OT - Need some advice on inground pools

GrateEggspectations

Currently looking into an inground pool installation. I live in a climate (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) that gets both quite hot in the summer and very, very cold in the winter. 

Two big issues for consideration....

i) Pool material: fiberglass vs. steel walls/vinyl liner. 

ii) Chemicals: chlorine vs. salt.

I am obviously only looking to do this once and am someone who generally opts for quality and longevity in the products I purchase. My wife and I have spoken to many different pools companies, but because most of them only sell one material or system over another, the information received is often contradictory. (Edit: A lot of info online is also contradictory because it is put out by pool manufacturers and dealers.) We’ve received a few quotes for both pool materials.

Any input would be greatly appreciated - especially from someone who has experience with both materials and systems and who lives in a cold climate. 

Thank you in advance! 

lkapigian

One thing you did not mention is filtration, get a VS pump system....pools where I am are finite and plaster, mine is about 27 years old no real issue over the year

My pool is shallow on both ends, deeper in the middle 3.5 foot 5 foot 3.5....im glad I did that as it gets more use the a standard pool as a get older ....also get something smaller not biggee

Legume

I think with the fiberglass they bring a big crane in to set it and that’s pretty cool for all the neighborhood kids.

Hotch

Here in Texas gunite is 99% of the installs with a drop in fiberglass at probably 1%. Other than a few weeks ago to winter ours we have freeze protection in the controller. This just turns all the pumps and cleaners on when temps hit about 38f-40f.
Mine has a SWG (Salt Water Generator) with a variable speed pump. It works okay but with the hard water (400+) it takes some monitoring to keep the ph in check. I elected to go with the biggest cartridge filters I could get. As I has a DE setup before and it was a PITA!! Sand filters are ok at best but I did not want to deal with the back wash.
I had a vinyl liner above ground once, never again! Many punctures from horse play, pool toys and drunks. UV took it toll on the liner and replacement will always be in your future. 
I have been in a FG pool and it had very little traction. That was many years ago and that may have changed. FG pools are a breeze to keep in balanced.
The only issue with them around here is if the ground water builds up beneath them they may float.
I would suggest you join https://www.troublefreepool.com/forums/ 
Post your questions and discuss it with the members.
These guys are the best. Saved my bacon many times.
And good luck with whichever you choose!

Bellavista52

Ditto on troublefreepool.com!  It's the best source available.

SonVolt

I have an in-ground 20x40' liner pool and we love it.  No issues with punctures or fading until you hit the 10+ year mark,  which at that point they typically need to be replaced. Average cost is about $4-5k for a new liner.  If cost were no issue (and had I been the one who built the home) I would love a gunite pool, but there's a very steep increase in price. I believe my pool costs between $30-$40k whereas a gunite is closer to $80-$100k. Obviously the your decking material and sqr feet will play significant role in the overall expense. 

I'm not a fan of fiberglass pools unless space is a concern and you need a smaller pool. 

We also have a salt water generator and I would NEVER go back to manual chlorine.  SWG's take all the guesswork out of it and maintain the chemistry for you during the week (more or less).  Without it, it's daily testing and a roller coaster of chemistry. 

fishlessman

have never been in a saltwater pool, i believe they became popular down south first.  a question for those pool guys would be how long have their company been putting those in. most pools with diving boards, the deep end isnt long enough.  as per vinyl, you dont want to know how many patches to a vinyl liner pool happens when a glass table top explodes into the pool

Mark_B_Good

I'm on my 5th swimming pool (I built them all new at places we owned). 

Last two in Canada (Toronto). Both built by Pioneer Family Pools, who I highly recommend ... they absolutely offer the best package at reasonable prices. By best package I mean the hardware they offer (see my points below about the salt system and iAqualink).

Vinyl all the way ... fibreglass can still crack if there's any settlement ... happened to a friend of mine two years ago, North of Toronto.  Bottom cracked, contractor gave him the run around ... my friend lost big time ... had to replace the entire shell ... was very difficult to patch up ... he tried over two years before he threw in the towel. Forget about gunite in our climate ... any movement from frost and you are done. Concrete/gunite pools are old school up here ... I don't think anyone gets them anymore for Canadian climate.

Vinyl is the most forgiving you can get, when it comes to movement (settlement or frost). Even if you cut the liner, you can underwater glue patches ... you don't even need to empty the pool. The vinyl liner is thick ... it's about using a reputable pool company that gives you a good liner ... then you're good for 10 years, and relining takes one day to do ... when the time comes. Remember, even gunite has to be redone every once in a while ... and that is costly and a mess (my first three pools in South Africa were gunite ... so I know this inside out).  Vinyl is also more/most forgiving when it comes to water chemistry (if it is off like low pH) ... gunite is not, fibreglass is a bit better, but not perfect.

Depth ... some people like 8' deep pools to dive into ... I have someone I like to call a friend now, my pool sales guy.  He said in the 40s years I've been doing this, the 5' deep across the entire pool, except for a 3' smaller shallow area for the kids at the steps is the best use of real-estate. You can still swim no problem, and if you get tire you can STAND UP ... it leads to MANY more people in the pool using the entire area. The 8' depth areas are fun for 5 minutes, but then people get tire and go to the walls of the pools, so often the entire middle is empty of people after the first few dives.

SALT 100% ... I put chemicals in my pool twice per year ... once in Spring when we open things up ... and then I find in August after enough rain, ONCE I have to add some pH down ... not after every rain, just ONCE after enough rain has fallen over several days.  I do not have to do a thing!  Now, be careful, there are crappy salt systems out there.  I have the Zodiac DuaClear Salt System (see below) ... it has ZERO issues, have had it on last two pools, and it works like a beast!  I would advise to stick with this product, I've heard others don't work and are a pain in the but. You want worry-free equipment ... 



Do yourself a favor and get a Jandy, iAqualink system ... it will run itself, comes with protection measures for heaters, links to the salt system, lights, etc.  You can program everything on this ... when the pump comes on, when the lights turn on and off, even deck jets (sprays/fountains) turning on and off, all automatically ... heck it even comes with spare outputs, so I have my change room lights turning on and off at certain times via the built in programmable features.

Hook_emHornsfan_74

We have a gunite pool.  Haven't had any issues with it at all.  Our water is so crappy down here we can't use the salt water system.  But honestly, once I get my chemicals set and chlorine where I want it, I usually don't have to do much.  Just normally keep the chlorine on the high side since it gets so hot in the summer.  

fishlessman

with the diving boards, insurance companies are dropping customers with them around me. people are installing a  step platform to jump off of instead of the boards because of this. im probably one of the few that hates the shallow end and havent been in one for maybe 25 years

some are more elaborate, wide enough for table, chairs etc

Ozzie_Isaac

Hook_emHornsfan_74 said:

We have a gunite pool.  Haven't had any issues with it at all.  Our water is so crappy down here we can't use the salt water system.  But honestly, once I get my chemicals set and chlorine where I want it, I usually don't have to do much.  Just normally keep the chlorine on the high side since it gets so hot in the summer.  

Troublefreepools as stated above is an amazing resource.  The regular are legit.

I had a gunite pool and a salt water system.  My water has such high calcium that it was a constant battle.  In 5 years I replaced the salt cell twice.  I was very particular about my levels and it was a constant headache.  In the summer I added liquid chlorine twice a week and cleaned my salt cell every month.  I would talk to a reputable pool company in your area and see what they recommend.  If you go salt, pick high quality hardware with a good warranty.  My next pool will probably be an auto-liquid chlorine system.

Legume

fishlessman said:

with the diving boards, insurance companies are dropping customers with them around me. people are installing a  step platform to jump off of instead of the boards because of this. im probably one of the few that hates the shallow end and havent been in one for maybe 25 years

some are more elaborate, wide enough for table, chairs etc

We had some larger rocks around the pool for the kids and the spa attached to the pool was elevated so kids would jump off of that

fishlessman

Legume said:

fishlessman said:

with the diving boards, insurance companies are dropping customers with them around me. people are installing a  step platform to jump off of instead of the boards because of this. im probably one of the few that hates the shallow end and havent been in one for maybe 25 years

some are more elaborate, wide enough for table, chairs etc

We had some larger rocks around the pool for the kids and the spa attached to the pool was elevated so kids would jump off of that

ive seen some really nice ones with water fountain falls mounted both sides of the jump off point. insurance companies here are really going after the diving boards, ive had people want me to build big aluminum stands but i steer them towards the granite stone shop down the street, they run down there after i give them the price anyways

caliking

I don't have much to offer re: pool building, since our pool was in place when we bought the house.

As mentioned above, troublefreepool.com is a fantastic resource. VERY helpful, and knowledgeable folks there. Its the eggheadforum of pool bidness. 

I vote for a salt water pool. Mine is chlorine, and easy to take care of (I don't kvetch about numbers/levels/etc.), but I love the feel of a salt water pool.

Lastly, after its built, don't spend $$ on pool guys. It's not terribly hard to service your pool gear yourself. 

fishlessman

caliking said:

I don't have much to offer re: pool building, since our pool was in place when we bought the house.

As mentioned above, troublefreepool.com is a fantastic resource. VERY helpful, and knowledgeable folks there. Its the eggheadforum of pool bidness. 

I vote for a salt water pool. Mine is chlorine, and easy to take care of (I don't kvetch about numbers/levels/etc.), but I love the feel of a salt water pool.

Lastly, after its built, don't spend $$ on pool guys. It's not terribly hard to service your pool gear yourself. 

dont spend dollars on pool guys

SonVolt

unless your wife's lonely

Mark_B_Good

Guys, all of you that have gunite pools, you're all down south right? We have to be mindful of the weather up here ... they stopped doing concrete pools up here in Canada like 30 years ago when fibreglass became inexpensive, and vinyl lined pools were invented.  We have frost to deal with, that moves everything by inches each winter ... can't stop that force ... so you need to have some give in these pool systems. With concrete, one millimeter of movement, and you're done.

If I was in Florida, I'd probably have a gunite pool.

Ozzie_Isaac

Mark_B_Good said:

Guys, all of you that have gunite pools, you're all down south right? We have to be mindful of the weather up here ... they stopped doing concrete pools up here in Canada like 30 years ago when fibreglass became inexpensive, and vinyl lined pools were invented.  We have frost to deal with, that moves everything by inches each winter ... can't stop that force ... so you need to have some give in these pool systems. With concrete, one millimeter of movement, and you're done.

If I was in Florida, I'd probably have a gunite pool.

We have cold weather too.  It was 33 deg F one night a few weeks ago.

My only real advice is measure your water hardness prior to choosing a system.  High calcium content plays havoc with salt water systems.  Nothing you can do besides use bottled water or rent a giant filtration system to lower your calcium level to a point it will play nice with the salt cell.

Salt systems are the bees knees if your base water chemistry is good.

Canugghead

.

Mark_B_Good

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Mark_B_Good said:

Guys, all of you that have gunite pools, you're all down south right? We have to be mindful of the weather up here ... they stopped doing concrete pools up here in Canada like 30 years ago when fibreglass became inexpensive, and vinyl lined pools were invented.  We have frost to deal with, that moves everything by inches each winter ... can't stop that force ... so you need to have some give in these pool systems. With concrete, one millimeter of movement, and you're done.

If I was in Florida, I'd probably have a gunite pool.

We have cold weather too.  It was 33 deg F one night a few weeks ago.

My only real advice is measure your water hardness prior to choosing a system.  High calcium content plays havoc with salt water systems.  Nothing you can do besides use bottled water or rent a giant filtration system to lower your calcium level to a point it will play nice with the salt cell.

Salt systems are the bees knees if your base water chemistry is good.

Ozzie, that's not even freezing temperatures. A couple of we were around 0F. Once frost sets in, it lifts everything up ... concrete pools aren't forgiving to that. 

I agree about the high calcium ... no doubt that will scale the electrodes and cause big issues.

Ozzie_Isaac

Mark_B_Good said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Mark_B_Good said:

Guys, all of you that have gunite pools, you're all down south right? We have to be mindful of the weather up here ... they stopped doing concrete pools up here in Canada like 30 years ago when fibreglass became inexpensive, and vinyl lined pools were invented.  We have frost to deal with, that moves everything by inches each winter ... can't stop that force ... so you need to have some give in these pool systems. With concrete, one millimeter of movement, and you're done.

If I was in Florida, I'd probably have a gunite pool.

We have cold weather too.  It was 33 deg F one night a few weeks ago.

My only real advice is measure your water hardness prior to choosing a system.  High calcium content plays havoc with salt water systems.  Nothing you can do besides use bottled water or rent a giant filtration system to lower your calcium level to a point it will play nice with the salt cell.

Salt systems are the bees knees if your base water chemistry is good.

Ozzie, that's not even freezing temperatures. A couple of we were around 0F. Once frost sets in, it lifts everything up ... concrete pools aren't forgiving to that. 

I agree about the high calcium ... no doubt that will scale the electrodes and cause big issues.

Water pipes in my town have a minimum 12" depth requirement.  Not for frost, but to protect them from the gardener.  Our frost line is 0".

lousubcap

@Ozzie_Isaac - just make sure you get all the utility clearances before you start to install your home high voltage charging station for that new ride.  

alaskanassasin

I do miss a good frost heave 

GrateEggspectations

fishlessman said:

caliking said:

I don't have much to offer re: pool building, since our pool was in place when we bought the house.

As mentioned above, troublefreepool.com is a fantastic resource. VERY helpful, and knowledgeable folks there. Its the eggheadforum of pool bidness. 

I vote for a salt water pool. Mine is chlorine, and easy to take care of (I don't kvetch about numbers/levels/etc.), but I love the feel of a salt water pool.

Lastly, after its built, don't spend $$ on pool guys. It's not terribly hard to service your pool gear yourself. 

dont spend dollars on pool guys

*now online ordering this pool-cleaning outfit for my wife*

GrateEggspectations

A sincere thanks to all who chimed in here. This place is such a great resource and I just knew that some of you would answer my call. Truly appreciate it. 

nolaegghead

If you do hire a "pool-boy", just make sure he looks like Quasimodo and not Brad Pitt.

GrateEggspectations

nolaegghead said:

If you do hire a "pool-boy", just make sure he looks like Quasimodo and not Brad Pitt.

I’ve previously owned two above grounds, so I’m used to “pool boy” duties. Let’s hope my wife thinks I’m up to the job. 

JethroBodeen

Just dont do it. If I could put mine on Craigslist, i would.

If you do, your selection of contractor will be the very next on your list that you hate.

Absolutely get the VS pump and salt system. I would also recommend the DE filter instead of all the other bs.

GrateEggspectations

JethroBodeen said:

Just dont do it. If I could put mine on Craigslist, i would.

How so? I’ve owned two pools before and have no regrets. What was the problem?

Cornholio

I have no experience with anything but chlorine, plaster in ground pools so take my comments with a grain of salt. I was a pool cleaner/maintenance guy for ~5yrs during high school/college and currently do all of the upkeep on our pool.

If you go chlorine there really is little effort that goes into keeping things balanced, if you can cook on an egg you can maintain a pool no problem. This might be different with the type of pool you are looking at though. I’ve always found it easier to take care of a 20,000 gallon pool than a small spa/jacuzzi. 

U_tarded

Fiberglass here, 3 years ago.  In-laws from the same installer and manufacturer 20 years.  Install is everything compaction of the sand around the shell is key and good cement work on the deck for the comping.  You are limited on shapes and size with fiberglass but there are lots of options.  Don’t think I’ve ever seen a vinyl liner here.  

Salt water generator is easy and one less chemical to keep around.  

Get a cover they are a life saver ours is electric and rolls up into the ground keeps things so much cleaner and acts as a solar heater.  

Contractors were hard to deal with (always delayed making excuses).  But I would do it again. 

Only photos on my phone