We had a good run as a country

JohnInCarolina

crazy

http://twitter.com/samstein/status/1521288348010229764?s=20&t=cxVEaM7ScVtAFvjyg2EWuA

Gulfcoastguy

Why am I not surprised that a draft decision was leaked?

dmchicago

Nothing good about any of this. 

JohnInCarolina

Gulfcoastguy said:

Why am I not surprised that a draft decision was leaked?

Given the topic, none of us should be surprised. But don’t lose the forest for the trees man.

JohnInCarolina

http://twitter.com/Max_Fisher/status/1521302433896480768?s=20&t=emghjb_PuUXXYty3WstuNA

nolaegghead

We’ll be joining the ranks of Muslim countries.  This is why people left Europe in the first place, freedom from religions making laws.

nolaegghead

Nothing like having the government taking away women’s constitutional right to control their own and their doctor’s medical decisions on reproduction.

We’re getting redder….

dmchicago

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

Nothing like having the government taking away women’s constitutional right to control their own and their doctor’s medical decisions on reproduction.

We’re getting redder….

Imagine looking at that map and concluding the red regions are definitely the ones that have this right.  Good effing Lord.

lousubcap

A bit more on the leaked Supreme Court draft:

"The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to a leaked initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito. “We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.” The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion. No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending. Josh Gerstein and Alexander Ward report for POLITICO. 

Sources have said that Chief Justice John Roberts did not want to completely overturn Roe v. Wade, meaning he would have dissented from part of Alito's draft opinion - likely with the court’s three liberals. That would mean that the five conservative justices that would make up the majority overturning Roe are Alito and Justices Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Tierney Sneed, Ariane de Vogue and Joan Biskupic report for CNN."

fishlessman

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

JohnInCarolina

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

fishlessman

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

not good planning on the dems side... and well,  she was a stubborn old bird.   so now that the sc has waded in the roe pool, you can only imagine what comes next.  things really are going to get crazy

JohnInCarolina

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

not good planning on the dems side... and well,  she was a stubborn old bird.   so now that the sc has waded in the roe pool, you can only imagine what comes next.  things really are going to get crazy

The instinct to react to this by mostly focusing on RBG is just bizarre.  

fishlessman

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

not good planning on the dems side... and well,  she was a stubborn old bird.   so now that the sc has waded in the roe pool, you can only imagine what comes next.  things really are going to get crazy

The instinct to react to this by mostly focusing on RBG is just bizarre.  

and the obama whitehouse leaving that door open.

JohnInCarolina

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

not good planning on the dems side... and well,  she was a stubborn old bird.   so now that the sc has waded in the roe pool, you can only imagine what comes next.  things really are going to get crazy

The instinct to react to this by mostly focusing on RBG is just bizarre.  

and the obama whitehouse leaving that door open.

Of course.  It's never the fault of the people actually writing the decisions or putting nutjob judges on the court.  I love the party of personal responsibility!

fishlessman

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

JohnInCarolina said:

fishlessman said:

never thought i would see this but the writing was on the wall when ginsburg didnt step down

"I know - let's blame a woman for this!"

not good planning on the dems side... and well,  she was a stubborn old bird.   so now that the sc has waded in the roe pool, you can only imagine what comes next.  things really are going to get crazy

The instinct to react to this by mostly focusing on RBG is just bizarre.  

and the obama whitehouse leaving that door open.

Of course.  It's never the fault of the people actually writing the decisions or putting nutjob judges on the court.  I love the party of personal responsibility!

obama didnt take responsibility for it, and trump ran on it

Canugghead

Thought I read "We had a rood gun as a country", my bad. I went for cataract surgery evaluation but was told to wait few more years 

HeavyG

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1521537691023720448

JohnInCarolina

@HeavyG - Walker Bragman is a weapons-grade jackass.

nolaegghead

Ummm….filibuster?

JohnInCarolina

nolaegghead said:

Ummm….filibuster?

Obviously just a minor detail!

nolaegghead

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/05/03/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-supreme-court-reportedly-set-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/

lousubcap

Frictionless conduit here from nextdraft.com:

"SKID ROE

It was inevitable. Those are the first three words of one of the most notable openings in literature from Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel García Márquez. The same three words would make a decent opening to any article on the leaked draft that indicates the Supreme Court is about to overturn Roe v Wade. It was inevitable because that's precisely what this Court was designed to do. While, until recently, the majority of Americans assumed the fight for choice was over, another group of Americans have been working for decades to remake the courts in their image; and with the help of the Federalist Society's unwavering focus, Mitch McConnell's nomination blockades and Donald Trump's transactional nature, they've achieved the goal. Several of today's justices were "shepherded toward nomination and confirmation with the support of the conservative Federalist Society and its influential vice president, Leonard Leo. It was Leo's list of potential justices that Trump drew from time and again during his presidency. 'No one has been more dedicated to the enterprise of building a Supreme Court that will overturn Roe v. Wade than the Federalist Society's Leonard Leo' ...The idea that any of Leo's picks for the Supreme Court would be averse to decimating, if not eliminating, abortion rights has always been delusional." Politico with the leaked draft: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows. One of the lessons of this decision, and of many other instances of America's backtracking on rights and norms you thought were long settled is that, in a democracy like ours, the fight is never over. It's an ongoing journey. We opened this paragraph with the first line of Love in the Time of Cholera. Let's close it with the last line, as it also applies to the fight for the America most of us want: "'And how long do you think we can keep up this **** coming and going?' he asked. Florentino Ariza had kept his answer ready for fifty-three years, seven months, and eleven days and nights. ‘Forever,' he said."  Let's assume the draft holds, or at least that we'll get to this point in the very near future. What's next? Abortion will be illegal immediately in 13 states, and soon thereafter, it will become illegal in about half of American states. Like in the pre-Roe days, this burden will be felt primarily by the poor (the wealthy can travel for medical procedures). This will be the new state of affairs, regardless of the fact that a majority of Americans are pro-choice and that there is not a single state where support for a federal ban on abortion has more than 30% support. That's one bit of today's news that can be exploited by Democrats. What was a legal issue just became a get out the vote issue.  Removing the right to abortions would not only put America at odds with its own population, it would also go against a very clear international move towards choice. America "will instead join a small cadre of increasingly authoritarian countries that have become more restrictive on abortion in recent years," such as Hungary, Poland, and Brazil. Mary Fitzgerald in the NYT: The World Is Lifting Abortion Restrictions. Why Is the U.S. Moving Against the Tide? (If the tide is towards a more liberal democracy, the U.S. is caught in the undertow.)  For many women, the Court's ruling won't necessarily change much. This is just the latest clampdown on women's rights. "For many Americans, Roe already feels meaningless. Nearly 90 percent of U.S. counties lack a clinic that offers abortions." Jessica Bruder in The Atlantic: The Future of Abortion in a Post-Roe America. Critically, the suppression of rights is unlikely to stop with abortion. "The implications for the law of overruling Roe will be enormous. Justice Alito's draft opinion for the Court says that Roe was 'egregiously wrong' because it protects a right that was not included in the text of the Constitution, was not protected by the original meaning of the Constitution, and was not traditionally safeguarded as a constitutional right. But by that reasoning, countless other Supreme Court decisions protecting basic aspects of privacy and autonomy were wrongly decided as well." Time: The Enormous Consequences of Overruling Roe v. Wade.  + The other big part of this story is the leak. The original Roe v. Wade ruling was leaked, too. But not like this. In fact, nothing in the Court has really been leaked quite like this. Slate's Jeremy Stahl with some theories on who Leaked Samuel Alito's draft opinionstriking down Roe v. Wade—and why? (Prediction: We'll know who leaked it by the end of the week.)  + "Collins discovered she may have been sold a bill of goods by the man who "likes beer," as well as Justice Neil Gorsuch, another Trump appointee who claimed he would protect Roe at all costs." ‘Completely Inconsistent': Susan Collins Seems Shocked Kavanaugh Might've Lied to Her. (I'm ending with Collins' reaction because they say laughter is the best medicine.)"

JohnInCarolina

I've seen plenty of speculation that the draft was leaked by someone who supports it.  The theory being that releasing it in this way before the official announcement helps soften the blow.  Another theory is that Roberts leaked it, in the hopes of pressuring one of the other conservatives off of signing it.  

I'm not sure it matters.  It is telling that folks on the right have been so focused on the question of who leaked this, rather than the actual content of the draft itself.  Many of them have been working towards this for decades.  You'd think they'd be celebrating the likely reversal of Roe more than anything else, but I suspect they know it's really not going to be a popular outcome across the country.  

fishlessman

 

JohnInCarolina said:

I've seen plenty of speculation that the draft was leaked by someone who supports it.  The theory being that releasing it in this way before the official announcement helps soften the blow.  Another theory is that Roberts leaked it, in the hopes of pressuring one of the other conservatives off of signing it.  

I'm not sure it matters.  It is telling that folks on the right have been so focused on the question of who leaked this, rather than the actual content of the draft itself.  Many of them have been working towards this for decades.  You'd think they'd be celebrating the likely reversal of Roe more than anything else, but I suspect they know it's really not going to be a popular outcome across the country.  

i think the average person is burnt out with covid, protests, violence. hs stabbing yesterday in town, pretty much never happens here yet nobody is talking about it. except for the media theres not much talk about this going on in the streets, i guess when it gets released in june we will see. the average person is just burnt out with the news

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

@HeavyG - Walker Bragman is a weapons-grade jackass.

He may well be. When I post a tweet it doesn't mean that I am supportive/approve of their entire ouevre. In this case, I just agree that the Dems (as usual) play softball while the opposing team is (always) playing hardball.

Maybe that will change in the next couple of weeks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

JohnInCarolina

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

@HeavyG - Walker Bragman is a weapons-grade jackass.

He may well be. When I post a tweet it doesn't mean that I am supportive/approve of their entire ouevre. In this case, I just agree that the Dems (as usual) play softball while the opposing team is (always) playing hardball.

Maybe that will change in the next couple of weeks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’m not sure what the Dems are supposed to do about either Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema.  To degrees, neither of them appears to give two craps about doing anything in the interests of the greater good.  

lousubcap

And therein is the challenge "Someone's greater good is someone else's lesser."
The ebb and flow of the pendulum- always present.  

HeavyG

JohnInCarolina said:

HeavyG said:

JohnInCarolina said:

@HeavyG - Walker Bragman is a weapons-grade jackass.

He may well be. When I post a tweet it doesn't mean that I am supportive/approve of their entire ouevre. In this case, I just agree that the Dems (as usual) play softball while the opposing team is (always) playing hardball.

Maybe that will change in the next couple of weeks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’m not sure what the Dems are supposed to do about either Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema.  To degrees, neither of them appears to give two craps about doing anything in the interests of the greater good.  

If Roe v. Wade is overturned it effects far more than just the abortion issue.

Given the near certainty that the Dems are going to lose both chambers this year and quite possibly (likely?) the WH in 24 I'm with those that think the Dems would be wise to at least make the attempt now and force votes in both chambers that would codify the rights being impacted.

No doubt that Manchin and Sinema are wildcards but, given that the vast majority of citizens are supportive of abortion, same-sex marriage, and other issues that may be impacted there may well be enough voters that might "cross over" that current members of Congress might think twice about not supporting Roe v. Wade.

Or, the Dems can just keep doing nothing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Botch

fishlessman said:
and the obama whitehouse leaving that door open. 

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by this.  ???