed overnight in the fridge. Pulled out about 3 hrs prior to cook and let rise in the oven with just the oven light on (78-80 deg, monitored temps). Notes: Super sticky to work with. Had to dust a good bit of flour in to keep it workable while kneeling. Rose both times very nicely. Seemed very wet compared to bread dough I’m used to. I got zero “leopard spotting” during the cook. Almost no char at all in fact. Much denser, heavier and crispier crust than I was hoping for. Open to suggestions. 

Now the far more disconcerting part of this cook. Damn near set mah super sweet new table on fire lol. It’s in a Nest sitting down in the table, and about half way through the cook I smelled wood but I was like “thaaaat ain’t no damn lump”. And there was light, whispy smoke. At first I thought my seal was leaking. Nope. Underneath of the Egg was cooking the table. So I ran inside and grabbed 3 silicone hot pad/trivets and tossed under there. That stemmed the issue for the moment but I need a solution. My thought is something like this....

Ceramic Fiber Blanket 8# Density, 2300F (1" x 24"x 36") for Thermal Insulation of Stoves, Fireplaces, Pizza Ovens, Kilns, Forges, Furnaces https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074S5YRX1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TMhYEbMM0WGAG

First, had anyone else had this issue with sustained high temp cooks? Did I just, like, hold my mouth wrong? Lol. Do you feel like that ceramic blanket is a viable solution or am I missing something vital. Is there a better solution? 

Anyhow, sorry for the collegiate dissertation here but that was kinda harrowing lol.   

Comments

  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    Your hydration looks a bit high to me (75%), I usually do 63-65%.

    Not all 00 flour are suitable for pizza, what did you use?

    For the dough, try:
    500 g 00 flour (caputo red bag)
    325 g cold tap water
    15 g salt
    0.43 g Instant Dry Yeast (IDY)

    Knead for 5-10 minutes (I use a kitchen aid)

    Bulk ferment at room temperature (20C) for 12 hours

    Split in 4 210g dough balls

    Let the dough balls rise at room temperature (20C) for 2 more hours if you are going to use them the same day or store them in deli containers in the fridge right away (skip 2 hours rise) and use within about a week.  They are best on day #2 in the fridge.


    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • ColtsFanColtsFan Posts: 4,320
    I don't do pizza on the egg, but I'd cut your hydration back to 70% maybe even 65% and see what you get. Make sure you let that stone recover too. Enjoy the process. I've waisted may doughs experimenting 
    ~ John - https://www.instagram.com/hoosier_egger
    1-XL BGE, 2-LG BGE, KJ Jr, Ardore Pizza Oven, King Disc 
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    Paq...thanks for the advice. Flour is a brand called Polselli. Got it from the local Italian market. 
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    Colts...I’ll prob wind up with a Ardor or Ooni Pro before it’s all said and done but I want to have some fun with the Egg in the mean time. 
  • jtcBoyntonjtcBoynton Posts: 2,658
    To help protect the table you might want to add a layer of fire bricks below the table nest.

    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    To help protect the table you might want to add a layer of fire bricks below the table nest.

    Seems like a solid idea. I’ll hunt some down before my next sustained high heat cook. That was no bueno. Thanks JT. 
  • jtcBoyntonjtcBoynton Posts: 2,658
    To keep the bricks together I glued them to a floor tile. 
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    Tom_in_NC said:
    Paq...thanks for the advice. Flour is a brand called Polselli. Got it from the local Italian market. 
    If this is the flour in the pic below, it has a W rating of 270 so do a shorter fermentation.  Same recipe that I gave you but a bit more yeast (0.7g) and shorter bulk fermentation (8 hours).

    500 g flour
    325 g water (cold tap)
    15 g salt
    0.7 g Instant Dry Yeast (IDY) or 0.87 g Active Dry Yeast (ADY)

    Mix and knead (if using ADY, dissolve in the water 10 minutes before mixing)

    8 hours Bulk fermentation (make a big ball and let it rest at room temperature in an oiled/covered container)

    Divide in 4 210g portions and shape each portion in a ball and put each of the ball in an oiled/covered deli container.

    Let the balls rest at room temperature 2 more hours if you plan to use them immediately or store in the fridge immediately and use within a couple of days (not sure how long with this specific flour)




    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    Paq, what is the W rating and how does it affect fermentation timing? Is there a go to source for all this info? There seems to be a lot more to this than I knew. Thanks!! 
  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    Tom_in_NC said:
    Paq, what is the W rating and how does it affect fermentation timing? Is there a go to source for all this info? There seems to be a lot more to this than I knew. Thanks!! 
    @Tom_in_NC It is a rating of the strength of the flour, it impacts the fermentation time, almost all Italian flours have a spec sheet that includes it and it is sometimes listed on the back of the larger bags - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_flour

    I haven’t found a good single source of information but do a search or write to the manufacturer of whatever flour you can find.  00 is simply a mill grade (how fine it is milled) so it doesn’t mean much.  I am currently playing with caputo red/purple mix and the sweet spot seems to be 70/30 with a 14 hours room temperature fermentation + 24 hours cold temperature (fridge).  It gives me a nice leopard spotting, great taste and super fluffy.  The Polselli is a good same day dough flour but it is a bit weak so not suitable for long fermentation.


    Flours that I’ve used:

    Caputo Classic - W 220

    Caputo Pizzeria (blue) - W 280

    Caputo Chef (red) - W 320

    Caputo Nuvola Super (purple) - W320-340

    Dallagiovanna Napoletana - W 310

    Polselli Classica Catering Pizzeria - W 270

    San Felice (Green) - W250/260

    San Felice (Blue) W300/310

    San Felice (Gold) - W350/360


    Fermentation time estimate given to me by the owner of the Italian grocery store where I source my flour:

    Flour W = 160 typical fermentation in 2 hours

    Flour W = 180 typical fermentation in 3 hours

    Flour W = 210 typical fermentation in 4 hours

    Flour W = 240 typical fermentation in 6 hours

    Flour W = 260 typical fermentation in 9 hours

    Flour W = 280 typical fermentation in 12 hours

    Flour W = 300 typical fermentation in 15 hours

    Flour W = 320 typical fermentation in 24 hours

    Flour W = 380 typical fermentation in 48 hours

    Flour W = 400 typical fermentation in 72 hours


    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    @paqman Damn brother that was extensive. Thank you so much for all the info, huge help. Clipped that to my pizza notes immediately haha. Did some digging on that Wiki page as well. Seems the W rating tracks fairly closely with the protein content. Though American flour makers could make life a bit easier and post it on the content label lol. 

    I think I have a pretty solid handle on the flour situation now, at least enough to keep me busy for some time experimenting. I have both some of the Red and Purple Caputo flours in my Amazon cart as we speak. I'll try your blend and see where that gets me, reserve that Polselli for sometime when I'm in a slow hurry for some pizza. 

    I don't think you mentioned it but if you cook these on the Egg (as opposed to a pizza cooker, which as stated previously I will have in the near future lol), can you give a rundown of your method there? I have 2 stones from CGS, a Woo and AR, a Lodge 14" pizza skillet...and can get whatever else I might need if necessary. But I'd love to know your take on time, temp (dome and stone) and placement within the egg. I can get them up pretty high but I see plenty of folks cook them at grate level too. Any feedback is hugely appreciated. Thank you sir!! 
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 2,236
    edited May 26
    I'm pretty impressed that you managed to catch the table on fire using a nest and the air gap it provides. Would like to see pics. 

    Like others have said, your hydration level is pretty high. 75% works well for thick crust pan pizza or focaccia where you just dump it out into the pan, but would probably be too wet and sticky to handle for a NY or Neapolitan style. 

    Also, since you're baking in an Egg and not a high-heat wood fired oven I would consider just using regular ol' King Arthur Bread Flour instead of the 00 stuff. 

    Lastly I would consider getting an Ooni or Roccbox  =)
    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    @SonVolt On the table, it didn't exactly catch fire lol, though I was freaking out for a min haha. It got hot enough I was catching some wispy smoke and smelling pine though, which was enough that I have some ceramic bricks in the back of my SUV as we speak. I'll see if there is any carnage to take pics of though once I get the Egg lifted out to put the bricks in. 

    Thanks for the advice on the flour, I'm open to try all suggestions. Even the failures taste pretty good haha. 

    Trust me, an Ooni Pro is in my future brother, bank on it haha. But... one massively expensive cooking vessel at a time will keep my relationship with my fiancee in a much better spot lol. I've only had the Egg a few weeks. I kinda like the challenge though, I'd really like to get the best possibly result I can off the Egg. I've seen some great looking pies some folks on here (and Youtube) have done with them. But yeah, I'm all about the right toy for the job, especially when that means I need another toy lol 
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 2,236
    Tom_in_NC said:
    @SonVolt On the table, it didn't exactly catch fire lol, though I was freaking out for a min haha. It got hot enough I was catching some wispy smoke and smelling pine though, which was enough that I have some ceramic bricks in the back of my SUV as we speak. I'll see if there is any carnage to take pics of though once I get the Egg lifted out to put the bricks in. 

    Thanks for the advice on the flour, I'm open to try all suggestions. Even the failures taste pretty good haha. 

    Trust me, an Ooni Pro is in my future brother, bank on it haha. But... one massively expensive cooking vessel at a time will keep my relationship with my fiancee in a much better spot lol. I've only had the Egg a few weeks. I kinda like the challenge though, I'd really like to get the best possibly result I can off the Egg. I've seen some great looking pies some folks on here (and Youtube) have done with them. But yeah, I'm all about the right toy for the job, especially when that means I need another toy lol 

    Very cool. I would also try out the par-bake method (or whatever it's called) where you grill the dough like a flat bread on both sides before topping and finishing. I personally think it's the best way to cook pizza on the egg. 

    https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/comment/2515339#Comment_2515339
    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    I'd be interested to hear the fine points on the direct grilled crust method if you want to drop them in here. Plenty of long posts already in this thread, if anyone has read this far they won't mind one more haha. 
  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    One of the reasons I got my BGE years ago was to bake pizzas.  I gave up on the egg (for pizzas) last year after ruining two sets of bands and more gaskets than I can remember.  I purchased a Pizzacraft Pronto oven last season and then a Roccbox when the COVID thing started (impulse buy because of a price drop).  The Roccbox is THE best purchase that I have made in a long time.

    The Polselli flour is totally fine if the cost is right and you can find it locally; I would not break the bank to get fancy flours if there is a big price difference.  You  just need to adjust fermentation time and yeast quantity accordingly (did I mention you should get a drug dealer scale to weigh your yeast? 😂).  The Nuvola Super is nice to play with but not essential, I got it because I wanted to try canotto style dough (airy tube like crust).  The red bag is good for long fermentation and the flavor is great.

    Protein content is almost always listed so, yes, that’s a good indicator of what you are getting if you can’t find W numbers.

    When I baked on the egg, I was using a PSWoo with the platesetter and the pizza stone sitting on the extender so it was pretty high in the dome at the highest temperature I could reach, I think that was around 700 degrees maybe a bit higher.  

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    @Tom_in_NC Check this thread for my setup when I was using the egg:  https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1141565/finally-the-pizza-dough-recipe-i-was-looking-for/p1

    I just read the whole thread again and temperature was 750F

    I say the the blue bag of caputo has a higher protein content than the red bag but it is the other way around.  The blue bag is used by pizzerias because they can make a same day dough with it (often mixing with old dough).

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    Paq, drug dealer scale is a check lol, don't know how anyone gets by in the kitchen without one. 

    The flour isn't a bank-breaker on our grocery budget. With two teenagers in the house it's not even a rounding error at this point lmao. Be a bargain compared to the barrage of Door Dash options I get hit up for on a daily basis (who pays $30 for 2 meals from Chick-Fil-A? lol) 

    Been meaning to ask you, think you had mentioned it in another thread on here as well that I caught, how did the high-temp cooks ruin your bands? Was it a bunch of sustained 750 deg+ cooks I assume? What exactly happened to them (so I can keep an eye out)? The gaskets make perfect sense, the bands seemed like they wouldn't get phased. Just curious. Thanks man. 
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 2,236
    Tom_in_NC said:
    I'd be interested to hear the fine points on the direct grilled crust method if you want to drop them in here. Plenty of long posts already in this thread, if anyone has read this far they won't mind one more haha. 

    The article is behind a paywall unfortunately. Here's an exported PDF copy. 
    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    I actually have a paid membership with them believe it or not (had it for years, one of my favorite go-to recipe sites) but the PDF is quick and handy. Thanks SV!! 
  • SonVoltSonVolt Posts: 2,236
    Tom_in_NC said:
    I actually have a paid membership with them believe it or not (had it for years, one of my favorite go-to recipe sites) but the PDF is quick and handy. Thanks SV!! 

    Awesome! Watch the video on their website if you can... it's a pretty cool process. And you get spotting and char and all the good stuff associated with a wood fired oven, albeit through a different method.
    South of Nashville  -  BGE XL  -  Alfresco 42" ALXE  -  Alfresco Versa Burner  - Sunbeam Microwave 
  • Carolina QCarolina Q Posts: 14,494
    Here's another method for grilling pizza. From a 1996 issue of Fine Cooking magazine. Haven't tried it in years, and never on the egg. No link, just photos.

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

  • paqmanpaqman Posts: 3,112
    Tom_in_NC said:
    Paq, drug dealer scale is a check lol, don't know how anyone gets by in the kitchen without one. 

    The flour isn't a bank-breaker on our grocery budget. With two teenagers in the house it's not even a rounding error at this point lmao. Be a bargain compared to the barrage of Door Dash options I get hit up for on a daily basis (who pays $30 for 2 meals from Chick-Fil-A? lol) 

    Been meaning to ask you, think you had mentioned it in another thread on here as well that I caught, how did the high-temp cooks ruin your bands? Was it a bunch of sustained 750 deg+ cooks I assume? What exactly happened to them (so I can keep an eye out)? The gaskets make perfect sense, the bands seemed like they wouldn't get phased. Just curious. Thanks man. 
    I’m pretty sure it is the high temperature cooks that made the bands warp.  I could hear something happening to the metal while baking pies or when the egg was cooling down and it resulted in an over or underbite which caused gaskets to burn.  Nothing that I did resolved the issue (even unscrewed everything and re-installed as per original instructions, replaced the hardware, added washers, etc...).  I gave the old band sets to my dealer and challenged him to install them on one of his eggs... it didn’t work for him either.  It has been over a year now since I replaced the last set and stopped baking pies and they are still going strong so touching wood.

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
  • northGAcocknorthGAcock Posts: 14,013
    Tom....where bouts in NC are you located?
    Johns Creek GA with a Large & a 17" Blackstone........Medium & MiniMax in storage

    Well, I married me a wife, she's been trouble all my life,
    Run me out in the cold rain and snow
  • Tom_in_NCTom_in_NC Posts: 23
    Tom....where bouts in NC are you located?
    I'm in Apex. 
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