Sous Vide Skepticism...

cazzy · July 2015

Big_Green_Craig said:

cazzy said:

Thatgrimguy said:

Big_Green_Craig said:

Thatgrimguy said:

Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.

Good to know because I threw in some monster bone-in pork chops last night for tonight's dinner. I'm looking forward to it!

If you left it in overnight then it's going to be basically pulled pork by tonight. I do pork chops for about 3 hours in the SV.

Way longer than needed....

Tri tip is just a big steak, so I couldn't see going 18 hours either...but it looks good so who knows. More than one way to get er done.

The lamb chops above were done for 72 hours and the tri tip was done for 18 hours. Both were cooked following a classically trained chef's recipes. They were both cooked perfectly. The lamb was fork tender and the Select grade tri tip was filet quality. It seems to me like the longer the better.

72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.

gdenby · July 2015

saluki2007 said:

Great looking cooks Craig. I too have been skeptical of sous vide, but for a different reason. Something about cooking in a plastic bag rubs me the wrong way.

If you don't care to use plastic, you can poach in oil. The texture results are much the same. The searing can be problematic, as the remnant oil will flame. The juices extracted can't be used as easily. If you chill the remnant, the juices and gel will set up under the oil. Slower, but a good start for sauces and gravies.

Thatgrimguy · July 2015

Big_Green_Craig said:

cazzy said:

Thatgrimguy said:

Big_Green_Craig said:

Thatgrimguy said:

Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.

Good to know because I threw in some monster bone-in pork chops last night for tonight's dinner. I'm looking forward to it!

If you left it in overnight then it's going to be basically pulled pork by tonight. I do pork chops for about 3 hours in the SV.

Way longer than needed....

Tri tip is just a big steak, so I couldn't see going 18 hours either...but it looks good so who knows. More than one way to get er done.

The lamb chops above were done for 72 hours and the tri tip was done for 18 hours. Both were cooked following a classically trained chef's recipes. They were both cooked perfectly. The lamb was fork tender and the Select grade tri tip was filet quality. It seems to me like the longer the better.

One thing I can guarantee, longer is not always better. I have ruined more food by leaving in too long than visa-versa. Chicken for instance is terribly stringy if you leave it in too long even at 140. I have made pulled pork from a pork loin at 140 by leaving it in for 48 hours.

For me, when i have left any beef in for more than about 12 hours it has taken on a pot roast texture. Not a steak texture. Granted I HATED the 72 hour short ribs that everyone raves about. I'm no pro-chef but I have done probably 100+ sous vide items now.

nolaegghead · July 2015

I disagree with longer is better as a general paradigm. I have 4 sous vide cookers and I've been experimenting for a couple of years. Steaks and chops (that are normally cooked rare to medium and are tender enough without the long collagen and connective tissue breakdown) only need be in the bath long enough to reach the endpoint temperature - and that's a function of thickness.

Tough cuts, like ribs, brisket, butt, etc benefit from the long cooking times (longer with lower temp) because they're too tough to eat unless the connective tissue is broken down.

I've done steaks for 12 hours and they're weird tasting to me. Also they can get mushy, like a tenderized steak from a greasy spoon diner.

You'll find most of the sous vide community follows this general paradigm, however there are some outliers.

But whatever works for you, works for you.

GregW · July 2015

nolaegghead said:

I disagree with longer is better as a general paradigm. I have 4 sous vide cookers and I've been experimenting for a couple of years. Steaks and chops (that are normally cooked rare to medium and are tender enough without the long collagen and connective tissue breakdown) only need be in the bath long enough to reach the endpoint temperature - and that's a function of thickness.

Tough cuts, like ribs, brisket, butt, etc benefit from the long cooking times (longer with lower temp) because they're too tough to eat unless the connective tissue is broken down.

I've done steaks for 12 hours and they're weird tasting to me. Also they can get mushy, like a tenderized steak from a greasy spoon diner.

You'll find most of the sous vide community follows this general paradigm, however there are some outliers.

But whatever works for you, works for you.

Your experience is exactly like mine, It's easy to get carried away with SV and think longer is always better.

JohnInCarolina · July 2015

72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?

GregW · July 2015

JohnInCarolina said:

72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?

I've seen as many as 20 water baths running in the kitchen before.

Legume · July 2015

I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. When I did short ribs on the 4th, I just hot tubbed them for a little while to get some SV benefit, but not take it all the way. I really didn't want to miss out on smoking them, so I split the difference. I put them on the egg at the same time as a rack of St. Louis and they were done first, but with that fat content, I was able to just leave them on there and they continued to get better and better without drying out.

This to me is the benefit, I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end. They were like tiny little individual briskets on top of a bone, with all of the fantastic flavor of the smoke and fire.

smak · July 2015

I have been enjoying the sous vide for awhile. We have used it the past several days.

Chicken breasts, beef tongue (30 hours), chicken wings (finished with a quick fry), and hanger steak tonight.

Lots of fun.

Smak

nolaegghead · July 2015

On the up side, if you thought those were delicious, you can up your game by

Legume said:

I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. When I did short ribs on the 4th, I just hot tubbed them for a little while to get some SV benefit, but not take it all the way. I really didn't want to miss out on smoking them, so I split the difference. I put them on the egg at the same time as a rack of St. Louis and they were done first, but with that fat content, I was able to just leave them on there and they continued to get better and better without drying out.

This to me is the benefit, I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end. They were like tiny little individual briskets on top of a bone, with all of the fantastic flavor of the smoke and fire.

I have used the same technique.

Generally, if I'm just searing and I'm SV-ing some tough meat, I'll check it now and then by pulling it out of the water and squeezing the meat through the bag. You can tell how tender it is by how it reacts to the squeeze. If it bounces back into shape, it could stay in longer.

gdenby · July 2015

JohnInCarolina said:

72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?

From what I've read, many fine restaurants have for decades been pre-cooking various meals a'la SV, then freezing them. Don't know about the freezing details, but the articles said the packets could be tossed back into a SV bath just long enough to thaw before searing and saucing. No need for a chef.

I've tried doing this myself, and its not as good as going straight to sear. I think its 'cause I don't have a quick way to freeze the pre-cooked foods.

nolaegghead · July 2015

@gdenby - If the food is pasteurized in the sous vide, the shelf life in a refrigerator is greatly extended (weeks). So there should be no need to freeze, which degrades the flavor and texture of many foods.

gdenby · July 2015

Legume said:

I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. ...
I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end.

The 72 hour method seems to get around the problem of cooking tough chuck short ribs. Both those and the more tender plate ribs will still do fine after 72 hours, but the chuck ribs will be superb.

They don't fall apart. All of the tough stuff seems to disappear. The meat kind of jugglesunder finger touches. The tissue kind of "pops" in the mouth. The sear adds more flavor, but even w/o, the meat is amazingly succulent. Nothing like anything I've ever had from other methods.

bweekes · July 2015

Thatgrimguy said:

Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.

+1

biggreenrob · July 2015

+1 for sous vide pork and chicken breasts.

Here is a link to some great information about sous vide - http://forums.egullet.org/index.php/topic/136274-sous-vide-index/

I think salmon cooked sous vide to 122˚is also really good

GATABITES · July 2015

I missed the father's day deal on the Anova. Waiting for the price to come down again. I will definitely use it for reheating leftover bbq. I have way too many cooking accessories that don't get used anymore. Im more interesting in acquiring a stick burner that anything else at the moment.

Big_Green_Craig · July 2015

cazzy said:
72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.

I wasn't asking for any advice or for your input, but thanks.

cazzy · July 2015

Big_Green_Craig said:

cazzy said:
72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.

I wasn't asking for any advice or for your input, but thanks.

I wasn't trolling you or your thread so calm down. You have people who follow you, and it should be pointed out when you're giving incorrect information so others don't follow suit. The input you didn't care for wasn't for you, it was for the forum.

Big_Green_Craig · July 2015

cazzy said:

Big_Green_Craig said:

cazzy said:
72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.

I wasn't asking for any advice or for your input, but thanks.

I wasn't trolling you or your thread so calm down. You have people who follow you, and it should be pointed out when you're giving incorrect information so others don't follow suit. The input you didn't care for wasn't for you, it was for the forum.

So what you are saying is that Executive Chef Jason Schofield at the White Wolf Cafe doesn't know what he is doing. I'll stick with Jason's technique...

https://youtu.be/U5MjN-3K6es

Focker · July 2015

Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.

Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.

TexanOfTheNorth · July 2015

Focker said:

Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.

Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.

Who knows?

Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.

And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?

Big_Green_Craig · July 2015

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Focker said:

Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.

Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.

Who knows?

Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.

And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?

I was just following classicly trained chef's techniques, but what do they know...

TexanOfTheNorth · July 2015

Big_Green_Craig said:

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Focker said:

Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.

Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.

Who knows?

Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.

And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?

I was just following classicly trained chef's techniques, but what do they know...

I understand and, don't really care how long you choose to sous vide them.

But, aren't you curious to know if you'd get the same results with a much shorter sous vide? I've only got the one Anova unit and would hate to think I needed to tie it up for 3 days to get excellent results.

Why not try doing them for 4 hours and see how they turn out.

Big_Green_Craig · July 2015

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Big_Green_Craig said:

TexanOfTheNorth said:

Focker said:

Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.

Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.

Who knows?

Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.

And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?

I was just following classicly trained chef's techniques, but what do they know...

I understand and, don't really care how long you choose to sous vide them.

But, aren't you curious to know if you'd get the same results with a much shorter sous vide? I've only got the one Anova unit and would hate to think I needed to tie it up for 3 days to get excellent results.

Why not try doing them for 4 hours and see how they turn out.

I will at some point. I've only had it a couple weeks.

GATraveller · July 2015

Very informative site and article.

http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sous-vide-time-and-temperature-guide

DMW · July 2015

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/

cazzy · July 2015

DMW said:

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/

Oh please, what does he know....

DMW · July 2015

cazzy said:

DMW said:

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/

Oh please, what does he know....

Probably not much, he's not a classically trained chef...

Education

Ph.D., Applied Mathematics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, August 2005 to May 2013. Dissertation title: Dispersive shock wave interactions and two-dimensional ocean-wave soliton interactions.
M.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 2003 to May 2004. Thesis title: Symbolic algorithms and software for the Painlevé test and recursion operators for nonlinear partial differential equations.
B.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 1999 to May 2003. Graduated with high scholastic honors and a minor in Economics and Business. GPA: 3.855. GRE general test (2005) scores: math 780 (86% below), verbal 600 (84% below), and writing 5.5 (86% below).

Awards and Honors

Best Student Paper Award from the Eighth IMACS International Conference on Nonlinear Evolution Equations and Wave Phenomena: Computation and Theory, March 26, 2013.
Dean’s Graduate Student Research Grant ($7,150) from the University of Colorado at Boulder, 2013–2014.
National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship, sponsored and funded by the DoD and selected by the AFRL/AFOSR, 2006–2009.

Professional Activities and Service

Referee Work for Journals

Computer Physics Communications (EF 91%)
International Journal of Nonlinear Sciences and Numerical Simulations (EF 74%)
Food Control (EF 85%)
Journal of Computational and Applied Mathematics (EF 93%)
Journal of Fluid Mechanics (EF 97%)
Journal of Food Science (EF 90%)
LWT – Food Science and Technology (EF 85%)
Meat Science (EF 88%)
Physica A (EF 95%)
Physics Letters A (EF 98%)
Physical Review E (EF 100%)
Physical Review Letters (EF 100%)

Here, EF is the Eigenfactor.org percentile. I rarely review papers for journals with a EF below 70%.

Professional Organizations

Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
American Mathematical Society
The Authors Guild

Boards of Directors

Vice President, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2012 to present.
Director, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2007 to present.

GATraveller · July 2015

Math and Science are the Devil's work.

cazzy · July 2015

DMW said:

cazzy said:

DMW said:

http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/

Oh please, what does he know....

Probably not much, he's not a classically trained chef...

Education
Ph.D., Applied Mathematics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, August 2005 to May 2013. Dissertation title: Dispersive shock wave interactions and two-dimensional ocean-wave soliton interactions.
M.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 2003 to May 2004. Thesis title: Symbolic algorithms and software for the Painlevé test and recursion operators for nonlinear partial differential equations.
B.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 1999 to May 2003. Graduated with high scholastic honors and a minor in Economics and Business. GPA: 3.855. GRE general test (2005) scores: math 780 (86% below), verbal 600 (84% below), and writing 5.5 (86% below).
Awards and Honors
Best Student Paper Award from the Eighth IMACS International Conference on Nonlinear Evolution Equations and Wave Phenomena: Computation and Theory, March 26, 2013.
Dean’s Graduate Student Research Grant ($7,150) from the University of Colorado at Boulder, 2013–2014.
National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship, sponsored and funded by the DoD and selected by the AFRL/AFOSR, 2006–2009.
Professional Activities and Service
Referee Work for Journals
Computer Physics Communications (EF 91%)
International Journal of Nonlinear Sciences and Numerical Simulations (EF 74%)
Food Control (EF 85%)
Journal of Computational and Applied Mathematics (EF 93%)
Journal of Fluid Mechanics (EF 97%)
Journal of Food Science (EF 90%)
LWT – Food Science and Technology (EF 85%)
Meat Science (EF 88%)
Physica A (EF 95%)
Physics Letters A (EF 98%)
Physical Review E (EF 100%)
Physical Review Letters (EF 100%)
Here, EF is the Eigenfactor.org percentile. I rarely review papers for journals with a EF below 70%.
Professional Organizations
Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
American Mathematical Society
The Authors Guild
Boards of Directors
Vice President, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2012 to present.
Director, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2007 to present.

Doesn't he play for the Seahawks too?

Sous Vide Skepticism...

Comments

Education

Awards and Honors

Professional Activities and Service

Referee Work for Journals

Professional Organizations

Boards of Directors

Education

Awards and Honors

Professional Activities and Service

Referee Work for Journals

Professional Organizations

Boards of Directors

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