Carbon knife care

Ozzie_Isaac

My SiL got me a beautiful knife for Christmas.  I know very little about Carbon steel, care or maintenance.  I have used it, wiped it clean with mild soap and then dried it.  I also have kept it away from every other family member.  It is a real pleasure to use, and want to keep it nice.  It is already developing a patina.

It is White Carbon #2 and a "reactive" Damascus cladding.  This means nothing to me.

Photo Egg

Beautiful knife!
Im far from an expert but the steel you have is tough to keep pristine. You can’t leave it setting wet or uncleared very long and I oil mine right after I hand wash it.
They do make cleaning kits and they work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOSHIHIRO-Tsubaki-Knife-Oil-with-Rust-Eraser-Sabitori-Japanese-Sushi-Chef-Tools/230908766806?pageci=9887c7a8-50a9-4573-af5c-fa48dee9df62&redirect=mobile

Ozzie_Isaac

Photo Egg said:

Beautiful knife!
Im far from an expert but the steel you have is tough to keep pristine. You can’t leave it setting wet or uncleared very long and I oil mine right after I hand wash it.
They do make cleaning kits and they work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOSHIHIRO-Tsubaki-Knife-Oil-with-Rust-Eraser-Sabitori-Japanese-Sushi-Chef-Tools/230908766806?pageci=9887c7a8-50a9-4573-af5c-fa48dee9df62&redirect=mobile

I just put on a very light coat of food grade mineral oil.  Thank you for that tip.  The patina happened as I was chopping some onions.  That doesn't bother me at all, I plan to use it, I just want to make sure I don't screw it up.

It has an asymmetric handle that is very comfortable with a pinch grip.  The balance is fantastic, and sharpness is unreal.  My BiL touched it up before they gave it to me.  It just melts through onions and vegetables.  Never used a knife like that.  I have only used western knives and a chinese cleaver.

Photo Egg

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Photo Egg said:

Beautiful knife!
Im far from an expert but the steel you have is tough to keep pristine. You can’t leave it setting wet or uncleared very long and I oil mine right after I hand wash it.
They do make cleaning kits and they work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YOSHIHIRO-Tsubaki-Knife-Oil-with-Rust-Eraser-Sabitori-Japanese-Sushi-Chef-Tools/230908766806?pageci=9887c7a8-50a9-4573-af5c-fa48dee9df62&redirect=mobile

I just put on a very light coat of food grade mineral oil.  Thank you for that tip.  The patina happened as I was chopping some onions.  That doesn't bother me at all, I plan to use it, I just want to make sure I don't screw it up.

It has an asymmetric handle that is very comfortable with a pinch grip.  The balance is fantastic, and sharpness is unreal.  My BiL touched it up before they gave it to me.  It just melts through onions and vegetables.  Never used a knife like that.  I have only used western knives and a chinese cleaver.

You got it under control. The upside is it should very easily take an edge or touch up.
I have One very similar and love it. I also have a longer more traditional Tanaka in the same material as yours. It has been challenging to keep it looking good.

HeavyG

I'd say let the new knife develop a patina naturally or go ahead and force a patina onto it. Trying to keep that thing looking like it's new out of the box is like those folks that insist that their pots and pans stay shiny and new on the outside and spend lots of time rubbing barkeepers friend on them  - there are better things on which to spend one's finite amount of time on Earth.

To help keep them free from rust the tsubaki oil is nice but is kinda pricey. I use coconut oil. It's cheap, I always have some around, and it doesn't really go rancid so you don't have to worry about using it on knives you may not use frequently.

When I oil mine I wipe them so well they actually look like there is no oil on them, just like when one seasons raw carbon steel skillet.

fishlessman

make a big pot of french onion soup, dont wash the blade, just wipe it clean with a dry paper towel. oil will just slow down the patina process. i dont use a steel with japanese bevels, just a hard stone (not a diamond, they cause small knicks in the blade). the edge will dull with it just sitting there in time as it pretty much doesnt develope patina, maybe even the patina dulls it. two swipes each side on a hard stone usually brings back the edge when that happens. my carbon steel knives are not close to that nice, my grandmothers bil was a butcher back in the 40's early 50's, i got the knives

TechsasJim

I have a very similar knife.    Use it for odds and ends but haven’t encountered the patina…yet…but I wouldn’t let it bother you so long as the edge isn’t impaired.   

The best cymbals in the world have a solid patina—adds character.   

U_tarded

I’m blaming you for the last hour of knife searching and related rabbit holes.  My conclusion is if I got that knife I would force a patina with vinegar due to the reactive cladding having potential to transfer an off taste or smell and discoloration to some foods.  Also I’m resisting ordering another knife. 

*edited for typos

Langner91

I have a knife problem.  I have been ebaying knives this entire holiday season.  It is probably a good thing, otherwise, I would have bought a chamber sealer by now.

Ozzie_Isaac

U_tarded said:

I’m blaming you for the last hour of knife searching and related rabbit holes.  My conclusion is if I got that knife I would force a patina with vinegar due to the reactive cladding having potential to transfer an off taste or smell and discoloration to some foods.  Also I’m resisting ordering another knife. 

*edited for typos

I wandered down that rabbit hole.  Plan os a hot blood patina tomorrow.  Supposedly gives a beautiful blue patina

alaskanassasin

Loving the chamber sealer @Langner91 the knifes I want are back ordered.

kl8ton

I like that knife!

It's a rabbit hole I've avoided thus far.

I've also avoided SV and vacuum sealers. 

MasterC

Chamber vacuum sealer=compressed apples and hot damn... wow

SGH

Ozzie_Isaac said:

My SiL got me a beautiful knife for Christmas.  I know very little about Carbon steel, care or maintenance.  I have used it, wiped it clean with mild soap and then dried it.  I also have kept it away from every other family member.  It is a real pleasure to use, and want to keep it nice.  It is already developing a patina.

It is White Carbon #2 and a "reactive" Damascus cladding.  This means nothing to me.

I know this is more than obvious but that will make a great sphincter slicer 👍

Ozzie_Isaac

SGH said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

My SiL got me a beautiful knife for Christmas.  I know very little about Carbon steel, care or maintenance.  I have used it, wiped it clean with mild soap and then dried it.  I also have kept it away from every other family member.  It is a real pleasure to use, and want to keep it nice.  It is already developing a patina.

It is White Carbon #2 and a "reactive" Damascus cladding.  This means nothing to me.

I know this is more than obvious but that will make a great sphincter slicer 👍

Country calamari.  A favorite of mine.

MaskedMarvel

Ozzie_Isaac said:

My SiL got me a beautiful knife for Christmas.  I know very little about Carbon steel, care or maintenance.  I have used it, wiped it clean with mild soap and then dried it.  I also have kept it away from every other family member.  It is a real pleasure to use, and want to keep it nice.  It is already developing a patina.

It is White Carbon #2 and a "reactive" Damascus cladding.  This means nothing to me.

Yeah that’s beautiful. Really. 

I have one carbon knife. I wipe it down with whatever oil I have around after using it. Every time. Still is getting a patina. I’m learning to look forward to how it matures. 

GrateEggspectations

Just for anyone who may be new to carbon steel knives and is reading this…. Many manufacturers now clad their carbon blades in stainless steel to make them simpler to maintain. A very nice option, but like anything, it adds to price. Also keeps it from developing those beautiful patinas. 

Grogu

My other hobby is making knives. Carbon steel will patina. There is no stopping it, nor do you want to. The natural patina as it builds up will actually serve as protection against more severe corrosion. I do not recommend forcing a patina unless you specifically want the look of a forced patina. Forced patina on a pattern welded blade is generally not desirable. On a straight carbon blade a mustard forced patina provides a very nice protective pattern. A natural patina looks great on a pattern welded blade with different hues coming from different foods.

For that knife, my advice would be use it and afterwards wash and dry thoroughly before putting away. Let it build its own natural patina over time. Don’t leave sitting wet to air dry or worse put away in a saya or block wet. I would only advise oiling if you know you won’t be using it for a while. You don’t have to spend big bucks on an oil. Cutting board oil is really just food safe mineral oil and works just fine. Be careful that the blade is fully dry before oiling. Oil doesn’t remove water, worse you can trap moisture under the oil if you weren’t dry to start. You can also wax it  every once in a while to give it a nice additional protection. This is something you should do for the handle, but you can also wax the blade. There is a product called “Axe Wax” from some folks in Oregon that I like for kitchen knives. Originally made for axe handles and heads, but they used all natural products so it’s food safe. I put a coat on the handle and blade of every kitchen knife I make.

alaskanassasin

nice write up @Grogu, good info there.

Ozzie_Isaac

Question on honing rods/steels.

My understanding is honing steels realign the burr, so on these carbon steel blades with mirror finish, should you use a steel/ceramic rod?.Maybe a leather strap would be better, or touch it up on a finish stone?

fishlessman

That blade has a Rockwell hardness of 62. It will not burr, the steel rod is worthless on it. Finish stone it is fine, it's the only way I would sharpen the Japanese angle

Grogu

A honing steel just “aligns” and edge. It doesn’t actually sharpen the blade. Older knives were much softer and the edge was more likely to fold or push to a side during use rather than chip (this isn’t the same thing as a “burr” which happens during sharpening and needs to be removed not aligned). A honing steel run down each side will push the edge back to center. If you have something like a vintage Sabatier, a honing steel is ideal to realign the edge without unnecessarily removing steel from the blade. A modern knife at a high hardness is not going to roll to a side. The edge will wear straight (if used wrong may chip). A honing steel will do nothing on a modern high hardness knife.

A ceramic rod is NOT the same as a honing steel. A ceramic rod is just a ceramic sharpener in rod shape. These will actually sharpen a modern knife. That said, due to the small area of surface contact when sharpening it can be tricky to maintain a good consistent sharpening angle with a rod. This isn’t such an issue of using one of the sharpeners that holds the rod in a base at a set angle and you just have to hold the blade straight. Free handing the rod and knife at the same time though is tough. I really only like rods for recurve blades to sharpen the inside curve.

Leather strops are more for polishing an edge than sharpening. A high polished edge is showing off on a chef knife. You don’t actually need it for the intended use of the knife. A straight razor is a different story. The issue with stropping is that the soft leather allows you to push the edge in too far and accidentally round over the edge fairly easily.

My recommendation would be a “stone” but not actually a stone. True water stones are for folks who really want to get into their sharpening. You can get great results, but there’s more involved and you have to maintain the stones to keep them flat etc. Ceramic or diamond stones are much better for someone who is just interested enough in sharpening to keep their knife in good shape. Keep in mind a wider stone gives you more contact area which makes finding and holding and angle easier. A longer stone allows you to get a better pass. In short bigger is better. If you don’t trust yourself to hold an angle, get one of the jig rigs. If you get a jig that clamps the blade, put painters tape on the blade before you clamp it on to not scratch that beautiful knife.

lkapigian

^^^^^ thank you^^^^

Ozzie_Isaac

@Grogu thank you for all your help!  Any tips, tricks, recommendations, etc are greatly appreciated.  As is any discussion.  Especially thank you for explanation on honing rods and stroping. 

Since I have yet to meet a skill that didn't interest me, and a tool I didn't like, here is what I picked up to help learn with.

Plan is lots of practice on some older cheapie knives I have and in the meantime let my BiL keep touching up the nicer stuff when it needs it.

Grogu

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@Grogu thank you for all your help!  Any tips, tricks, recommendations, etc are greatly appreciated.  As is any discussion.  Especially thank you for explanation on honing rods and stroping. 

Since I have yet to meet a skill that didn't interest me, and a tool I didn't like, here is what I picked up to help learn with.

Plan is lots of practice on some older cheapie knives I have and in the meantime let my BiL keep touching up the nicer stuff when it needs it.

Those will get you started nicely. Welcome to the sharpening rabbit hole. It’s a deep but fascinating one. Enjoy the new addiction!

Ozzie_Isaac

Sharpened a Misen chef knife and learned a few lessons:

1.  Need to keep adding water, more than I would have thought.

2.  Finding the current angle of the knife was not as easy as YouTubers say.  They say just roll it till you feel it.  Eventually I got the feel for it, but it is not an exact science for me.

3.  Took a while to find the comfortable way to hold the knife and ensure even pressure and control.  Everyone on YouTube had a different way.

4.  After a while I just stopped fiddling and went for it.  It took more pressure than I thought for the 1200 grit stone, and a lot less pressure for the 6000 grit stone.

Now, the biggies:

5. Neither stone was flat out of the box.  I was really struggling, they seemed flat with my ruler test, but they must have been off enough to impact my progress.  Once I used the fixing stone, things went a lot faster and smoother.  Both stones needed touching up.

6. It is not as easy as I hoped, but it wasn't as hard as I feared.  Nothing substituted just trying to find what worked for me.

6.  $h!t is sharp.  I literally just bumped my finger while switching to the 6000 grit and cut it.  Not a slice, not a cut, not dragging, and not a hard bump, literally just super light bump and I cut my finger enough to bleed.

7.  Eveyone seems to have their own style and lots of contradictory commentary.  Knife makers sharpen different than Chefs, and Kenji Alt-Lopez, my cooking guru, didn't have the science or explanation behind his methods that I hoped.

bbracey21

@Ozzie_Isaac

I was on Misen’s website yesterday and ran across this video they shared. Doesn’t do you much good right now but maybe for the next time you need to sharpen them. 

https://youtu.be/NZ4N7nExUYY

They also offer free lifetime sharpening if you wish to pay the S&H and be without your knives for a period of time. 

https://help.misen.com/how-do-i-sharpen-my-knives-ryi9ZOUzY

Ozzie_Isaac

bbracey21 said:

@Ozzie_Isaac

I was on Misen’s website yesterday and ran across this video they shared. Doesn’t do you much good right now but maybe for the next time you need to sharpen them. 

https://youtu.be/NZ4N7nExUYY

They also offer free lifetime sharpening if you wish to pay the S&H and be without your knives for a period of time. 

https://help.misen.com/how-do-i-sharpen-my-knives-ryi9ZOUzY

Thank you for the links, I will check them out!

Grogu

At the risk of sounding snobbish, if it’s easy to feel the secondary bevel just rolling the knife on the stone, that’s an indication of a blade that’s too thick behind the edge. In other words, don’t feel bad it didn’t feel obvious because that can be simply having a properly thinned blade. You’ve discovered the fiddlyness of water stones I was referencing about needing to keep wet and flat, but it sounds like you’ve worked through those well. Keep in mind those water stones “dish” or wear as you use them. You’ll want to regularly check and flatten them as needed before use. As for the amount of pressure needed on the 1200, that’s still a fairly high grit stone. You might try getting something in the 600-800 range as your first step stone if you have a blade that is in real need of sharpening. 1200 is fine to go back to for touch ups. The 6000 you’re not finding the need for much pressure because you are really just polishing at that point, not really removing steel. As you found when switching stones, you’ll actually have a really sharp functional edge after the 1200 and don’t really need to go to the 6000 for most uses if you are just looking to be able to touch up and use. It’s fun to take it to the high finish though and have a laser. I finish my edges on a Belgian Blue stone that is roughly equivalent to a 4000-6000.

Ozzie_Isaac

Grogu said:

At the risk of sounding snobbish, if it’s easy to feel the secondary bevel just rolling the knife on the stone, that’s an indication of a blade that’s too thick behind the edge. In other words, don’t feel bad it didn’t feel obvious because that can be simply having a properly thinned blade. You’ve discovered the fiddlyness of water stones I was referencing about needing to keep wet and flat, but it sounds like you’ve worked through those well. Keep in mind those water stones “dish” or wear as you use them. You’ll want to regularly check and flatten them as needed before use. As for the amount of pressure needed on the 1200, that’s still a fairly high grit stone. You might try getting something in the 600-800 range as your first step stone if you have a blade that is in real need of sharpening. 1200 is fine to go back to for touch ups. The 6000 you’re not finding the need for much pressure because you are really just polishing at that point, not really removing steel. As you found when switching stones, you’ll actually have a really sharp functional edge after the 1200 and don’t really need to go to the 6000 for most uses if you are just looking to be able to touch up and use. It’s fun to take it to the high finish though and have a laser. I finish my edges on a Belgian Blue stone that is roughly equivalent to a 4000-6000.

I will pick up an 800 grit stone.  I just touched up a pocket knife.  I have used a ken onion edition work sharp for years, but I am enjoying my honeymoon phase with these stones.

fishlessman

i wouldnt take a kitchen knife over 1200 grit. i do have the belgium blue with a grit somewhere around 4000-6000 (it varies by the amount of slurry you build up rubbing a similar stone with water over the sharpening stone) and a natural yellow coticule that will take it up to 10,000 grit.   these i reserve for straight razors where a highly polished sharp straight razor is needed, the last step is polishing by pulling the razor backwards on news paper softly.  some of my pocket knives cut butter with an 800 grit max stone.  some of the newer stainless knives with vanadium in the composition cut better with lower grits as well. vg-1, vg-10(shuns), s90v (upper class benchmades) and one heavy shashimi knife with loads of vanadium (hardest knife ive ever sharpened, full hollow on backside, 3/4 inch flat bevel on front, its only sharpened flat on the bevel side) im getting close with that one, it eats any stone you throw at it.