OT - Need some advice on inground pools

GrateEggspectations

Thanks again to all who responded. I really appreciate the good feedback from everyone. This will be a pretty significant purchase - especially when considering additional funds for electrician, gas guy, water delivery, interlock, a substantial amount of new fencing and a new shed, among other things - so I greatly value being able to weigh the considerations you are presenting. 

@lkapigian: The quote from the company I’m most inclined to go with does not list whether it is variable speed or not. I must admit that I had assumed it would be, as this is what I got on the out-ground pool I had installed several years back. I will clarify to ensure. I’m not sure what gradation we will chose for the pool bottom, but I’m not interested in going much deeper than 5’.

@Hotch: On the out-ground pool I had installed a few years back, I had a cartridge filter that only needed cleaning once a season. Loved the ease of maintenance. Likely what I will get again. Thank you for the link to the pool forum. I will check out!

@SonVolt: I did not realize that SWGs were that much less work than traditional chlorine. With my past chlorine systems, I found I’d have to verify and adjust chemicals every few days. But if a SWG would restrict further restrict me having to check on levels, then I’d be all for it. 

@Mark_B_Good: Really appreciate the thoughtful and thorough response tailored to my circumstances. This is all very helpful. Pioneer Family Pools doesn’t seem to have a presence in my area. The closest looks like Kingston. Your feedback about pool material was exactly what I was looking for. I had concerns about fiberglass for this reason, and because I had also heard they could sometimes pop up from the ground over the course of the freeze/thaw cycle. The company that were most likely to go with uses a 30mm vinyl, which, based on my reading, looks like about the thickest that is offered anywhere. I totally agree on your depth considerations. I’ve got no use for anything deeper than about 5’. Sounds like you are a clear proponent of salt. I was originally turned off of the idea because of anticipated wear and tear on hardware and on a concrete or interlock border, as I had heard these could both be issues. I would expect that of course only certain dealers would carry the Zodiac DuaClear Salt System. I’m guessing I’d have to seek out one that did. Otherwise, I’m thinking it’s quite likely I’d be limited to a particular installer’s offerings. Thank you for the Jandy suggestion. From a quick Google search, it looks like it is only available through dealers. 

@fishlessman: Thanks for raising the diving board issue. The rock suggestion is a great one. 

@Ozzie_Isaac: Thank you for mentioning water hardness. I have no clue but will look into it and also ask the dealer.  

There has been a big surge in pool installations in my area - resulting from COVID. Prices have reportedly increased for a lot of pools and installation dates are being pushed further and further into the future as companies have the clients lining up. 

These are the specs of the quote from the company we are most inclined to go with to date. It has been, to me, the most attractive, but there are also some items for which I will require additional detail - namely, the pump and salt system. Not included in the below is the optional items we are considering, one of which is a customized pool safety cover (cost was $3500, I think, which seems high compared to the non-customized ones). The added bonus of this particular company is that they have an installation date in June of this year. Also seems like they haven’t raised rates considerably in the way that others have resulting from the surge in demand. The price is competitive and specs somewhat advantageous relative to others. It is from a small, family-operated company that has been in business since 2013 and gets good reviews. Prior to 2013, the owner worked for his father, who worked in the area installing pools for more than 30 years. I was originally skeptical when they had such early availability relative to everyone else, but I’ve learned that sadly, the owner’s parent succumbed to COVID, which caused the company to put all bookings on hold until now. I am already managing my expectations about the optimistic installation date, as I know it is very common for dates to get pushed back. All others companies I looked at would be fall 2021 at the very earliest and if not delayed. Despite the clear advantage of the earlier installation, I am discounting this factor for the purposes of my choice of company because I feel it would be short sighted to let impatience have bearing on such a purchase such as this. The below quote is for a 14x28 but I should add that I have the option of upgrading to a 15x30 for an additional $2500. The total land area I have to work with is about 38’ x 70’, but I live in an established area with power lines so it’s possible that there will be additional setback requirements that vary as a function of voltage. I don’t want to eat up too much useable green-space, so I will need to evaluate the two pool sizing options with setbacks in mind once I know what they are. Also, as evidenced by the quote, we were thinking of a flat back kidney shape, though are open to the pool company’s suggestions once they see our space. For reference, I’ve included photos of the back yard below. There is a side door from the house to the large side deck (which will one day be replaced with interlock). For reasons of proximity to the door, I think I’d opt to nestle the pool between the deck and garden, eliminating a section of the deck if I had to. Otherwise, I could locate the pool closer to the centre of the yard, but I feel that would really break up the available green-space. Given the space is wider than it is deep, the long end of the pool will follow the back tan fence. 

If anyone has comments on the above specs, please do chime in. 

Again, thanks to all. 

alaskanassasin

My neighbor installed a pool a few years ago that has a electric cover that eliminated the need for a fence. I think it will hold the weight of a person so that made his insurance company happy. I can ask him about it if your interested.

paqman

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

GrateEggspectations

alaskanassasin said:

My neighbor installed a pool a few years ago that has a electric cover that eliminated the need for a fence. I think it will hold the weight of a person so that made his insurance company happy. I can ask him about it if your interested.

Super kind offer. I would greatly appreciate that. Some of the fences on the property are in disrepair or don’t meet current code but are otherwise fine. Looking at other options would be really helpful. Thanks again. 

GrateEggspectations

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Thanks Paqman. 

We got a quote from Trévi. It was higher than that from the company that provided the quote above and had some other disadvantages - including being a smaller pool. Still a contender for sure. They did our last outground a few years back and for the money, it was great. 

U_tarded

https://www.lathampool.com/automatic-safety-covers/

This is who our cover is made by.  It’s really nice and gives you some passive solar heating. 

GrateEggspectations

@U_tarded: Thank you!

U_tarded

GrateEggspectations said:

@U_tarded: Thank you!

No problem, I just saw that link again that’s a pool company but we have the cover star cover.

Cornholio

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

Backwashing needs depend on the filter type as well. I know sand filters require frequent backwashing while cartridge filters just need to be cleaned every few months and no backwashing is necessary. This was news to me because when I was a pool cleaner (20yrs ago) we backwashed all pools every month but according to my local supply store many have gotten away from backwashing and most pools in our area have cartridge filters. 

Breaking down the filter and cleaning the cartridges is simple, I even patched a hole in one of them using PVC glue the last time I cleaned them which should hold up until I replace them all. 

This is what cartridge filters look like inside, just hose em off close it up and add DE.

Having a Baja step is nice, ours has an umbrella sleeve as well. Great for little ones. We are in the pool at least 3 times a week during the summer, many weeks it’s a daily thing. We might start on our outdoor kitchen area behind the deep end of the pool this summer, still brainstorming on that.

I’ll also add that having a pool robot cleaner cuts down on maintenance quite a bit. I brush and skim as needed but don’t have to get out the vacuum every week. I spend maybe 15 minutes a week doing pool maintenance, if that. It takes me about an hour to clean the filters and add DE every 3 months. 

kl8ton

https://lesliespool.com/leslies-perfect-weekly-triple-action-phosphate-remover-3l/13144.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA7YyCBhD_ARIsALkj54ozV7rfeNpRWXB8_NeK9PlMdFJoPZG6Zdu-h3P2lDygIAQc5G5TMQ4aAn9eEALw_wcB

Once your pool is up and running, use this.   I operate a 45,000 gallon commercial outdoor pool and this eliminates scrubbing the water line where scum used to form.  I use this and no scum line. 

Cornholio

kl8ton said:

https://lesliespool.com/leslies-perfect-weekly-triple-action-phosphate-remover-3l/13144.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA7YyCBhD_ARIsALkj54ozV7rfeNpRWXB8_NeK9PlMdFJoPZG6Zdu-h3P2lDygIAQc5G5TMQ4aAn9eEALw_wcB

Once your pool is up and running, use this.   I operate a 45,000 gallon we commercial outdoor pool and this eliminates scrubbing the water line where scum used to form.  I use this and no scum line. 

Good suggestion, I do a full treatment after cleaning the cartridges and then a cap full per week to maintain. 

It looks like Leslie’s uses this same brand that I get from Amazon (cheaper than the local supply store). 

GrateEggspectations

Cornholio said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

Backwashing needs depend on the filter type as well. I know sand filters require frequent backwashing while cartridge filters just need to be cleaned every few months and no backwashing is necessary. This was news to me because when I was a pool cleaner (20yrs ago) we backwashed all pools every month but according to my local supply store many have gotten away from backwashing and most pools in our area have cartridge filters. 

Breaking down the filter and cleaning the cartridges is simple, I even patched a hole in one of them using PVC glue the last time I cleaned them which should hold up until I replace them all. 

This is what cartridge filters look like inside, just hose em off close it up and add DE.

Having a Baja step is nice, ours has an umbrella sleeve as well. Great for little ones. We are in the pool at least 3 times a week during the summer, many weeks it’s a daily thing. We might start on our outdoor kitchen area behind the deep end of the pool this summer, still brainstorming on that.

I’ll also add that having a pool robot cleaner cuts down on maintenance quite a bit. I brush and skim as needed but don’t have to get out the vacuum every week. I spend maybe 15 minutes a week doing pool maintenance, if that. It takes me about an hour to clean the filters and add DE every 3 months. 

Beautiful setting right there. 

womaus

If you do get a pool and a poolboy make sure both you and your wife are comfortable with the services.

Legume

@Cornholio that looks like a DE filter with the baffles.  I had a cartridge filter for several years and ended up hating it, switched to sand.  This is what my cartridge filter looked like with the top off.  If your chemistry is off they clog up with calcification and you’re in for replacing them at $100-$150 a pop x4.  They do filter really well if you don’t f them up like I did.  Twice.

Cornholio

Legume said:

@Cornholio that looks like a DE filter with the baffles.  I had a cartridge filter for several years and ended up hating it, switched to sand.  This is what my cartridge filter looked like with the top off.  If your chemistry is off they clog up with calcification and you’re in for replacing them at $100-$150 a pop x4.  They do filter really well if you don’t f them up like I did.  Twice.

Yes, you are correct and I am old school with pool stuff. Most filters were sand and the DE grid type I have was a cartridge compared to those. I should have referred to it as a DE grid not cartridge. The only difficulty with the grids is aligning them back up when you remove them but I actually just spray mine down in place and open the backwash to flush the lower part ms out. 

SonVolt

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

True in theory, not reality. I've been backwashing salt water directly into my Bermuda yard for over a decade, and the previous owner before me,  and it's never so much as phased the grass. 

kl8ton

The pool I operate is really old school.  Two 24 inch ancient sand filters.  A bromine canister with a manual valve to control bromine feed rate. 3HP pump.  I just added a heater last year.  

Getting a fully automated salt system quoted.  Health Dept wants us to now have a flow rate of 110 gpm+  

With a fresh backwash and skimmers and main drain wide open I can hit 108 maybe.  

GrateEggspectations

kl8ton said:

The pool I operate is really old school.  Two 24 inch ancient sand filters.  A bromine canister with a manual valve to control bromine feed rate. 3HP pump.  I just added a heater last year.  

Getting a fully automated salt system quoted.  Health Dept wants us to now have a flow rate of 110 gpm+  

With a fresh backwash and skimmers and main drain wide open I can hit 108 maybe.  

3HP is powerful relative to what I’ve been looking at. What size pool you running there?

kl8ton

GrateEggspectations said:

kl8ton said:

The pool I operate is really old school.  Two 24 inch ancient sand filters.  A bromine canister with a manual valve to control bromine feed rate. 3HP pump.  I just added a heater last year.  

Getting a fully automated salt system quoted.  Health Dept wants us to now have a flow rate of 110 gpm+  

With a fresh backwash and skimmers and main drain wide open I can hit 108 maybe.  

3HP is powerful relative to what I’ve been looking at. What size pool you running there?

It's 45,000 gallons.  Pump required to run 24 hrs

kl8ton

Bromine level and ph to be tested 3 times per day as well as recording bather load, water and air temps,  etc.  I also have to bring water samples to health department once per month when in operation

alaskanassasin

GrateEggspectations

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Just curious... when we talked to Trévi, who called today to try to renew our interest, they were talking about new resin walls with liner - apparently their highest tier for in-grounds. What is this “concrete/foam/liner” of which you speak? If you have any details, I’d appreciate them. Trévi is sending us a few new quotes and we may stop into the store on Wednesday ahead of our Thursday appointment with the company that provided the quote I reference above. 

paqman

GrateEggspectations said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Just curious... when we talked to Trévi, who called today to try to renew our interest, they were talking about new resin walls with liner - apparently their highest tier for in-grounds. What is this “concrete/foam/liner” of which you speak? If you have any details, I’d appreciate them. Trévi is sending us a few new quotes and we may stop into the store on Wednesday ahead of our Thursday appointment with the company that provided the quote I reference above. 

It sounds like it.  A friend had it installed at the end of season 2 years ago.  We were only able to go once or twice last summer but it is very nice.  The surface is softish, it is supposed to help avoid kinks and abrasion of the liner and supposedly helps retain heat.  It is the nicest finish that I have seen on a pool.

What are the installation schedules looking like?

GrateEggspectations

paqman said:

GrateEggspectations said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Just curious... when we talked to Trévi, who called today to try to renew our interest, they were talking about new resin walls with liner - apparently their highest tier for in-grounds. What is this “concrete/foam/liner” of which you speak? If you have any details, I’d appreciate them. Trévi is sending us a few new quotes and we may stop into the store on Wednesday ahead of our Thursday appointment with the company that provided the quote I reference above. 

It sounds like it.  A friend had it installed at the end of season 2 years ago.  We were only able to go once or twice last summer but it is very nice.  The surface is softish, it is supposed to help avoid kinks and abrasion of the liner and supposedly helps retain heat.  It is the nicest finish that I have seen on a pool.

What are the installation schedules looking like?

We can apparently get a spot with Trévi in August. The other installer says second week of June. 

Mark_B_Good

@GrateEggspectations I have a concrete coping, made by permacon called Laguna. Had it on my last two salt pools, and there has been no issues. My current pool is about to see it's 4th season ... also it has a rounded bull nose, which is good on knees and legs when getting in and out of the pool ...



The vinyl liner is 30 mils (on that quote) 30 thousandths of an inch ... not 30 mm. The liner I have is 1.5mm thick, or 60 mils ... so it is double what was quoted.

If you find a pool installer that does offer Jandy and DuaClear ... which work together by the way ... then you are likely talking to a reputable pool dealer. 

By the way, you CANNOT just get any electrician if you get the Jandy system ... go with the guy the pool company recommends. You may pay an extra $300, but I have friends that tried to save a few $$ going with a connected electrician, who MADE A MESS of their control system ... in the end they had to call someone in that knew what they were doing, and it cost them $1500 more than the right guy doing it the first time around.

nolaegghead

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Nah.  3000 ppm salt is technically salt water, but it's orders of magnitude less than the 3-4% salt in the sea.  Probably more correct to say TDS.

paqman

nolaegghead said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Nah.  3000 ppm salt is technically salt water, but it's orders of magnitude less than the 3-4% salt in the sea.  Probably more correct to say TDS.

It does kill grass...

GrateEggspectations

paqman said:

nolaegghead said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

Nah.  3000 ppm salt is technically salt water, but it's orders of magnitude less than the 3-4% salt in the sea.  Probably more correct to say TDS.

It does kill grass...

You sure you’re not simply referencing having had your Trudeau cigarette skim across the water’s surface? 😂

paqman

😂

jtcBoynton

SonVolt said:

paqman said:

just keep in mind that salt water kills grass... no backwash in the backyard.

I have seen a couple of pools built by Trevi with their « new »  system concrete/foam/liner and they look great.  Can’t comment about longevity.

True in theory, not reality. I've been backwashing salt water directly into my Bermuda yard for over a decade, and the previous owner before me,  and it's never so much as phased the grass. 

Different grasses have differing tolerance for salt.  Bermuda is one of the more salt tolerant grasses.  Other varieties might have different results.