OT: HVAC question - smart thermostat is too smart.

sumoconnell

Hello all - 

With the HVAC expertise on this forum, I thought I’d ask some questions my smart thermostat is about to ask. Hope it’s simple!  Basically, I know I have a normal residential AC system, and a heater with a heat pump and a coil. This is (hopefully) confirmed with my current wiring at the thermostat. 

My basic question is below in the highlighted part of the images.   Images loaded exactly backwards. The last picture is my current setup. Middle is my new wiring. I think that’s ok. It’s the first picture with the basic questions. 

basic questions are system type and change over valve type. 

Thanks in advance for looking - didn’t mean to get the contractor pack on prime day, but I did. 

GrateEggspectations

I am of no help here, but these types of questions and the great answers often generated by other members are what really amaze me about this community. 

Good luck. 

JohnInCarolina

lkapigian

Orange is your reversing valve on your original stat, energizes in cool mode , select cooling valve changeover and put the wire on o/b spot ( typically Carrier Payne  Bryant energies valve in cooling mode) system type heat pump ( 

sumoconnell

lkapigian said:

Orange is your reversing valve on your original stat, energizes in cool mode , select cooling valve changeover and put the wire on o/b spot ( typically Carrier Payne  Bryant energies valve in cooling mode) system type heat pump ( 

Thanks @lkapigian - what could go wrong   Will report back post installation..

stlcharcoal

Don't get too crazy setting it to dial back the power during the day when you're not there.  Lot of times it doesn't save you squat because later in the afternoon when it's hot, it's running both compressors and/or in stage 2 to "recover".  If it can only run one or stage 1 all day, it may be cheaper.  Your hot water use may play into this as well if you have a desuperheater.  There are a ton of factors that come into play.

Example:  I have a ground source heat pump (geothermal) system with a whole house steam humidifier and ventilation/dehumidifier system.  Monthly average bill is about $140 for a 6-bedroom (very efficient) house.   Years ago I did an experiment to see if I'd save anything running my wood stove non-stop.  I probably burned through a half cord of wood, and it lowered my energy usage by $25 (which I easily spent on saw chain sharpening, chainsaw premix, etc.)  Why?  Because hot water is the byproduct of the geo, I had to pay to run my 80 gallon water heater because it wasn't drawing "free hot water" from desuperheater's 50 gallon buffer tank.  Then the fan still had to run to circulate for the wood stove, and for the steam humidifier (even though I always run a steam few kettles on top of the wood stove.)  So, robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Now I run the circulator fan runs non-stop at 40%, and the temp is constant unless I leave town for 3+ days......it's a wash otherwise.

cookingdude555

Dialing a thermostat back when you are not home will not save you (much) energy. Unless you only return to your home when it’s already cool due to the current temperature. Your heat pump (A/C) must pump all of the heat out of your furniture, walls, etc.  having a smart thermometer turn it down when you’re gone will cause uncomfortable temp swings.

Now to answer your original question, the wiring stuff is always a challenge to me too. I did install a smart therm so I can make adjustments on my phone and I love that aspect. 

Mini split in master. Humidity is high in there now as someone is showering. 

johnmitchell

And all of this knowledge on a BBQ forum. Outstanding gentlemen!!

TechsasJim

Seems like your questions have been answered but to chime in I absolutely hate our Nest thermostat and thankfully we only have it on one of the two units.  

It has a mind of its own and does whatever the heck it wants—regardless of what setting I use on the app.   Summers in the Houston area are brutally hot/humid and it doesn’t mind letting it jump up to 81 and only when we pass by it does it come back on and it takes hours to get back to our 74 temp we prefer.   

Ok end of rant.  

sumoconnell

Well- I must have had a wire crossed. 

Just kidding - installation this weekend.  Thanks for all the help!

lkapigian

sumoconnell said:

Well- I must have had a wire crossed. 

Just kidding - installation this weekend.  Thanks for all the help!

sent you a dm with my # if you need help

Canugghead

johnmitchell said:

And all of this knowledge on a BBQ forum. Outstanding gentlemen!!

From global climate change to indoor climate change, geopolitical to geothermal, we’ve got you covered 🥵🥶

SonVolt

Can anyone confirm/deny the "don't turn your thermostat up when you're gone" thing? I was also interested in getting a smart stat, but not if it won't save money. 

fishlessman

SonVolt said:

Can anyone confirm/deny the "don't turn your thermostat up when you're gone" thing? I was also interested in getting a smart stat, but not if it won't save money. 

my roof top office/box has the ac on a timer, if it does not turn on by 6am the office is never coming down in temp.  theres lots of things that need to be considered, insulation, how many windows facing the sun, type of windows, curtains, insulated curtains..........im trapped in a car with the windows rolled up and left there

lkapigian

SonVolt said:

Can anyone confirm/deny the "don't turn your thermostat up when you're gone" thing? I was also interested in getting a smart stat, but not if it won't save money. 

Do you unplug your refrigerator when you leave the house?  :#

Mild setbacks are ok, but when weather is extreme, net run time savings is nothing as you will spend more time recovering your loss/gains

Also "Smart Recovery" will throw people off, unlike old setback stats where there set back/forward at a given time, a smart stat will learn how fast your home gains/loses heat based upon OSA/IA and it will adjust the start times to Be At Setpoint at the time you set 

Legume

My home came with a nest.  I’ve over-ridden it with a manually programmed schedule. It’s smart for the room where it is located, but not for the whole house.  My house is inefficient and takes a long time to recover with AC, heat not so bad.

Ozzie_Isaac

TechsasJim said:

Seems like your questions have been answered but to chime in I absolutely hate our Nest thermostat and thankfully we only have it on one of the two units.  

It has a mind of its own and does whatever the heck it wants—regardless of what setting I use on the app.   Summers in the Houston area are brutally hot/humid and it doesn’t mind letting it jump up to 81 and only when we pass by it does it come back on and it takes hours to get back to our 74 temp we prefer.   

Ok end of rant.  

Make sure you have big-brother turned off.  When I installed my Nest thermometer it was linked to a service that "auto" adjusted my thermostat based on community power usage and some green initiative BS.  No matter what I scheduled, it would over ride it.  I finally found the setting and turned it off. I decide the temp of my house, not some board of do-gooders who think I should turn over control to them.

My eecobee's have the same setting, and it to was defaulted to "ON".

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/electric-utilities-can-now-adjust-your-nest-thermostat-to-shift-energy-demand/

HeavyG

"Let them eat cake" vs "We're all in this together".

Ozzie_Isaac

HeavyG said:

"Let them eat cake" vs "We're all in this together".

If I were in charge, I would utilize profits to improve our infrastructure instead of returning it to shareholders.  I also wouldn't have privatized utilities.  Would have invested in nuclear power too.  I wouldn't trust a politician to mow my lawn, why would I trust them to control my house temperature?

lkapigian

The utilities cannot use the feature on Ecobee or others without you enrolling the stat into the curtailment program, ......at least in our areas that's how it is, they cannot randomly adjust temp without your stats ID in their system ...back in the day they put curtailment boxes on your AC and they would shut the compressor off that way, never after 5 pm and only in certain time intervals...not worth a credit of $200.00 on my account 

Mark_B_Good

Ozzie_Isaac said:

TechsasJim said:

Seems like your questions have been answered but to chime in I absolutely hate our Nest thermostat and thankfully we only have it on one of the two units.  

It has a mind of its own and does whatever the heck it wants—regardless of what setting I use on the app.   Summers in the Houston area are brutally hot/humid and it doesn’t mind letting it jump up to 81 and only when we pass by it does it come back on and it takes hours to get back to our 74 temp we prefer.   

Ok end of rant.  

Make sure you have big-brother turned off.  When I installed my Nest thermometer it was linked to a service that "auto" adjusted my thermostat based on community power usage and some green initiative BS.  No matter what I scheduled, it would over ride it.  I finally found the setting and turned it off. I decide the temp of my house, not some board of do-gooders who think I should turn over control to them.

My eecobee's have the same setting, and it to was defaulted to "ON".

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/electric-utilities-can-now-adjust-your-nest-thermostat-to-shift-energy-demand/

That "smart" (stupid) function was turned off on my house in the first day.  That feature is nuts ... temperatures were all over the show.

fishlessman

i just turn the heat off or set it for 50 when the house needs to be warmer. for AC the govt so far lets me use the OUTDOOR LIFE NETWORK FOR FREE..... windows go up, screens go down

lousubcap

@fishlessman - livin large with dropping the screens.  I guess if you run dark and quiet the bugs won't be attracted to a light source.  

theyolksonyou

fishlessman said:

i just turn the heat off or set it for 50 when the house needs to be warmer. for AC the govt so far lets me use the OUTDOOR LIFE NETWORK FOR FREE..... windows go up, screens go down

How hot does it get in Fucahwee, ME?

HeavyG

fishlessman said:

i just turn the heat off or set it for 50 when the house needs to be warmer. for AC the govt so far lets me use the OUTDOOR LIFE NETWORK FOR FREE..... windows go up, screens go down

Guessing you don't have many 95°F/90%RH days up there.

Ozzie_Isaac

lkapigian said:

The utilities cannot use the feature on Ecobee or others without you enrolling the stat into the curtailment program, ......at least in our areas that's how it is, they cannot randomly adjust temp without your stats ID in their system ...back in the day they put curtailment boxes on your AC and they would shut the compressor off that way, never after 5 pm and only in certain time intervals...not worth a credit of $200.00 on my account 

I may have misunderstood, but the features showed "enabled" in my menu.  During my account setup, I linked my utility account because I got a $50 smart thermostat credit.  Maybe that was my "opt-in". Not even the fine print said they got to control anything.  No matter, the first day my wife called and said the thermostat went to 80deg.  I turned that all off.  Wouldn't be worth $5,000 let alone $50.  They never took the credit back either.

lkapigian

Ozzie_Isaac said:

lkapigian said:

The utilities cannot use the feature on Ecobee or others without you enrolling the stat into the curtailment program, ......at least in our areas that's how it is, they cannot randomly adjust temp without your stats ID in their system ...back in the day they put curtailment boxes on your AC and they would shut the compressor off that way, never after 5 pm and only in certain time intervals...not worth a credit of $200.00 on my account 

I may have misunderstood, but the features showed "enabled" in my menu.  During my account setup, I linked my utility account because I got a $50 smart thermostat credit.  Maybe that was my "opt-in". Not even the fine print said they got to control anything.  No matter, the first day my wife called and said the thermostat went to 80deg.  I turned that all off.  Wouldn't be worth $5,000 let alone $50.  They never took the credit back either.

Yup, that did it… Do Not Link With utilities and you are ok … 

fishlessman

lousubcap said:

@fishlessman - livin large with dropping the screens.  I guess if you run dark and quiet the bugs won't be attracted to a light source.  

i still have single panes with tracked storm windows with screens, problem is that my old indian shutters dont close with the screwed on storms. the storms were probably a great upgrade back in the 1930's.  in maine you put mosquito repellent on when going to bed.

fishlessman

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

i just turn the heat off or set it for 50 when the house needs to be warmer. for AC the govt so far lets me use the OUTDOOR LIFE NETWORK FOR FREE..... windows go up, screens go down

Guessing you don't have many 95°F/90%RH days up there.

we hit 99 one day last week but 63 degrees at night is ridiculously too hot

Yno

Hoping for a quick bit of help, here. This is the wiring for my old Honeywell thermostat. Yes, it appears the blue wire identifies as yellow. Whatever. Anyway, I was wondering if I can install a smart thermostat, but I have read something about a mysterious C wire, which I don't seem to have. Do I need an electrician? I don't feel up to running wires back to the furnace, and I would rather not blow the house up.

Edit to add the picture!

Elijah

Don't know what brand you're considering but nest has this https://store.google.com/product/nest_power_connector?hl=en-US&pli=1

I bought the nest, realized I needed it, got one quick, received an email a few days later telling me I could get one free from Google.