Let’s talk about it…

The Cen-Tex Smoker

I have a transgender (now 25 year old) kid. I love her the way I did the day she was born (as a biological male). I still don’t understand all of it but I’m trying every day. 

I will start with this: we are a fairly normal family (as a few people on here can confirm). We didn’t ask for this and she didn’t ask for this. We aren’t “groomers” or concerned with trans athletes competing against straight athletes. I’m actually conflicted about that but my kid is gay and likes musical theatre (and that has been an awesome addition to our lives). 

So- if you want to talk about how trans people and their (in this case) straight families really exist outside of the sensational stuff you see and hear when people are trying to whip up outrage, I’m here for it. 

Bring it 

Ozzie_Isaac

I am thankful your child had such a loving caring compassionate family.  Many are not that fortunate.

Being a kid and growing up is hard enough.  Add onto that another layer and I cannot personally imagine the difficulties.

I will love my kids no matter what.  I will also support them.  When they were growing up and was always cautious to say “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” until they confirmed.  Both my kids have always know we want them to be who they are and be happy.  We don’t care if they are gay, straight, bi, binary, non-binary.  I want them to be comfortable in their own skin and open about who they are.

I hope my issue with competition is seen as a very narrow issue.  To me it is the same as a wrestler in the 115lb weight class competing in the 145lb weight class.  Those are two different bodies that would be unfair to have compete.

Btw, I very much appreciate you being open about this.  It is something that is very difficult to have a true honest discussion over.

Ozzie_Isaac

Also, when people bring in “groomers” and all that code word **** it’s just fear mongering.  They are stupid and ignorant.

I’m going out in a limb, but I bet more kids have been damaged by priests than any other group in the history of the world.

People want to know what satan looks like?  A priest who molests kids and all the power structure that protects them.

Legume

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Also, when people bring in “groomers” and all that code word **** it’s just fear mongering.  They are stupid and ignorant.

I’m going out in a limb, but I bet more kids have been damaged by priests than any other group in the history of the world.

People want to know what satan looks like?  A priest who molests kids and all the power structure that protects them.

Raised Catholic, but exposed to a lot of different religions through my life. I can't debate if god is real or not, or rather I could probably argue both sides, but not convincingly.

From where I stand, most religions teach us to be good.  The stories vary, the gods vary, the rituals or habits vary, but on some level the messages are similar, they're sort of rules for living including consequences if you don't follow the rules. 

Except the Viking religions, I can't explain killing and pillaging is good, that's an outlier to me unless it started out differently.

Anyway, god or no god, we **** it up in the end when we organize it and put people in charge and add more rules and start doing human things and justify them in our god's name. And when we get all judgy and rationalize it with god.

To me, that's organized religion, we mess it all up with power and greed and humanness. That's priests diddling kids, that's people putting themselves and their brand of religion over others, that's the arrogance of missionary culture, that's war in the name of my god, not yours and it's absolutely "I know what's best for you."

Maybe that's what satan is, our humanness getting in the way of us just being good humans.

unoriginalusername

Hundreds of years back we did awful things to people we didn’t understand and labeled them witches as an excuse to justify our behaviour… 

i hope in the future society moves past the labels and fear mongering and peoples personal health and safety improves no matter who they are 

dbCooper

My step grandson (Mrs Coopers daughters child) was born female.  He is now 21 and identified as male about six years ago.  I can not offer any explanations or insights about "becoming" trans. 

I can say with certainty these folks are harassed and/or bullied and/or discriminated against by segments of our society.  This is a beautiful person who harms no one and just wants to live his life in peace.  That is not possible while living his life as who he is.

Those that are engaged in the discrimination, against any group, would do well to engage with the "others" on a personal level.  Wish I knew how to make that happen.

chzplz

I don’t know any trans people, but I think they’re brave as hell.  I can’t imagine how scary it is to reveal something so private and personal, publicly.  Anyone who says it is a choice is nuts.  Why would someone choose to go through all that unless it was deeply important to them??

The Cen-Tex Smoker

dbCooper said:

My step grandson (Mrs Coopers daughters child) was born female.  He is now 21 and identified as male about six years ago.  I can not offer any explanations or insights about "becoming" trans. 

I can say with certainty these folks are harassed and/or bullied and/or discriminated against by segments of our society.  This is a beautiful person who harms no one and just wants to live his life in peace.  That is not possible while living his life as who he is.

Those that are engaged in the discrimination, against any group, would do well to engage with the "others" on a personal level.  Wish I knew how to make that happen.

Thanks for sharing. It is not an easy road, as you well know. I can’t imagine people would choose this path as some type
Of statement or because they play too many video games or they hate their parents. The stuff I hear every week is pretty sickening, and dangerous to the safety of trans people. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Ozzie_Isaac said:

I am thankful your child had such a loving caring compassionate family.  Many are not that fortunate.

Being a kid and growing up is hard enough.  Add onto that another layer and I cannot personally imagine the difficulties.

I will love my kids no matter what.  I will also support them.  When they were growing up and was always cautious to say “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” until they confirmed.  Both my kids have always know we want them to be who they are and be happy.  We don’t care if they are gay, straight, bi, binary, non-binary.  I want them to be comfortable in their own skin and open about who they are.

I hope my issue with competition is seen as a very narrow issue.  To me it is the same as a wrestler in the 115lb weight class competing in the 145lb weight class.  Those are two different bodies that would be unfair to have compete.

Btw, I very much appreciate you being open about this.  It is something that is very difficult to have a true honest discussion over.

Like I said, I’m conflicted about the competition thing but it has become a rallying cry among the bigoted politicians trying to deny the existence of trans people (and gay people before them). There are such a tiny amount of trans people trying to compete in sports that is insignificant to anyone’s daily life. You would think it was some major issue that required laws being passed and need to be a daily topic on all the outrage merchant outlets  (Fox News, Joe Rogan, Matt Wash, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Elon etc). 

My kid is 5’7”. 120lbs and trips over her own shadow, so the first time I heard about any of this was when it became the #1 campaign issue of every texas politician a few years back. That has made our lives so much better /s

JohnInCarolina

Good friends of ours have a trans child that was born female.  We know them very well because they grew up with our daughter.  We’ve followed the whole journey and have done everything we can to support them.  

High school is difficult enough for kids these days, never mind trying to navigate it when you’re transitioning.  They’ve been bullied and harassed, and have had to switch schools a few times now.  

And they are as sweet and gentle a human being as you will ever meet.  Man it is heartbreaking how difficult their experience has been.  I don’t know why as a society we tend to demonize these kids and their parents, rather than recognize it as a struggle and a journey, and just kind of support them through it all. 

Despite the ugliness they’ve experienced, I have seen moments of genuine happiness as they have found themselves and built real, lasting friendships.  We are very proud of our daughter for being one of their circle of friends.  

Knowing one of these kids and the family, it all just hits a lot different.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

“Knowing one of these kids and the family, it all just hits a lot different”.

thats the whole reason I posted this. It’s easy to hate what you see on tv or listen to in a podcast that is meant to get you riled up so you watch or listen more. It’s a lot easier to ask questions and think a little bit  when it’s a real life person you know (or at least virtually know). 

This is not an easy path for anyone involved. I literally spend most of my days wondering if I’m going to get a phone call from the police or a hospital because my kid has been assaulted or worse. 

Seeing all the hate out there for people who just want to exist makes me really sad at what we have become. I have to tune it out or it becomes too much. 

JohnInCarolina

@The Cen-Tex Smoker good on you for starting this conversation here and keeping it real.

ColtsFan

I offer no opinion other than be kind and love everyone. We’re all humans and alive on this planet at the same time. 

fishlessman

One of my neighbors kids was not comfortable in ma, moved to NYC thinking he may fit in, well no, moved to Barcelona and has art clients in London and Paris. Doing real well now and happy. Europe is different. Good kid but ten showers a day😆 I don't get the hatred.   legume.....do I have to throw my viking ax at you

The Cen-Tex Smoker

chzplz said:

I don’t know any trans people, but I think they’re brave as hell.  I can’t imagine how scary it is to reveal something so private and personal, publicly.  Anyone who says it is a choice is nuts.  Why would someone choose to go through all that unless it was deeply important to them??

This is 100% true. I can’t imagine walking in to a middle school or high school knowing what you are going to get. Day after day after day. The narrative this is some sort of social contagion and these kids just need a good ass-whoopin’ and to join the football team is so wrong on so many levels.  

Legume

My dad worked in the defense electronics industry as an engineer his whole career. He retired in the 80's for time scale.

I remember him coming home and griping about his colleague that, mid-life, changed genders. Oh, he's a nice guy and all, but what about the bathrooms, how is that going to work? We work with the military, how is that going to work? Why do I have to change what I call him? Eventually, they had rules and signs for the bathrooms and it kept evolving. But up until he retired, I don't think he ever stopped bringing it up or making subtle or not so subtle jokes.

That was probably early 80's, so at least 40 years ago. We have come a long way, but in all honesty, progress and maturity and compassion in this area has moved much slower than almost anything in that time span. Compassion may have gone backwards.

So many people tell us what to be mad at and what to fear. It's a billion dollar industry now. We complain about things so small or inconsequential to us, previous generations would laugh at us. I don't find it difficult or even annoying to pay attention to pronouns, yet millions in this country lose their minds over it.

Ask your friends and family next time you hear this - is this just too hard? Is this making your life worse?

mehsrea

Since the dawn of man, minorities (off all classes) and other groups perceived as weak, have been persecuted by a majority of the remainder. Pick a class, they've been persecuted. Eventually, feelings evolve. But it takes literally hundreds or thousands of years. Multiple generations of communities. It was what a 160 years ago when we literally enslaved other people? That's not a long time ago. It is to us, but relatively it's a blip.

My point is that I pray for the weak and persecuted everywhere and for whatever reason. Stay positive, be yourself, love others (or do your best) and remember we all die and become nothing. So f*** them.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

mehsrea said:

Since the dawn of man, minorities (off all classes) and other groups perceived as weak, have been persecuted by a majority of the remainder. Pick a class, they've been persecuted. Eventually, feelings evolve. But it takes literally hundreds or thousands of years. Multiple generations of communities. It was what a 160 years ago when we literally enslaved other people? That's not a long time ago. It is to us, but relatively it's a blip.

My point is that I pray for the weak and persecuted everywhere and for whatever reason. Stay positive, be yourself, love others (or do your best) and remember we all die and become nothing. So f*** them.

Well said. Thanks for that. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Ozzie_Isaac said:

I am thankful your child had such a loving caring compassionate family.  Many are not that fortunate.

Being a kid and growing up is hard enough.  Add onto that another layer and I cannot personally imagine the difficulties.

I will love my kids no matter what.  I will also support them.  When they were growing up and was always cautious to say “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” until they confirmed.  Both my kids have always know we want them to be who they are and be happy.  We don’t care if they are gay, straight, bi, binary, non-binary.  I want them to be comfortable in their own skin and open about who they are.

I hope my issue with competition is seen as a very narrow issue.  To me it is the same as a wrestler in the 115lb weight class competing in the 145lb weight class.  Those are two different bodies that would be unfair to have compete.

Btw, I very much appreciate you being open about this.  It is something that is very difficult to have a true honest discussion over.

Of all the trans people we have met through our daughter, she is the only one with an in-tact supportive family. It crushes me to see these young people so damaged by the people who are supposed to protect them. 

I get that it’s shocking- it certainly was for us. But I can’t imagine losing my child over anything. I’ll never understand how a parent can have a child out there and turn their back on them when they need them the most. I’m so glad we were equipped to absorb the shock and pivot on a dime to a new reality. I understand how some people aren’t built that way or have religious conflict etc, but to abandon a child? I’ll never get that. 

StillH2OEgger

A person doesn't need to "understand" to have compassion for those who are dealing with this. I spend a fair amount of time around kids and although there will always be knuckleheads and bullying or worse, but I am also often encouraged by what I encounter as more acceptance and understanding with the younger generations than existed while I was growing up. It's my hope that all find whatever support helps them navigate through the challenges. Thanks for sharing your experience, @The Cen-Tex Smoker.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

StillH2OEgger said:

A person doesn't need to "understand" to have compassion for those who are dealing with this. I spend a fair amount of time around kids and although there will always be knuckleheads and bullying or worse, but I am also often encouraged by what I encounter as more acceptance and understanding with the younger generations than existed while I was growing up. It's my hope that all find whatever support helps them navigate through the challenges. Thanks for sharing your experience, @The Cen-Tex Smoker.

I see the same thing. It’s pretty amazing the group of friends my daughter has. Gay, straight, trans. They all just hang out as a group with no real distinction between them She pretty much lives as normal a life as you could considering the circumstances. There are so many things I don’t  understand or agree with but I’ve learned to hold my guidance for things that really matter. Thats been difficult haha. 

Elijah

The Cen-Tex Smoker said: I understand how some people aren’t built that way or have religious conflict etc, but to abandon a child? I’ll never get that. 

I can't speak for all religions, but as a Christian there is no conflict there. I don't understand it, but if anyone looks at my life there's going to be things that aren't understood. That's not my place to judge. A good person is good, that's the biggest choice. 

Elijah

John 8:7 KJV - So when they continued asking him, he - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:7&version=KJV touched my heart a little. I don't understand and I don't agree with the choice , but if you subscribe to the same religion there is nothing more that needs to be said. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Elijah said:

John 8:7 KJV - So when they continued asking him, he - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:7&version=KJV touched my heart a little. I don't understand and I don't agree with the choice , but if you subscribe to the same religion there is nothing more that needs to be said. 

Appreciate your kindness. I do appreciate the sentiment and agree the world would be a better place if more people subscribed to it. 

I do take exception, though, with the assumption that being gay or trans is a sin in the first place. I think that is where a lot of the animosity comes from; that this is somehow against god or some type of sin when it’s pretty clear that these people are born this way. 

Ozzie_Isaac

The “sins” people choose to obey and enforce are more emblematic of society and fear than in following God’s word.

We used to be a pretty devout Christian family.  I still consider myself a Christian, just without the church.  I have a lot of reasons why, which I won’t go into, but people ruin church.

@The Cen-Tex Smoker I can understand your fear about getting a call from the police.  I unfortunately had that call while I was out of state.  I couldn’t even think straight, my whole goal was to get back home as soon as humanely possible.

My son was attacked and his face was smashed in and he needed surgery to reconstruct his face. We had all the tests, and thankfully he had no brain damage.  We still suffer from it, my daughter saw it happen and couldn’t help.  It has deeply affected her just seeing it and she still struggles emotionally with it.  The fact people can do that to each other for any reason is beyond me.

Elijah

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Elijah said:

John 8:7 KJV - So when they continued asking him, he - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:7&version=KJV touched my heart a little. I don't understand and I don't agree with the choice , but if you subscribe to the same religion there is nothing more that needs to be said. 

Appreciate your kindness. I do appreciate the sentiment and agree the world would be a better place if more people subscribed to it. 

I do take exception, though, with the assumption that being gay or trans is a sin in the first place. I think that is where a lot of the animosity comes from; that this is somehow against god or some type of sin when it’s pretty clear that these people are born this way. 

My point is that it isn't a sin. It's something I don't understand. I wouldn't pretend to know anything else. I think that's supported in Christianity. You may not agree with my life choices. I may not agree with yours. The choice is between you and your God. I'm not good at explaining my thoughts through text. I am very supportive of not knowing what is right even if it's not what I do which is what the Bible verse references. 

OhioEgger

What an interesting topic to bring up.
I'm an old fart, so this is kind of new to me -- we didn't even know such things existed in my youth.

But at the bottom line, if someone is suffering, why would you tell them to stay in the closet and keep suffering when you can just as easily accept them for who they are?

I actually know one person who changed from male to female, and "she" is just as nice a person now as "he" was before. A bit of a shock, but certainly not a problem, and as far as I know nearly all of her friends have remained friends.

My only objection is to those who are militant and demand attention. But that objection goes to anyone on any topic.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Elijah said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Elijah said:

John 8:7 KJV - So when they continued asking him, he - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:7&version=KJV touched my heart a little. I don't understand and I don't agree with the choice , but if you subscribe to the same religion there is nothing more that needs to be said. 

Appreciate your kindness. I do appreciate the sentiment and agree the world would be a better place if more people subscribed to it. 

I do take exception, though, with the assumption that being gay or trans is a sin in the first place. I think that is where a lot of the animosity comes from; that this is somehow against god or some type of sin when it’s pretty clear that these people are born this way. 

My point is that it isn't a sin. It's something I don't understand. I wouldn't pretend to know anything else. I think that's supported in Christianity. You may not agree with my life choices. I may not agree with yours. The choice is between you and your God. I'm not good at explaining my thoughts through text. I am very supportive of not knowing what is right even if it's not what I do which is what the Bible verse references. 

I appreciate your insights and respect where you are coming from. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

OhioEgger said:

What an interesting topic to bring up.
I'm an old fart, so this is kind of new to me -- we didn't even know such things existed in my youth.

But at the bottom line, if someone is suffering, why would you tell them to stay in the closet and keep suffering when you can just as easily accept them for who they are?

I actually know one person who changed from male to female, and "she" is just as nice a person now as "he" was before. A bit of a shock, but certainly not a problem, and as far as I know nearly all of her friends have remained friends.

My only objection is to those who are militant and demand attention. But that objection goes to anyone on any topic.

It was certainly shocking to us haha. Was the last thing I thought we would deal with. Wasn’t on our radar at all. 

The Cen-Tex Smoker

Ozzie_Isaac said:

The “sins” people choose to obey and enforce are more emblematic of society and fear than in following God’s word.

We used to be a pretty devout Christian family.  I still consider myself a Christian, just without the church.  I have a lot of reasons why, which I won’t go into, but people ruin church.

@The Cen-Tex Smoker I can understand your fear about getting a call from the police.  I unfortunately had that call while I was out of state.  I couldn’t even think straight, my whole goal was to get back home as soon as humanely possible.

My son was attacked and his face was smashed in and he needed surgery to reconstruct his face. We had all the tests, and thankfully he had no brain damage.  We still suffer from it, my daughter saw it happen and couldn’t help.  It has deeply affected her just seeing it and she still struggles emotionally with it.  The fact people can do that to each other for any reason is beyond me.

Holy crap Ozzie. That is horrifying. Glad he’s ok. 

Elijah

Hopefully "sins" isn't in reference to my comments. A "sin" to a person is in reference to them. The broader thing is being a good person.