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Gravlox, Novalox, Homemade Cream Cheese, and @Let'sEat's Bagels
Botch
Posts: 16,294
This was quite a project, but a lot of fun.
@LetsEat posted this recipe for bagels about three months ago:
https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1231682/bagels-egged-or-oven/p1 ...and I was anxious to try it, but just had a tooth implant done and needed to stay away from bagels. In the meantime, I'd also been watching the "It's Alive!" series on the Bon Appétit EweTube channel, and Brad made Gravlox on one episode. I'd also seen a couple videos on making your own cream cheese, so I eventually started setting things up. Took almost a week, a few mistakes were made, but today's bagel was delish and I'm going to be tweaking for awhile.
Gravlox: This is simply raw salmon, cured with salt, sugar, and spices for a few days. Went to the Asian market and they only had one fillet left in the freezer; they also had a whole salmon on ice, longer than my arm, and I decided I'd be starting small. Went to the grocery market and they did have the "sockeye" salmon, preferable for curing as it's low fat. On the left, sockeye from the grocer, 6 oz, $14.50; on the right, atlantic salmon from the Asian Market, 8 oz, $8.00. Yikes.
Brad poked holes thru the skin of the fillets to allow the rub to penetrate; I did that with my sausage pricker but it really tore up the meat, especially on the Atlantic salmon. Think I'll just peel the skin off next time. I rubbed both fillets, slapped them together skin-side-out, wrapped tight with saran wrap, into a tray, weighted on top and into the frig for 4 days.
Novalox: Apparently novalox is just similarly-cured salmon, with a couple-hour cold smoke. I was anxious to try out my new A-Maze-N smoker tube in the Large egg, it worked well. I decided to smoke the Atlantic fillet as it was fattier, the sockeye I used as gravlox (no smoke). You can see the tube in the bottom of the bowl (and yes I cleaned the grate under the fish):
Bagels: I followed @LetsEat's recipe, but I screwed up the timeline and my bagel dough was too wet. Was able to form the bagels without too much issue:
Yeah, they look more like croissants but I don't bake much, and a drier dough would've helped. While preparing for boiling, they got even stickier as they warmed up, and I finally cut the parchment into separate squares, lowered them into the boiling water, flipped after 30 seconds and was then able to peel the paper off; a bit of a mess. I've seen all different ingredients in the boiling water to provide a brown crust (malt powder, malt syrup, honey, baking soda, lye) so I experimented a bit: first three bagels had only salt in the water (the unseeded ones below), then non-diastolic (sp?) malt powder for the next six (per @LetsEat's recipe), then finally added a Tblspn of baking soda to the water for the last three. You can easily pick those out below, but the soda made the water foam up badly and almost overflowed (don't know if starting with the soda in cold water would help). Topping was "Everything Bagel" from King Arthur Flour.
Cream Cheese: I watched over a dozen videos on making your own cream cheese, and now have over a dozen completely different recipes for making cream cheese; many ways to skin a cat apparently. I picked a simpler one. Heat up 2 qrts whole milk (not ultra-pasteurized) and 1 cup heavy cream slowly until just barely simmering, then stir in fresh lemon juice, a tablespoon at a time, until the mix curdles (took about 1.5 lemons for me). Kill the heat, and continue to stir occasionally until cool. Set a sieve over a bowl (to catch the whey) with a double layer of "buttercloth" (WARNING: rabbit hole!):
https://eggheadforum.com/post/cheesemaking.com ... (apparently cheesecloth is too porous), and continue to stir occasionally to release the whey (I added a tsp of salt at this time too):
Then gather up the corners, wring as much whey out as possible, then tie and suspend (I put mine in a stockpot in the frig, but some folks leave it on the counter overnight).
Some videos end up with a "spreadable" cheeseball, I didn't, so other videos have you put chunks of the cheese into a food processor and add either some of the whey, or milk, and process until smooth (I used some reserved cream, and minced some chives to add also).
Assembly: I toasted a bagel, spread the cheese on top and bottom, sliced the gravlox as thin as possible, and garnished with capers, tomato and cracked pink peppercorns.
Not bad at all, but there were some
Mistakes:
- The biggest was screwing up the timing/hydration of the dough. The cooking process was much more of a mess than it should've been, and they were quite dense. But, I know how to fix these things. I have a round stone in my oven, so I put a piece of parchment over my pizza peel, and arranged 6 bagels "one in center, five around it" and it fit on the stone perfectly, so that part went well.
- Gravlox was too salty. I need to find thicker fillets (a problem with living in UT), use less rub, or cure for less time. I froze the Novalox fillet for later use, it was thicker so I'll see how the salt level is on it later.
- I'll skin the fillets fully next time, so I don't damage them trying to poke thru the skin.
- Some videos of the cream cheese were spreadable after hanging, mine wasn't. Next time I won't wring out the ball and see if that helps, would be nice to not mess up the food processor next time. I'll also try something else to culture the cream cheese (I used lemon juice this time). Mike from Pro Home Cooks used animal rennet and "mesophilic starter culture", claiming just an acid doesn't really "culture" the cheese, just separates it (I dunno, but will try anything).
Oh, and a quick question: can you freeze whole milk? I know you can freeze buttermilk, and I bought a gallon as it was less than a dollar more than two quarts, but only used half of it.
Thanks for looking!
@LetsEat posted this recipe for bagels about three months ago:
https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1231682/bagels-egged-or-oven/p1 ...and I was anxious to try it, but just had a tooth implant done and needed to stay away from bagels. In the meantime, I'd also been watching the "It's Alive!" series on the Bon Appétit EweTube channel, and Brad made Gravlox on one episode. I'd also seen a couple videos on making your own cream cheese, so I eventually started setting things up. Took almost a week, a few mistakes were made, but today's bagel was delish and I'm going to be tweaking for awhile.
Gravlox: This is simply raw salmon, cured with salt, sugar, and spices for a few days. Went to the Asian market and they only had one fillet left in the freezer; they also had a whole salmon on ice, longer than my arm, and I decided I'd be starting small. Went to the grocery market and they did have the "sockeye" salmon, preferable for curing as it's low fat. On the left, sockeye from the grocer, 6 oz, $14.50; on the right, atlantic salmon from the Asian Market, 8 oz, $8.00. Yikes.
Brad poked holes thru the skin of the fillets to allow the rub to penetrate; I did that with my sausage pricker but it really tore up the meat, especially on the Atlantic salmon. Think I'll just peel the skin off next time. I rubbed both fillets, slapped them together skin-side-out, wrapped tight with saran wrap, into a tray, weighted on top and into the frig for 4 days.
Novalox: Apparently novalox is just similarly-cured salmon, with a couple-hour cold smoke. I was anxious to try out my new A-Maze-N smoker tube in the Large egg, it worked well. I decided to smoke the Atlantic fillet as it was fattier, the sockeye I used as gravlox (no smoke). You can see the tube in the bottom of the bowl (and yes I cleaned the grate under the fish):
Bagels: I followed @LetsEat's recipe, but I screwed up the timeline and my bagel dough was too wet. Was able to form the bagels without too much issue:
Yeah, they look more like croissants but I don't bake much, and a drier dough would've helped. While preparing for boiling, they got even stickier as they warmed up, and I finally cut the parchment into separate squares, lowered them into the boiling water, flipped after 30 seconds and was then able to peel the paper off; a bit of a mess. I've seen all different ingredients in the boiling water to provide a brown crust (malt powder, malt syrup, honey, baking soda, lye) so I experimented a bit: first three bagels had only salt in the water (the unseeded ones below), then non-diastolic (sp?) malt powder for the next six (per @LetsEat's recipe), then finally added a Tblspn of baking soda to the water for the last three. You can easily pick those out below, but the soda made the water foam up badly and almost overflowed (don't know if starting with the soda in cold water would help). Topping was "Everything Bagel" from King Arthur Flour.
Cream Cheese: I watched over a dozen videos on making your own cream cheese, and now have over a dozen completely different recipes for making cream cheese; many ways to skin a cat apparently. I picked a simpler one. Heat up 2 qrts whole milk (not ultra-pasteurized) and 1 cup heavy cream slowly until just barely simmering, then stir in fresh lemon juice, a tablespoon at a time, until the mix curdles (took about 1.5 lemons for me). Kill the heat, and continue to stir occasionally until cool. Set a sieve over a bowl (to catch the whey) with a double layer of "buttercloth" (WARNING: rabbit hole!):
https://eggheadforum.com/post/cheesemaking.com ... (apparently cheesecloth is too porous), and continue to stir occasionally to release the whey (I added a tsp of salt at this time too):
Then gather up the corners, wring as much whey out as possible, then tie and suspend (I put mine in a stockpot in the frig, but some folks leave it on the counter overnight).
Some videos end up with a "spreadable" cheeseball, I didn't, so other videos have you put chunks of the cheese into a food processor and add either some of the whey, or milk, and process until smooth (I used some reserved cream, and minced some chives to add also).
Assembly: I toasted a bagel, spread the cheese on top and bottom, sliced the gravlox as thin as possible, and garnished with capers, tomato and cracked pink peppercorns.
Not bad at all, but there were some
Mistakes:
- The biggest was screwing up the timing/hydration of the dough. The cooking process was much more of a mess than it should've been, and they were quite dense. But, I know how to fix these things. I have a round stone in my oven, so I put a piece of parchment over my pizza peel, and arranged 6 bagels "one in center, five around it" and it fit on the stone perfectly, so that part went well.
- Gravlox was too salty. I need to find thicker fillets (a problem with living in UT), use less rub, or cure for less time. I froze the Novalox fillet for later use, it was thicker so I'll see how the salt level is on it later.
- I'll skin the fillets fully next time, so I don't damage them trying to poke thru the skin.
- Some videos of the cream cheese were spreadable after hanging, mine wasn't. Next time I won't wring out the ball and see if that helps, would be nice to not mess up the food processor next time. I'll also try something else to culture the cream cheese (I used lemon juice this time). Mike from Pro Home Cooks used animal rennet and "mesophilic starter culture", claiming just an acid doesn't really "culture" the cheese, just separates it (I dunno, but will try anything).
Oh, and a quick question: can you freeze whole milk? I know you can freeze buttermilk, and I bought a gallon as it was less than a dollar more than two quarts, but only used half of it.
Thanks for looking!
___________
"When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set."
- Lin Yutang
Comments
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WOW! That's dedication, sounds like more work and challenging than my turducken
FWIW I prick duck skin with Thermapen tip when making Peking duck.canuckland -
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Holy. Mother. Of. God.This is EXACTLY the subject of at least one of my wet dreams. Bravo!! 👏🏾 👏🏾 👏🏾
I make lox somewhat regularly, but cure it for about 2 days. It’s not as tender as the better pic I’ve had, but it’s pretty good for something that can be whipped up at home.#1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February 2013 • #3 Mini May 2013A happy BGE family in Houston, TX. -
I wish my mistakes looked that good! Sounds fantastic!"The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan
Minnesota -
Very nice @Botch Thanks for sharing.
LBGE, LBGE-PTR, 22" Weber, Coleman 413GGreat Plains, USA -
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great postaka marysvilleksegghead
Lrg 2008
mini 2009
XL 2021 (sold 8/24/23)
Henny Youngman:
I said to my wife, 'Where do you want to go for our anniversary?' She said, 'I want to go somewhere I've never been before.' I said, 'Try the kitchen.'
Bob Hope: When I wake up in the morning, I don’t feel anything until noon, and then it’s time for my nap -
You’ve been busy, @Botch !"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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Looks good @Botch, I never thought about making cream cheese thanks for the lesson.
South of Columbus, Ohio. -
Yup, they and the cottage cheese are store-bought.Langner91 said:Are those jarred capers?
Quick tip on jarred capers: remove them from the jar with a straight (not Y-shaped) vegetable peeler; they drain immediately and you can grab exactly what you want.
And thanks, guys.___________"When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set."
- Lin Yutang
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Putting on a clinic there! Nice work!Large, Medium, MiniMax, 36" Blackstone
Grand Rapids MI -
Nice experiment! Looks very good for a first effort.
And YES! You can freeze milk. Stew Leonard who has the original location of the "worlds largest dairy store" in my town and taught us that. Put in container with only enough headroom for expansion. Not too much air-space.
LBGE/Weber Kettle/Blackstone 36" Griddle/Turkey Fryer/Induction Burner/Royal Gourmet 24" Griddle/Cuisinart Twin Oaks/Pit Boss Tabletop pellet smoker/Instant Pot
BBQ from the State of Connecticut!
Jim -
The soap recipe that I've used for years recommends freezing and then pasteurizing the milk. No idea how old it is, but it apparently makes a difference to the milk.
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...and I finally cut the parchment into separate squares...
+1, we place shaped bagels on precut squares, after proofing it's easy to lift and dunk face down into the boiling water, peels off nicely before the flip over.canuckland -
I cure salmon fairly often, and I neither peel the skin nor poke holes in it and it works very well. Also, pro tip - fry up the cured skin after you cut it off for some yummy crispy bits for a salad or your bagel or whatever.I also rinse the salmon after I take it out to get more of the salt off - maybe that will help.NOLA
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Bravo good sir. I am almost as impressed with your details/write up as I am the actual cook.
___________________________________
LBGE,SBGE, and a Mini makes three......Sweet home Alabama........ Stay thirsty my friends .
-
Update.
I thawed out my remaining gallon of whole milk two days ago, and instead of curdling it with lemon juice I used a purchased culture (I'm sure I'd posted it, must've been on another thread). Left it out of the frig overnight to curdle (I didn't die), strained it, and stirred in salt and chives; by not wringing out the ball it stayed a bit more moist, so was able to stir it by hand and not dirty my food processor. It tasted okay with my breakfast this morning, but sampling it on a plain bagel this evening, it doesn't taste near as good as the first batch. I violated a "Design of Experiments" maxim, "Only change one variable at a time"; I changed three: 1) didn't add cream, 2) used frozen milk, and 3) used a commercial culture instead of fresh lemon juice.
Next time, I will make a few changes: 1) only buy/use 1 qrt of whole milk and 1 cup, or pint, of heavy cream; I only have a single 18-cu-ft frig, and the freezer is normally half-full of Hatch chile; I don't have room for a damn half-full gallon jug of milk; also, just a half-gallon gives me more cheese than I can use up before it smells funky-and-not-in-a-good-whey; 2) use 1 qrt of milk/pint of cream with lemon juice, then try again with the culture, it'll be a more even comparison; 3) think I have my heating/curdling/straining process down okay, won't be changing that for awhile.
Pulled the Novalox out of the freezer yesterday (smoked Atlantic salmon), this morning it sliced as easy as the Gravlox (not smoked, same cure, 4x-more-expensive Sockeye salmon). The smoked salmon was incredible, although just as overly-salty. Next time I'll cure both the same way, but along with rinsing the rub off, I'll also soak both in fresh water 20 minutes or so to get more of the salt off; that was my biggest disappointment. I'll smoke them both this time, and compare them directly.
Got lazy and didn't make my own bagels yesterday, bought a roll of six at the market. Will have enough cheese/lox for twelve, so tomorrow I'll mix up another batch of bagel dough, using the saved/refrigerated whey for the liquid. Wanted to try boiling them in water with malt syrup, but didn't get it ordered in time; I will try adding sodium carbonate (washing soda) which is baked sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), this stuff (also used in ramen noodles) can be caustic to the skin but a lot less dangerous than lye. Ragusea tried this and got some stunning results.___________"When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set."
- Lin Yutang
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TALK about being I M P R E S S E D !!!
You REALLY stepped up to the front of the line!!! -
Wow! Impressive and painstaking work, right there.Stillwater, MN
-
Nice update, @Botch !
I make gravlax every now and then. Novalox has been on my radar for a while, so hope to get to it soon.#1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February 2013 • #3 Mini May 2013A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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