Sous Vide Chicken - Safe at 140°?

Carolina Q

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Who knew? Was doing a bit of sous vide research and came across THIS article on Serious Eats. 

Among other things, the article says... "Chicken cooked to 140°F, like the one in the photo above, is just as safe as chicken cooked to 165°F, and incomparably moister and more tender. It glistens with moisture as you cut it. It practically oozes juices into your mouth as you chew." Remember, this is for sous vide chicken, not other cooking methods. 

I've been eating a ton of chicken lately. Sounds like sous vide followed by a quick sear (maybe a scorching hot CI pan sear) would result in some fine chicken parts. 'Course, a few days ago, I spatched a bird on the egg to 165+° using Mickey's (and Al's, Richard's, Monica's apparently) coffee rub. If sous vide and searing is better than that, it is probably illegal. 

Still, I want to tinker some with sous vide cooking. We'll see. Thought some of you might find this interesting. Love Kenji's stuff!

The Cen-Tex Smoker

yes, but the texture is better at 147. SV/seared chicken is the best chicken on earth. 

Carolina Q

Wouldn't it come up to 147 after 140+sear anyway? I've never tried SV chicken, but I'm about to. Even if it's with a cooler and hot water for the time being. 

SmokeyPitt

Carolina Q said:

Wouldn't it come up to 147 after 140+sear anyway? I've never tried SV chicken, but I'm about to. Even if it's with a cooler and hot water for the time being. 

One thing you have to realize is there is no overshoot.  If it is in a 140 degree bath, as soon as you pull it out it starts cooling.  There is no thermal inertia.  Once you pull it from the bath it will cool quickly and you may not increase the IT during the sear. 

Skiddymarker

Agree with "Captain Brisket" Cen Tex, we like our Trés Booblay chicken done at 63ºC (about 145ºF). Usually dried and pan seared for colour. 

Carolina Q

Thanks, guys. I gotta try this!!

aem

Sous Vide Chicken Breast is amazing

Carolina Q

Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches.

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1358203&catid=1

Kenji? Or Little Chef?

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Sorry- I'm removing the snark (the Chimay is working) ).

Anyhow, SV chicken is perfectly safe at 147 and I would feed it to my grandma and kids. 165 is just a number and SV can be safely cooked at lower temps (over longer times). Google sous vide safety chart and you will see what we are talking about.

Skiddymarker

Carolina Q said:

Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches.

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1358203&catid=1

Kenji? Or Little Chef?

Sous vide chicken is even safe at 130ºF - if you keep it there long enough. Safe to eat but the texture is not very appealing unless you are my dog, who has tried it. 

This chart is a reference I use. 

Egglegal_Alien

It will be safe at 147... Just hold it there for as long as you can (at least 40-60 mins) until you're ready to sear and eat up, like Little Chef said, at 165 it'll be safe immediately (at the very moment IT gets there), it's not that 147 isn't safe, it's just that it isn't immediately (leave it at that temp for a while, it won't keep climbing and get overcooked SV)

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Ok- lots of misinformation here. Let's discuss tomorrow. Centex is overserved .

gdenby

Carolina Q said:

Just got a tongue lashing from Little Chef on the other forum. Food safety is what she does for a living so I tend to listen when she preaches.

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1358203&catid=1

Kenji? Or Little Chef?

I too had a discussion w. Little Chef about lower temperature cooking. I was able to point to some specific pages in Modernist Cuisine showing the time and temperatures needed to pasteurize various foods using SV.

But here recent comments over in the other forum seem to center around the likelyhood that people who have not carefully read over the info will not realize that time must be increased, sometimes drastically to remove pathogens from foods cooked at lower than usual temperatures.

"Modernist Cuisine" grew out of a project to understand how to use SV safely. At the time, it was illegal to use the technique in NYC restaurants because it violated the regulation that foods had to be cooked to hotter than 140. From what I understand, SV is now allowed, but only after a rigorous certification program.

Also, some of the food safety guidlines have been refined to take time at temperature into account. As the primary author of MC pointed out, pathogen growth increases exponentially w. temperature. The older general guideline of keeping uncooked foods between 40 and 140 for no more than 4 hours doesn't make much sense. If the food is safe at 41F for 4 hours and no more, at 121F, its not likely to be safe after about 5 minutes. I did come across a revision that set shorter safe-time limits for foods that were being held above 90F.

FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.

Lit

Sous vide will over cook and make it mushy slimy if you leave it too long. 140 is safe but its a texture thing for me its just not what chicken should be. My best comparison is medium rare salmon texture where it doesn't feel done in the middle. I have eaten it at 140 and am alive. I do 146 for 2 hours and like a minute or 2 sear on both sides. I ate sous vide chicken breasts for about 6 months straight for lunch at work after I got my sous vide and I tried various temps and times. As others have stated 145-148 range is optimal for my tastes.

Egglegal_Alien

Lit said:

Sous vide will over cook and make it mushy slimy if you leave it too long. 140 is safe but its a texture thing for me its just not what chicken should be. My best comparison is medium rare salmon texture where it doesn't feel done in the middle. I have eaten it at 140 and am alive. I do 146 for 2 hours and like a minute or 2 sear on both sides. I ate sous vide chicken breasts for about 6 months straight for lunch at work after I got my sous vide and I tried various temps and times. As others have stated 145-148 range is optimal for my tastes.

I would just specify what "leave it too long" means... I'd think you could get away with leaving food in twice as long as it takes to cook it without risking the mushy, slimy results you describe but would like to know what you think.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Chicken is recommended 1-4 hrs. It's perfectly safe past 4 hrs but can really get mushy if left in much longer.

Egglegal_Alien

@gdenbysaid:

...FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.

@gdenby , It's more about how fast you got the leftovers out of the "danger zone" (under 39*) than how long you kept them on the fridge (still leftovers left unfrozen should be good for just a few days)... the rule of thumb to avoid risking foodborne illness is to reheat your leftovers to an IT of at least 165*... (again, SV at a lower temp could pasteurize them if held for a long period of time).

The Cen-Tex Smoker

And anything being cooked less than 130-ish should not be cooked longer than 4 hrs. It's not safe to hold anything lower than this as bad guys can form below these temps. Also, in thicker cuts it may take longer than 4 hours to get the core to a safe temp when cooking at lower temps. Just be careful to follow the guidelines on the charts/recipes and you will be fine. It's a great way to cook. Especially chicken

Skiddymarker

I've held chicken breasts (boneless/skinless) at 63ºC (about 145ºF) for well over 2 hours, never noticed much difference in texture vs holding for 1 hour. 

Carolina Q

Egglegal_Alien said:

Carolina Q said:

...FWIW, I'm more concerned about safely using leftovers. Once cooked, foods go bad much faster is contaminated. I've gotten better about tossing stuff that has been sitting in the fridge for more than a few days.

Carolina, It's more about how fast you got the leftovers out of the "danger zone" (under 39*) than how long you kept them on the fridge (still leftovers left unfrozen should be good for just a few days)... the rule of thumb to avoid risking foodborne illness is to reheat your leftovers to an IT of at least 165*... (again, SV at a lower temp could pasteurize them if held for a long period of time).

Don't be puttin' words in my mouth. I didn't say that. gdenby did.

Egglegal_Alien

My bad, sorry @Carolina_Q missclicked when I trimmed @gdenby s post... there, I edited it.

Cheers!

Carolina Q

LOL, well, you almost edited it.

Egglegal_Alien

Took a couple of tries but I think I got it right now, hehe.