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Sous Vide Chicken - Safe at 140°?

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Carolina Q
Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
edited March 2014 in EggHead Forum
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Who knew? Was doing a bit of sous vide research and came across THIS article on Serious Eats. 

Among other things, the article says... "Chicken cooked to 140°F, like the one in the photo above, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 165°F, and incomparably moister and more tender. It glistens with moisture as you cut it. It practically oozes juices into your mouth as you chew." Remember, this is for sous vide chicken, not other cooking methods. 

I've been eating a ton of chicken lately. Sounds like sous vide followed by a quick sear (maybe a scorching hot CI pan sear) would result in some fine chicken parts. 'Course, a few days ago, I spatched a bird on the egg to 165+° using Mickey's (and Al's, Richard's, Monica's apparently) coffee rub. If sous vide and searing is better than that, it is probably illegal. 

Still, I want to tinker some with sous vide cooking. We'll see. Thought some of you might find this interesting. Love Kenji's stuff!

I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Michael 
Central Connecticut 

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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    yes, but the texture is better at 147. SV/seared chicken is the best chicken on earth. 
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    Wouldn't it come up to 147 after 140+sear anyway? I've never tried SV chicken, but I'm about to. Even if it's with a cooler and hot water for the time being. 

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • SmokeyPitt
    SmokeyPitt Posts: 10,490
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    Carolina Q said:
    Wouldn't it come up to 147 after 140+sear anyway? I've never tried SV chicken, but I'm about to. Even if it's with a cooler and hot water for the time being. 
    One thing you have to realize is there is no overshoot.  If it is in a 140 degree bath, as soon as you pull it out it starts cooling.  There is no thermal inertia.  Once you pull it from the bath it will cool quickly and you may not increase the IT during the sear. 

    Which came first the chicken or the egg?  I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. 

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  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
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    Agree with "Captain Brisket" Cen Tex, we like our Trés Booblay chicken done at 63ºC (about 145ºF). Usually dried and pan seared for colour. 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    Thanks, guys. I gotta try this!!

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • aem
    aem Posts: 146
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    Sous Vide Chicken Breast is amazing
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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches. :)


    Kenji? Or Little Chef?

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
    edited March 2014
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    Sorry- I'm removing the snark (the Chimay is working) :)).

    Anyhow, SV chicken is perfectly safe at 147 and I would feed it to my grandma and kids. 165 is just a number and SV can be safely cooked at lower temps (over longer times). Google sous vide safety chart and you will see what we are talking about.
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
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    Carolina Q said:
    Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches. :)


    Kenji? Or Little Chef?
    Sous vide chicken is even safe at 130ºF - if you keep it there long enough. Safe to eat but the texture is not very appealing unless you are my dog, who has tried it. 

    This chart is a reference I use. 

    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
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  • Egglegal_Alien
    Egglegal_Alien Posts: 113
    edited March 2014
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    It will be safe at 147... Just hold it there for as long as you can (at least 40-60 mins) until you're ready to sear and eat up, like Little Chef said, at 165 it'll be safe immediately (at the very moment IT gets there), it's not that 147 isn't safe, it's just that it isn't immediately (leave it at that temp for a while, it won't keep climbing and get overcooked SV)
    XL BGE + Large BGE @ Monterrey, Mexico
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Ok- lots of misinformation here. Let's discuss tomorrow. Centex is overserved :).
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • gdenby
    gdenby Posts: 6,239
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    Carolina Q said:
    Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches. :)


    Kenji? Or Little Chef?
    I too had a discussion w. Little Chef about lower temperature cooking. I was able to point to some specific pages in Modernist Cuisine showing the time and temperatures needed to pasteurize various foods using SV.

    But here recent comments over in the other forum seem to center around the likelyhood that people who have not carefully read over the info will not realize that time must be increased, sometimes drastically to remove pathogens from foods cooked at lower than usual temperatures.

    "Modernist Cuisine" grew out of a project to understand how to use SV safely. At the time, it was illegal to use the technique in NYC restaurants because it violated the regulation that foods had to be cooked to hotter than 140. From what I understand, SV is now allowed, but only after a rigorous certification program.

    Also, some of the food safety guidlines have been refined to take time at temperature into account. As the primary author of MC pointed out, pathogen growth increases exponentially w. temperature. The older general guideline of keeping uncooked foods between 40 and 140 for no more than 4 hours doesn't make much sense. If the food is safe at 41F for 4 hours and no more, at 121F, its not likely to be safe after about 5 minutes. I did come across a revision that set shorter safe-time limits for foods that were being held above 90F.

    FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
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    Sous vide will over cook and make it mushy slimy if you leave it too long. 140 is safe but its a texture thing for me its just not what chicken should be. My best comparison is medium rare salmon texture where it doesn't feel done in the middle. I have eaten it at 140 and am alive. I do 146 for 2 hours and like a minute or 2 sear on both sides. I ate sous vide chicken breasts for about 6 months straight for lunch at work after I got my sous vide and I tried various temps and times. As others have stated 145-148 range is optimal for my tastes.
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  • Egglegal_Alien
    Egglegal_Alien Posts: 113
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    Lit said:
    Sous vide will over cook and make it mushy slimy if you leave it too long. 140 is safe but its a texture thing for me its just not what chicken should be. My best comparison is medium rare salmon texture where it doesn't feel done in the middle. I have eaten it at 140 and am alive. I do 146 for 2 hours and like a minute or 2 sear on both sides. I ate sous vide chicken breasts for about 6 months straight for lunch at work after I got my sous vide and I tried various temps and times. As others have stated 145-148 range is optimal for my tastes.
    I would just specify what "leave it too long" means... I'd think you could get away with leaving food in twice as long as it takes to cook it without risking the mushy, slimy results you describe but would like to know what you think.
    XL BGE + Large BGE @ Monterrey, Mexico
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Chicken is recommended 1-4 hrs. It's perfectly safe past 4 hrs but can really get mushy if left in much longer.
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Egglegal_Alien
    Egglegal_Alien Posts: 113
    edited March 2014
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    @gdenbysaid:
    ...FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.
    @gdenby , It's more about how fast you got the leftovers out of the "danger zone" (under 39*) than how long you kept them on the fridge (still leftovers left unfrozen should be good for just a few days)... the rule of thumb to avoid risking foodborne illness is to reheat your leftovers to an IT of at least 165*... (again, SV at a lower temp could pasteurize them if held for a long period of time).
    XL BGE + Large BGE @ Monterrey, Mexico
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
    edited March 2014
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    And anything being cooked less than 130-ish should not be cooked longer than 4 hrs. It's not safe to hold anything lower than this as bad guys can form below these temps. Also, in thicker cuts it may take longer than 4 hours to get the core to a safe temp when cooking at lower temps. Just be careful to follow the guidelines on the charts/recipes and you will be fine. It's a great way to cook. Especially chicken
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
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    I've held chicken breasts (boneless/skinless) at 63ºC (about 145ºF) for well over 2 hours, never noticed much difference in texture vs holding for 1 hour. 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    Egglegal_Alien said:
    Carolina Q said:
    ...FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.
    Carolina, It's more about how fast you got the leftovers out of the "danger zone" (under 39*) than how long you kept them on the fridge (still leftovers left unfrozen should be good for just a few days)... the rule of thumb to avoid risking foodborne illness is to reheat your leftovers to an IT of at least 165*... (again, SV at a lower temp could pasteurize them if held for a long period of time).
    Don't be puttin' words in my mouth. I didn't say that. gdenby did.

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • Egglegal_Alien
    Egglegal_Alien Posts: 113
    edited March 2014
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    My bad, sorry @Carolina_Q missclicked when I trimmed @gdenby s post... there, I edited it.

    Cheers!
    XL BGE + Large BGE @ Monterrey, Mexico
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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    LOL, well, you almost edited it. :)

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • Egglegal_Alien
    Egglegal_Alien Posts: 113
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    Took a couple of tries but I think I got it right now, hehe.
    XL BGE + Large BGE @ Monterrey, Mexico
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