Plumbing question

Botch

alaskanassasin said:

Botch said:

A more general question: does a water heater get noisier as it dies?  Mine starts banging, gurgling, rattling and farting, so loudly anymore that it wakes me during the night.  
I've lived here 28 years, and know I've replaced it once, but I don't remember exactly when.  

I had one that would do that when the water softener was getting low on salt, in other words it was caused by hard water.

Well, I don't have a softener, but could it be a years-long buildup....?

RRP

Botch said:

A more general question: does a water heater get noisier as it dies?  Mine starts banging, gurgling, rattling and farting, so loudly anymore that it wakes me during the night.  
I've lived here 28 years, and know I've replaced it once, but I don't remember exactly when.  

hmmm…you keep confusing that hot water heater with you second wife! 

Legume

Roadpuke0 said:

The pressure on the expansion tank to me is off or the tank is to small. Thermal expansion is what is causing the t&p to drip. A plumber can install a pressure reducing valve to-reduce you incoming pressure if need be. You may be setting the expansion tank pressure from a reading you take but line pressure changes all the time if it is a public line. Anything over 8 years on a heater these days is a bonus. 

I just checked the valve for the incoming water - range is 25-75psi and it was factory set to 50.  So either it has a problem or someone turned it up before I bought the house.  Still, the pressure tank should pick up the slack.  I checked the pressure on the tank while hooked up and it read 80. I had pressurized it to 75 before connecting it.

This is from the reducing valve for the house.

GregW

The expansion tank needs to be inflated to the actual water pressure inside the house- before it is installed on the piping- unless you have a way to valve it off and remove water pressure on the tank. These things are relatively simple setups. You may want to install a pressure gauge on a faucet that has the indicator the shows what the maximum pressure on the house is. Many years ago I had a similar problem. I found that I did not have a pressure regulator on the house and the pressure was going up to 175# during the night. I installed a quality regulator and the problem was solved. For what it's worth, I don't have an expansion tank because my house does not have a backflow preventer. Without a backflow preventer, a expansion tank is not needed. 

ColbyLang

Could it just be calcium buildup blocking the valve open? When’s the last time it was drained and the sediment washed out of the base? 

SamIAm2

^^^^ This. I also force water back thru the drain connector to force deposits to be suspended inside the tank instead of staying on the bottom. Then disconnect the hose from the house spigot and drain all the water from the tank. It is surprising the amount of sediment build up that occurs in a years time.

Legume

@colbylang @samiam2 thanks for the thoughts, the T&P valve is at the top of the water heater.  I did try to clear the original valve in case there was scale build up or some kind of sediment trapped, but have since installed two different new valves and the issue persists.  It's looking more and more like a pressure issue.

A new drain valve was installed two years ago, the tank was drained then and I've pulled water out a few times since then and haven't seen a huge sediment problem.

fishlessman

i would have changed out the water heater by now, cheap pieces of crap. i dont even trust the warranty sticker on them, i think they sell one version at three price points with different stickers.

Legume

fishlessman said:

i would have changed out the water heater by now, cheap pieces of crap. i dont even trust the warranty sticker on them, i think they sell one version at three price points with different stickers.

Let's be honest, you would be heating water on your wood stove, but not too much so it doesn't heat the cabin above 50.  If the pressure valve coming into the house is bad, a new water heater wouldn't help me anyway.

fishlessman

Legume said:

fishlessman said:

i would have changed out the water heater by now, cheap pieces of crap. i dont even trust the warranty sticker on them, i think they sell one version at three price points with different stickers.

Let's be honest, you would be heating water on your wood stove, but not too much so it doesn't heat the cabin above 50.  If the pressure valve coming into the house is bad, a new water heater wouldn't help me anyway.

to be honest, the last one at the house took about 6 months before i changed it out. in 20 years between the house and the camp ive installed 4 new ones. their lifetime seems to be getting shorter as well

Roadpuke0

I Pressure reducing valves go bad, must make sure you stabilize the pressure to start. Take several reading through out the day, it should never fluctuate more than a few pounds, if working correctly.Still if the pressure tank is not set correctly your going to keep beating your head against the wall. Are you sure you have installed the correct t&p valve with the correct rating as well?

 With expansion tank empty of water, adjust air precharge to match cold water supply pressure. Again, you match pressure. Go to Amtrol expansion tanks and look up some residential ex tanks and there distructions and it may help.

Legume

Roadpuke0 said:

I Pressure reducing valves go bad, must make sure you stabilize the pressure to start. Take several reading through out the day, it should never fluctuate more than a few pounds, if working correctly.Still if the pressure tank is not set correctly your going to keep beating your head against the wall. Are you sure you have installed the correct t&p valve with the correct rating as well?

 With expansion tank empty of water, adjust air precharge to match cold water supply pressure. Again, you match pressure. Go to Amtrol expansion tanks and look up some residential ex tanks and their distructions and it may help.

I did match the tank pressure to the house pressure measured at a hose bib.  I don't have a way to measure closer to the water heater which is maybe only 20' of copper from the reducing valve.  I may check a few different times of day.

The T&P valves all match, 150 psi and 210F.  Different packaging, but they all look like they came off the same manufacturing line, including the original.  I've got a plumber coming soon. I'm handing it off to a pro, because I am not.

fishlessman

Ru city pressure or well. I have both. City is 105 psi, no bladder tank. Well is 35 psi with the bladder. With the bladder you need to shut the pump down , open the faucets and pump it up.  You know something is wrong when the pump runs to much..         I've changed the pressure relief before and always replaced the heater when it didn't work on city pressure

Roadpuke0

T&P fyi. The pressure on the valve’s tag must be compared to the pressure on the vessel’s nameplate. The pressure rating of the relief valve must be equal to or less than the MAWP of the vessel. Most water heaters have an MAWP of 150 psi; however, some are rated higher, typically 160 psi. Something check off the list 

Roadpuke0

Last thing to check also is the relieving capacity of the valve must be equal to or greater than the Btu/hr. of the vessel. The thermal capacity of the water heater can be found on its nameplate along with the MAWP. Good luck hope it helps

JohnfromKentucky

RRP said:

hmmm…you keep confusing that hot water heater with you second wife! 

you heat up your hot water? hehehe  my brother's pet peeve is when i call it a hot water heater. I do it to get his goat.

poster

Legume said:

10 year old water heater, I sincerely hope it hasn't gone bad already.

My insurance company called me and said my tank is 8 years old so it's at the end of its life and needs to be replaced or I will no longer be eligible for flood insurance. I let it ride and 6 months later I started having thermocouple issues so i just changed the whole thing. It was a 50 gal gas unit

Ozzie_Isaac

poster said:

Legume said:

10 year old water heater, I sincerely hope it hasn't gone bad already.

My insurance company called me and said my tank is 8 years old so it's at the end of its life and needs to be replaced or I will no longer be eligible for flood insurance. I let it ride and 6 months later I started having thermocouple issues so i just changed the whole thing. It was a 50 gal gas unit

Dang!  You must not be in the USA.  My insurance company barley knows where my house is.

fishlessman

poster said:

Legume said:

10 year old water heater, I sincerely hope it hasn't gone bad already.

My insurance company called me and said my tank is 8 years old so it's at the end of its life and needs to be replaced or I will no longer be eligible for flood insurance. I let it ride and 6 months later I started having thermocouple issues so i just changed the whole thing. It was a 50 gal gas unit

You called your ins.....oooof

fishlessman

fishlessman said:

poster said:

Legume said:

10 year old water heater, I sincerely hope it hasn't gone bad already.

My insurance company called me and said my tank is 8 years old so it's at the end of its life and needs to be replaced or I will no longer be eligible for flood insurance. I let it ride and 6 months later I started having thermocouple issues so i just changed the whole thing. It was a 50 gal gas unit

You called your ins.....oooof Reread it. Ins can be dousce 

alaskanassasin

alaskanassasin

Or you can plumb an inline pressure gauge in about 20 seconds with pex plumbing or sharkbite to existing 

Legume

alaskanassasin said:

Or you can plumb an inline pressure gauge in about 20 seconds with pex plumbing or sharkbite to existing 

It's all copper, I'm not going to F with it anymore, I'm leaving town for a week, going to turn the water heater to pilot and the plumber comes the day I get back.  There's a point at which I put the shovel down.  I am honestly more bothered that it doesn't make sense to me than I am that I can't/won't fix it.

poster

fishlessman said:

poster said:

Legume said:

10 year old water heater, I sincerely hope it hasn't gone bad already.

My insurance company called me and said my tank is 8 years old so it's at the end of its life and needs to be replaced or I will no longer be eligible for flood insurance. I let it ride and 6 months later I started having thermocouple issues so i just changed the whole thing. It was a 50 gal gas unit

You called your ins.....oooof

No, when I first switched over to them about 9 years back they asked the usual how old are your shingles, furnace, hot water tank etc. I get how they base some rates over shingle age  but not the water tank. Sure enough it's on file and I got a letter exactly 8 years later. At least my shingles are labeled lifetime even though they likely are not. Hate to leave this company, but the rates are fairly good

danhoo

Tank water heaters make a mess when the tank fails. Mines in the garage so it just soaks any boxes on the floor. 

I went tankless last time my tank water heater failed. 

Ozzie_Isaac

Legume said:

alaskanassasin said:

Or you can plumb an inline pressure gauge in about 20 seconds with pex plumbing or sharkbite to existing 

It's all copper, I'm not going to F with it anymore, I'm leaving town for a week, going to turn the water heater to pilot and the plumber comes the day I get back.  There's a point at which I put the shovel down.  I am honestly more bothered that it doesn't make sense to me than I am that I can't/won't fix it.

We are all to invested for you to give up!

Legume

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Legume said:

alaskanassasin said:

Or you can plumb an inline pressure gauge in about 20 seconds with pex plumbing or sharkbite to existing 

It's all copper, I'm not going to F with it anymore, I'm leaving town for a week, going to turn the water heater to pilot and the plumber comes the day I get back.  There's a point at which I put the shovel down.  I am honestly more bothered that it doesn't make sense to me than I am that I can't/won't fix it.

We are all to invested for you to give up!

Hahaha - how about I follow the plumber around with my phone filming him and asking "what are you doing now?  What's that thing?  So you like being a plumber?  What's your favorite ice cream?"  I'll bet an hour job turns into 8 on the bill.

Ozzie_Isaac

Legume said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Legume said:

alaskanassasin said:

Or you can plumb an inline pressure gauge in about 20 seconds with pex plumbing or sharkbite to existing 

It's all copper, I'm not going to F with it anymore, I'm leaving town for a week, going to turn the water heater to pilot and the plumber comes the day I get back.  There's a point at which I put the shovel down.  I am honestly more bothered that it doesn't make sense to me than I am that I can't/won't fix it.

We are all to invested for you to give up!

Hahaha - how about I follow the plumber around with my phone filming him and asking "what are you doing now?  What's that thing?  So you like being a plumber?  What's your favorite ice cream?"  I'll bet an hour job turns into 8 on the bill.

Second guess everything, ask if he has done things (even after he told you he did), ask him to do it again, then tell him he did it wrong.  All while drinking and showing him funny memes.

Legume

I really don't see the value in imitating a wife.

alaskanassasin

While disappointing I can understand your time is worth more than fiddling with a water heater. My final attempt at a troubleshooting question, if we can't test the pressure in the tank, is the water unusually hot?   test a hot water faucet nearest the water tank with a thermometer, if you can check it while it is seeping out of the valve.