The Geriatric clown show and circus tonight June 27th 9 PM EDT-

lousubcap

Hosted by CNN and streamed by dang near every news network everywhere.
Debate primer article courtesy of BBC linked here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cekke335z9ko?at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=emails&at_objective=awareness&at_ptr_type=email&at_ptr_name=salesforce&at_campaign=newsbriefingpm&at_email_send_date=20240627&at_send_id=4113962&at_link_title=https%3a%2f%2fwww.bbc.com%2fnews%2farticles%2fcekke335z9ko&at_bbc_team=crm

The post debate spinmasters will be quite challenged I'm sure.

Plenty of popcorn.

lousubcap

And some additional reading in advance:

The latest NYT/Siena College poll conducted in the days leading up to tonight’s debate finds that “60 percent of registered voters thought Mr. Trump would perform ‘very’ or ‘somewhat’ well in the matchup. Only 46 percent said the same about Mr. Biden,” NYT’s Lisa Lerer writes.

“Overall, nearly half of voters anticipated a poor showing for Mr. Biden, signaling that the president enters the televised event facing widespread skepticism and scrutiny over his ability to demonstrate his fitness for office.”

Meanwhile, a new Gallup poll finds that Trump comes into tonight with a more positive view among voters than Biden. “The poll finds that about twice as many Republicans are pleased with Trump being the GOP nominee as Democrats are with Biden leading their party’s ticket.”

A big but, but, but: “Overall, less than half of Americans view either candidate favorably, think either has the personality and leadership qualities a president should have, and say they agree with either on the issues that are most important to them.”

The age-old question: “While Biden and Trump — the two oldest major party candidates to seek the U.S. presidency — are separated by just three years in age, Americans perceive Biden’s advanced age as a far greater liability.”

Gonna be great for democracy and one week before July 4th.  🇺🇸

lousubcap

From The Atlantic-I fully realize that acolytes aren't gonna read any of this but if it persuades some independents to vote against CHEETO- Mission accomplished-

Jeffrey Goldberg EDITOR IN CHIEF (The Atlantic)

Watching Donald Trump’s Las Vegas rally reinforced my view that, at our magazine, we can best serve our readers by treating him like any other candidate for high office who is emotionally and mentally unstable.

An Unstable Candidate

(Brandon Bell / Getty)

View in browser Earlier this year, Atlantic staff writer McKay Coppins suggested that voters, in the interest of civic hygiene and personal illumination, attend a Trump rally. This would be the way to understand the candidate, his thoughts, and his supporters, Coppins argued. He himself has attended more than 100 such gatherings since 2016, and he noted, correctly, that “nothing quite captures the Trump ethos like his campaign rallies.” I myself have attended only a few of these rallies (though among them was Trump’s January 6, 2020, rally on the Ellipse, which should count double). But what one derives from the experience is, in the words of our colleague Tom Nichols, the visceral sense that Trump is deeply unwell. Attendance at Trump rallies can be metaphysically taxing—and some seem to go longer than a Taylor Swift concert. So watching them from beginning to end online is occasionally a welcome substitute. A couple of weeks ago, on C-SPAN, I watched my first Trump rally in quite some time, a gathering under a heat dome in Las Vegas. I watched not because I expected to learn something new about the candidate, but because I had been alerted by concerned friends and colleagues that Trump had attacked me by name. This hadn’t happened in quite some time, and self-interest dictated watching. Trump is upset with me, and with The Atlantic, for a story I wrote in September of 2020, in which I reported, among other things, that he referred to American soldiers killed in action as “suckers” and “losers.” (For more on the particulars, please read this story by Adrienne LaFrance.) Trump is also upset by a profile I wrote late last year of retired General Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in which Milley, a decorated combat veteran, is portrayed as someone who defended the Constitution against Trump’s depredations. In response to this article, Trump suggested that Milley be executed. At his Las Vegas rally, Trump described me as a “horrible, radical-left lunatic named Goldberg” (he hit the word Goldberg with what I perhaps, or perhaps not, overinterpreted as special feeling). He articulated, at great length, why he would never disparage American service members. (Dear reader: He disparages the military constantly.) All of this was to be expected. What I found surprising, as I watched his entire presentation, was the ratio of gibberish to normal sentences. Which is to say, there was even more gibberish than I remembered in the typical Trump speech. The apotheosis of gibberish was his extended soliloquy on sharks and battery-powered boats. No summary could do it justice, so here is an extended cut: “By the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. Do you notice that? A lot of sharks. I watched some guys justifying it today. ‘Well, they weren’t really that angry. They bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were not hungry, but they misunderstood who she was.’ These people are crazy. He said, ‘There’s no problem with sharks. They just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming,’ now, who really got decimated and other people too, a lot of shark attacks. So I said, ‘So there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, and water goes over the battery—the boat is sinking; do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?’ Because I will tell you he didn’t know the answer. He said, ‘Nobody’s ever asked me that question.’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water.’ But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted, I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we going to end that. We’re going to end it for boats. We’re going to end it for trucks.” Please watch the whole thing, and as you do, imagine Trump’s words coming from the mouth of President Biden, and then imagine the Democratic Party allowing Biden to continue to run for president. Trump overwhelms us with nonsense. This is the “banality of crazy,” as the Atlantic contributor Brian Klaas calls it. By “us,” I mean, of course, the voting public, but I especially mean the editors and headline-writers of my industry, who sometimes succumb to one of the most pernicious biases in journalism, the bias toward coherence. We feel, understandably, that it is our job to make things make sense. But what if the actual story is that politics today makes no sense? It works like this: Trump sounds nuts, but he can’t be nuts, because he’s the presumptive nominee for president of a major party, and no major party would nominate someone who is nuts. Therefore, it is our responsibility to sand down his rhetoric, to identify any kernel of meaning, to make light of his bizarro statements, to rationalize. Which is why, after the electric-shark speech, much of the coverage revolved around the high temperatures in Las Vegas, and other extraneities. The Associated Press headline on a story about the event read this way: “Trump Complains About His Teleprompters at a Scorching Las Vegas Rally.” The New York Timesheadlined its story thus: “In Las Vegas, Trump Appeals to Local Workers and Avoids Talk of Conviction.” CNN’s headline: “Trump Proposes Eliminating Taxes on Tips at Las Vegas Campaign Rally.” In my house, the headline from the Las Vegas rally was the disconcerting and surprising news that I’m a “radical-left lunatic.” Outside my house, though, the public should have been informed, above everything else, that a former and possibly future president went on a ludicrous, illiterate rant about sharks and batteries, a rant that calls into question not only his fitness for office but his basic cognitive abilities. Watching the Las Vegas rally reinforced my view that, at our magazine, we can best serve our readers by highlighting aspects of Trump’s rhetoric and behavior that we would highlight about any other politician, including Joe Biden. I’ve never wanted this magazine to become part of the “resistance.” (You just have to read our coverage of Biden to understand that we are not.) I simply believe that we should tell the unadorned truth about Trump, and treat him like any other candidate for high office who is emotionally and mentally unstable. A bias toward coherence is understandable. But reality is what we must live with long after the debates and rallies are over."

Battleborn

Is it correct that CNN is having a 2 minute delay in the feed? Why?

Edit: quick google search says false. I guess everything on the internet isn’t true. 

Botch

I will be watching, but pretty much only to see how Traitor reacts when his mic is turned off mid-rant.  Guessing I'll have the whole thing turned off 20 minutes in, as in the last few pres/primary debates.  

Botch

Battleborn said:

Is it correct that CNN is having a 2 minute delay in the feed? Why?

My guess was to edit out all the worthless, inane pie-hole verbal vomit from Gayle King, who sadly was moved up to this evening's live show.  
But it sounds like it's false, so never mind.    

lousubcap

An independent assessment 20+ minutes in-
Biden's voice is a weakness and CHEETO is much more focused and on script than I anticipated.  
Spin rooms are gonna be working overdirve.  

Botch

I'm afraid you're dead-on, Cap'n...  

Gulfcoastguy

Biden’s son Beau died of cancer in the US.

lousubcap

Unless there is a tsunami rolling in, Biden is in a world of hurt among the undecided and perhaps some already committed.  Not a good showing so far.  CHEETO now has the inside track.  F' Me.
Maybe Biden will "declare victory" and move on and not cede the top spot to Harris.  

lousubcap

Gotta admit, I am hearing but ever increasingly tuning out.
Waiting for the spin rooms.  One is gonna have a hard time turning tonight's show into something better than a disaster.  But that's what they get paid for!!

Battleborn

lousubcap said:

Unless there is a tsunami rolling in, Biden is in a world of hurt among the undecided and perhaps some already committed.  Not a good showing so far.  CHEETO now has the inside track.  F' Me.
Maybe Biden will "declare victory" and move on and not cede the top spot to Harris.  

Harris might be even more unpopular than Biden. Newsome or M. Obama will be coming in hot soon. 

dbCooper

Been a political junkie since the mid- seventies, thanks to a 8th grade social studies teacher.  Tonight I see blatant lies winning over incoherent truths.  Fairly into a disillusioned mental state right now.

A recent piece by George Will regarding the presidential election may be accurate, to paraphrase. . . "the only good thing about it is one of them will lose".  Americans deserve better than what is being offered.

Buckwoody Egger

Definitely agree that Biden is showing his age and often it is uncomfortable.  But don’t discount that he understands the basics of question and answer and makes an attempt.  He has also fostered a lot of productivity in DC in spite of contentious partisan politics.  Trump is desperately consumed with emotional appeals and sensational statements regardless of what question was asked and his boasts are all lies. The only thing that Trump did well is appeal to people that respond emotionally in the moment and absolve themselves of fact checking.  Maybe it’s enough but Trump got his ass kicked in the last election.  

The real blame rests on America for whatever we have done to prevent having two 50-65 year old candidates ready to get work done. 

Gulfcoastguy

The former First Lady has repeatedly said that she will not run. Add to that not ever holding any significant elected office, of course that could have been said of Trump in 2015. Bypassing a triple minority in Harris would likely fracture the Democratic coalition. 

WeberWho

Recap of the night:

Trump wouldn't stop talking and the panel had to keep reminding Biden he still had 60-80 seconds left when answering questions. 

Buckwoody Egger

Shoot, at a minimum— can you imagine the energy of Al Gore vs Asa Hutchinson. We would be so lucky. And they are in their 70s!

JohnInCarolina

It’s easy to be disappointed by the fact that these are the choices, I get that.

The calls for Biden to step down seem like pipe dreams to me.  The obvious question of who replaces him is somehow an imaginary Democrat who easily defeats Trump.   Never mind a national party that can’t message for sh!t being in charge of the process.  Who do they pick?  I can guarantee it’s not your favorite replacement.  

 The time to replace Biden was sometime last year.  That ship has sailed.  And it is of course incredibly damning that there really haven’t been any calls for the convicted rapist / convicted felon to step down.  It’s where we are as a country I suppose.

As Frank often writes - F’ me.

Anyway, the above is why I’ve always said the only sane thing to do is to think about the policies that are likely to be enacted by either administration.  We have four years from each of them as a template.  In my opinion, this is what actually matters, but so many people (the media included) focus on the person and not the policies.  

Gulfcoastguy

Now the next question is does this presidential race have coat tails? The senate is evenly split with Harris as the deciding vote. Republicans have a narrow majority in the house. A president is limited if he doesn’t have the backing of a Congress and a Senate.

lousubcap

An article in The Atlantic today-

"Time to Go, Joe" by Mark Leibovich
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/time-to-go-joe/ar-BB1p2tRn?cvid=fc6fecde3e424682f4cb1368e62d491a&ei=9

JohnInCarolina

There are going to be plenty of pieces like that written, and I think the debate needs to be had.  I just don’t expect anything to actually change.  

lousubcap

A broader perspective_

Insights, analysis and must reads from CNN's Fareed Zakaria and the Global Public Square team, compiled by Global Briefing editor Chris Good  June 28, 2024

The World Thought  Biden Tanked, Too It wasn’t your TV set: President Joe Biden’s debate performance looked terrible around the world, according to the world’s press. “Biden misses his first campaign debate against Trump,” declares a headline in the conservative French daily Le Figaro. (“Voice raspy, blinking his eyes, Biden stayed on the defensive, seeming sometimes disoriented and sputtering,” writes correspondent Adrien Jaulmes.) “[C]onfused and with a hoarse voice” is how Italy’s Corriere della Sera describes Biden in the debate. The Spanish daily El País pronounces in its headline: “Biden fails in debate with Trump in his attempt to clear up concerns about his age.” The center-left British paper The Guardian notes “[c]alls for Biden to stand aside as surrogates reiterate support after debate.” Brazil’s Folha de S.Paulo calls it “an event that could be decisive” in the US election. Chinese state-propaganda paper the Global Times crows that “global viewers [were] more focused on candidates’ physical condition.” The debate was “marred by falsehoods and incoherent remarks,” writes the UAE newspaper The National. As Foreign Policy’s Rishi Iyengar and Christina Lu write, Biden and former President Donald Trump clashed last night in their visions for the wars in Ukraine and Gaza and America’s global image. And yet, to most, policy was not the main takeaway.  Nor were Trump’s falsehoods and misleading statements, though international headlines made some mention of them. Le Monde Washington correspondent Piotr Smolar writes that Trump “was able to tell, without contradiction, lies about America's economic situation at the end of his term, about the January 6 assault on the Capitol by his supporters and about the migration issue.” The paper’s English-language headline laments Biden’s “failure to call out” Trump’s “lies.” The French headline calls Biden’s performance a “shipwreck.” From the German weekly Der Spiegel, we learn that “German politicians suggest Biden withdraw.” And that may be the main result: If Biden had a cold, as unnamed sources claimed to reporters, the Western world order seems to have caught it. Although one German foreign-policy expert tells Der Spiegel that Biden can salvage his candidacy by giving a strong speech at the Democratic National Convention in August, German politician Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann of the centrist Free Democrats, who was elected to the EU Parliament, “fears a ‘historic tragedy’ in November,” Der Spiegel reports.   As for US reactions, The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser writes: “The question now is not so much about what kind of bounce Trump might get from Thursday’s debate but an even bigger one that we can’t quite answer yet: Was this the beginning of the end of the Biden Presidency?” Biden supporter and New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman put a point on the utterly dispirited reaction among Biden allies, writing: “[I]t made me weep. I cannot remember a more heartbreaking moment in American presidential campaign politics in my lifetime, precisely because of what it revealed: Joe Biden, a good man and a good president, has no business running for re-election. … If he insists on running and he loses to Trump, Biden and his family—and his staff and party members who enabled him—will not be able to show their faces. They deserve better. America needs better. The world needs better.”" Frictionless conduit here but clearly the overall perception.

lousubcap

JohnInCarolina said:

There are going to be plenty of pieces like that written, and I think the debate needs to be had.  I just don’t expect anything to actually change.  

I think there needs to be change otherwise the collective we are buying into a CHEETO do-over with a whole lot more vengeance front and center.  Biden could at least bow out gracefully and give fresh blood a shot at taking down CHEETO.  Otherwise STFB.  (Stand The F' By).  And it is Friday... 

Battleborn

After that debate, I’m thinking that they should just play a full round of golf. Winner takes all. Make it a televised event like “The Match” between Tiger and Phil. 

JohnInCarolina

lousubcap said:

JohnInCarolina said:

There are going to be plenty of pieces like that written, and I think the debate needs to be had.  I just don’t expect anything to actually change.  

I think there needs to be change otherwise the collective we are buying into a CHEETO do-over with a whole lot more vengeance front and center.  Biden could at least bow out gracefully and give fresh blood a shot at taking down CHEETO.  Otherwise STFB.  (Stand The F' By).  And it is Friday... 

Calls for change are easy. What’s far more difficult is to identify who replaces him on the ticket. 

No matter who you can think of for this role, it would basically have to be decided by the party.  It wouldn’t be someone decided by primary voters, for example. The optics of that are terrible.

And launching a nation-wide presidential campaign from scratch with four months to go ain’t beanbag.  Obama and Hillary are the only ones who really know how to do that.  One of them can’t run and I’m sure you’d be the last person to think the other was a good idea.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a Goldilocks candidate to swoop in and do this too.  I just can’t see the reality of it.  Will be happy to be proven wrong if it results in a successful candidate everyone rallies behind to defeat Trump.  

JohnInCarolina

Some food for thought regarding a replacement:

lousubcap

CHEETO is a lock with Biden at the top of the D ticket as things stand now.  CHEETO's polling numbers are baked in and aren't gonna move.  The 8-10% undecided in the above numbers are gonna decide the outcome and in around 5-7 states.  After Thursday's show I cannot see Biden's numbers improving.  Thus Biden bows out and the D convention becomes a throwback.  One can hope...It's all I've got left.  

Gulfcoastguy

Ah, but will Dr Jill let him bow out? I think that she likes fame and servants. Then if he bows out he can’t pardon Hunter or control that story.

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

Ah, but will Dr Jill let him bow out? I think that she likes fame and servants. 

Yeah I’m sure that’s why she kept working at a community college while Joe was the VP - for the fame and servants.  

There is also nothing to prevent him from pardoning Hunter after the election, whether he bows out or not.

lousubcap

Reaping the benefits?? of having my email address given (sold?) initially to the KY state R party (courtesy of being an election poll worker) and then crossing to the D party, both now (and have been for a few years) nationwide.  Never mind the texts and junk mail.  
Just today I have gotten several emails from CHEETO and his camp and Biden and his camp both obviously looking for $$.  The volume over the past few days has ramped up-due to the $$ closing date at the end of the month.  
Here are excerpts from one of each: first the R:

Frank,

 

I’m personally reaching out to you ahead of tonight’s FEC Mandated End-of-Quarter deadline.

 

The stakes have never been higher for our nation's future, and the path to securing a brighter future begins with taking back the Senate in November.

 

Imagine an America where all DEI programs are ended, and it’s the best person for the job.

 

Picture an economy powered by growth, jobs, and fiscal responsibility.

 

Envision a secure border where our security is protected and American communities are safeguarded.

 

This vision is within our reach, but we need your support today to make it a reality.

Now the D version (edited to get the "D" in the text and not the emoji  D colon as seen here

We’ve got some work to do. Donald Trump has gone off the rails -- even by his own standards. 

He’s promising to be a dictator on “day one.”
He’s calling January 6 insurrectionists “patriots.”
He’s using the language of Nazi Germany, posting an ad calling for a “unified Reich” in America if he’s elected.

Donald Trump is telling us who he is, and frankly, it’s on us to believe him.

We MUST stop him from taking back the White House -- and the only way to do that is by rallying Democrats across the country to support Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Right now, Joe and Kamala need you more than ever. Polling both nationally and in battleground states show a neck-and-neck race, and Trump and the MAGA Right are raising MILLIONS to tip the scales in their direction.

This is the most important election of our lifetimes. I desperately need you to make your first donation of $25 today.

What a time to be alive!!

Legume

Gulfcoastguy said:

Ah, but will Dr Jill let him bow out? I think that she likes fame and servants. Then if he bows out he can’t pardon Hunter or control that story.

I think this is a lot of Fox/Facebook nonsense.  I've seen it pop up lately on social media and I don't really see any realistic roots for it, I think it's just the latest fabrication to get people riled up. I even read that what she's doing is elder abuse, forcing him to run against his will, etc.

Take two big steps back and think about this and the pardoning Hunter narrative.  Where does that come from? Has there been anything said or done by Joe or anyone close to him that gives any credibility to either of these stories? I'm open to listening to whatever is out that has some facts or quotes behind it and then judging for myself.