OT - Finishing a Basement

QDude

I am going to finish our basement - about 1400 square feet.  I plan to frame it, do the electrical, and the plumbing work myself.  I will hire out the drywall installation and taping as I don't know if I can physically do that work anymore.

For those of you who have undertaken this kind of project, do you have any advice?  Thanks for anything you have to offer.

RRP

What about building codes? Do you need approval? Is your basement below grade? Any dampness issues evident? Do you live where radon issues are common? Do you have at least one sump pump? Is your furnace, hwh, a/c etc located down there? You never mentioned ductwork or is that already in place? What are your plans for the floor? Tile on the concrete floor, or raised floor? Ceiling height going to be an issue if a raised floor? 

nolaegghead

Your basement is only 50 square feet smaller than my house.

My advice is whatever you do, make sure it doesn't start fires or leak water.

QDude

RRP said:

What about building codes? Do you need approval? Is your basement below grade? Any dampness issues evident? Do you live where radon issues are common? Do you have at least one sump pump? Is your furnace, hwh, a/c etc located down there? You never mentioned ductwork or is that already in place? What are your plans for the floor? Tile on the concrete floor, or raised floor? Ceiling height going to be an issue if a raised floor? 

Good questions Ron.  Yes I will have to pull a permit for the job.  The basement is below grade but there are no dampness issues to date - been in the house for 2 years now.  Radon can be an issue and the house is plumbed for radon extraction.  There is a pit for a sump pump.  The furnace is also in the basement with the water heater.  There is ductwork in the basement but I will need to add a couple of vents for the bedrooms.  Flooring will likely be a combination of carpet and engineered flooring but not raised.  The basement has 9' ceilings but I will have to do a number of dropdowns for ductwork and other impediments.

poster

Build the bar last. I made mine first and it slowed the rest of the project down.

poster

Also do you have a door between the up and downstairs? and a single zone furnace? I did so i placed a fan in the wall to push or pull air between floors and also cut a 1.5" gap under the entrance door to help the air mix which is on the opposite end of the house as the fan. This helped me regulate the temperatures as i had a 10 degree difference from upstairs to down in the summer. My thermostat is upstairs and the AC was working to cool the upstairs when it was not needed downstairs. Mixing the air let my AC run less and i didn't need a sweater to sit in the basement. The furnace fan was not enough

northGAcock

I have finished two in my much younger years. I approached them one room at a time, and found that to be more manageable. You have a big project ahead of you. Sizing HVAC and insuring your wiring is done correctly are the big issues. I ran all of my wire and rough in. I had a professional come connect it to the panel and install the switches and receptacles. You can find folks that do it by code, and yet don't charge you street rates on weekends and evenings. Your safety is important. By the way, I did my own sheetrock, taping and mudding. That is the worst.

nolaegghead

poster said:

Also do you have a door between the up and downstairs? and a single zone furnace? I did so i placed a fan in the wall to push or pull air between floors and also cut a 1.5" gap under the entrance door to help the air mix which is on the opposite end of the house as the fan. This helped me regulate the temperatures as i had a 10 degree difference from upstairs to down in the summer. My thermostat is upstairs and the AC was working to cool the upstairs when it was not needed downstairs. Mixing the air let my AC run less and i didn't need a sweater to sit in the basement. The furnace fan was not enough

HVAC balancing is important for efficiency and comfort.   Zone control is something to deal with factors such as the basement is influenced by the earth around it and your top floor by the sun and outside temps.

QDude

poster said:

Also do you have a door between the up and downstairs? and a single zone furnace? I did so i placed a fan in the wall to push or pull air between floors and also cut a 1.5" gap under the entrance door to help the air mix which is on the opposite end of the house as the fan. This helped me regulate the temperatures as i had a 10 degree difference from upstairs to down in the summer. My thermostat is upstairs and the AC was working to cool the upstairs when it was not needed downstairs. Mixing the air let my AC run less and i didn't need a sweater to sit in the basement. The furnace fan was not enough

Yes there is a door leading from the basement to the upstairs.  It is a single zone furnace.  Thank you for the advice.

nolaegghead

Larry is the kung-fu zen-master with HVAC @lkapigian

dbCooper

Nothing specifically to recommend, just a general guideline from my experiences... double your money estimate, triple your "work time" estimate.

This can apply equally well to automobile, boat and dating projects.

Gamecockeggman

With bedrooms you will most like likely need an escape route.  Most of the time this is accomplished via a large window that can be reached without a ladder.  You will need to check your local codes for guidance.  That can get expensive quick not planned in the beginning 

lkapigian

Since all below grade , and under first, there is no real load, ventilation and proper combustion makeup air would be my #1 concern ...tappimg off and adding vents from existing is certainly doable but you may overheat, overcool....if you can email me a drawing and zip code I can do a manual I load calc and get you the needed airflows 

QDude

Gamecockeggman said:

With bedrooms you will most like likely need an escape route.  Most of the time this is accomplished via a large window that can be reached without a ladder.  You will need to check your local codes for guidance.  That can get expensive quick not planned in the beginning 

The two bedrooms have 5x5 egress windows.

QDude

dbCooper said:

Nothing specifically to recommend, just a general guideline from my experiences... double your money estimate, triple your "work time" estimate.

This can apply equally well to automobile, boat and dating projects.

dbCooper said:

Nothing specifically to recommend, just a general guideline from my experiences... double your money estimate, triple your "work time" estimate.

This can apply equally well to automobile, boat and dating projects.

I understand that except I will probably have to use a factor of 5 for the time part.  I built a "simple"  BBQ island a feew years ago - figured it would take 3 weeks.  It was done about 4 months later.  I have a tendency to over-design and overthink which slows me down tremendously.

alaskanassasin

Are you using insulation or vapor barrier on the foundation walls? 

QDude

alaskanassasin said:

Are you using insulation or vapor barrier on the foundation walls? 

There is a white wall blanket attached to the exterior walls.  I will leave it in place.  I'm not sure if I will need to put additional insulation in the 2x4 walls or not.

stlcharcoal

Insulate the sill plates, don't forget the fire block, consider Rockwool insulation about the ceiling of bed or media rooms.

I did a drop ceiling with 2x2 LED light panels on a dimmer when they just came out.....bunch of them.  Now you can get them multicolored via remote.  Make it look like a disco floor on the ceiling!!!!

I looked into heating the floor....way too expensive, and so was a separate furnace.  Went with those little between the studs squirrel cage electric heaters and a electic radiator looking thing in the bedroom that is silent.  For as little as we use it, that was the best way to heat 1000 sqft just enough to take the edge off.  I did run ducting to all the rooms with dampers--just enough to circulate a little air for humidity and filtration.

QDude

stlcharcoal said:

Insulate the sill plates, don't forget the fire block, consider Rockwool insulation about the ceiling of bed or media rooms.

I did a drop ceiling with 2x2 LED light panels on a dimmer when they just came out.....bunch of them.  Now you can get them multicolored via remote.  Make it look like a disco floor on the ceiling!!!!

I looked into heating the floor....way too expensive, and so was a separate furnace.  Went with those little between the studs squirrel cage electric heaters and a electic radiator looking thing in the bedroom that is silent.  For as little as we use it, that was the best way to heat 1000 sqft just enough to take the edge off.  I did run ducting to all the rooms with dampers--just enough to circulate a little air for humidity and filtration.

Due to the expansive soils in Colorado, we have to do floating walls.  The sill plate is powder nailed into the concrete and the wall framework sits a couple of inches above the sill plate.  A large spike attaches the wall frame to the  sill plate.  If the foundation heaves a little, the sill plate slides up the spike but the wall itself doesn't move or crack.  It is a pain in the butt to build.

RRP

QDude said:

Due to the expansive soils in Colorado, we have to do floating walls.  The sill plate is powder nailed into the concrete and the wall framework sits a couple of inches above the sill plate.  A large spike attaches the wall frame to the  sill plate.  If the foundation heaves a little, the sill plate slides up the spike but the wall itself doesn't move or crack.  It is a pain in the butt to build.

I like all THAT - I guess as an old fart I should have asked a MORE important question way back! After 40 years in our "new Home" we thought we AND our highly reputatble contractor had thought of "everything". HAR HAR HAR

How long do you plan to live there? Considering re-sale value even right now is NOT a waste of time nor money!

QDude

RRP said:

QDude said:

Due to the expansive soils in Colorado, we have to do floating walls.  The sill plate is powder nailed into the concrete and the wall framework sits a couple of inches above the sill plate.  A large spike attaches the wall frame to the  sill plate.  If the foundation heaves a little, the sill plate slides up the spike but the wall itself doesn't move or crack.  It is a pain in the butt to build.

I like all THAT - I guess as an old fart I should have asked a MORE important question way back! After 40 years in our "new Home" we thought we AND our highly reputatble contractor had thought of "everything". HAR HAR HAR

How long do you plan to live there? Considering re-sale value even right now is NOT a waste of time nor money!

In theory, this is our last house!  We should have done this in the past but never had the money.

SaltySam

I did my basement last winter.  I hired out the framing, drywall, flooring and plumbing.  I did the design, electrical (homeruns only and hired out the breaker box connections), HVAC, cabinetry, and overall project management. It was an eye opener. 

Here’s what I learned:

Electrical codes updated in our area about six years ago.  I got to rewire EVERY outlet with pigtails. Check city codes before you start work. 

Get on the books now for a drywaller.  Legitimate businesses are booked solid in our area.  If you’re not on a time crunch, drywall crews will work off the clock in the evenings, typically for MUCH cheaper.   

Lumber prices are outrageous right now.  If you haven’t priced out studs, brace yourself.  

Building inspectors are on your team.  They exist to keep you and your family safe.  They are humans, too.  I had one guy that came in, clearly with a chip on his shoulder because I was trying to do my own work.  I was friendly, chatted him up and didn’t raise hell when he failed me the first time.  He actually called the next day and told me an easy workaround to get up to code. We then talked about our dogs for twenty minutes. Don’t hide anything, and don’t shortcut anything.  

Take tons of pictures in all phases of construction. More than you think you’ll need. Take video as well, with audio explaining the work.  It feels like overkill but if you ever need to know what’s under the walls, it is so helpful.  Drywallers sheet rocked over two outlets and the port I had for my center channel speaker wire.  I didn’t even notice until after mudding and taping.  Because of the pictures and standard outlet hanging height, I was able to make precise cuts where the boxes were. 

Whatever you think your timeline is, multiply it by 1.5.  

You will go to the hardware store EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.  Sometimes twice.  I live four minutes from a Menards and they all know me now.  

Buy the big container of wire nuts

Every new project requires a new tool.  My wife didn’t realize that’s not a real law, but I sold it to her somehow.

It was six months of frustration, hard work, timeline shifts, curveballs, and lost weekends.  But, we added about 850 sqft for about 22K, and brought the value of the home up by roughly 45K.  Tons of storage, a full kitchen, full bath, and a fantastic place to watch movies and football games.  

It’s one thing to know how my home is put together.  But to say “I built this” is a level of satisfaction I’d never felt.  I’m proud to have tackled it.  I also promised my wife I’d never do it again.  

By the way, the floor is epoxied concrete.  I didn’t do it, but it looks so cool.  

Best of luck! You’re in for a fun ride!

HeavyG

Solid post @SaltySam and nice work!

"Every new project requires a new tool.  My wife didn’t realize that’s not a real law, but I sold it to her somehow."

I actually inserted that into our prenup.

QDude

SaltySam said:

I did my basement last winter.  I hired out the framing, drywall, flooring and plumbing.  I did the design, electrical (homeruns only and hired out the breaker box connections), HVAC, cabinetry, and overall project management. It was an eye opener. 

Here’s what I learned:

Electrical codes updated in our area about six years ago.  I got to rewire EVERY outlet with pigtails. Check city codes before you start work. 

Get on the books now for a drywaller.  Legitimate businesses are booked solid in our area.  If you’re not on a time crunch, drywall crews will work off the clock in the evenings, typically for MUCH cheaper.   

Lumber prices are outrageous right now.  If you haven’t priced out studs, brace yourself.  

Building inspectors are on your team.  They exist to keep you and your family safe.  They are humans, too.  I had one guy that came in, clearly with a chip on his shoulder because I was trying to do my own work.  I was friendly, chatted him up and didn’t raise hell when he failed me the first time.  He actually called the next day and told me an easy workaround to get up to code. We then talked about our dogs for twenty minutes. Don’t hide anything, and don’t shortcut anything.  

Take tons of pictures in all phases of construction. More than you think you’ll need. Take video as well, with audio explaining the work.  It feels like overkill but if you ever need to know what’s under the walls, it is so helpful.  Drywallers sheet rocked over two outlets and the port I had for my center channel speaker wire.  I didn’t even notice until after mudding and taping.  Because of the pictures and standard outlet hanging height, I was able to make precise cuts where the boxes were. 

Whatever you think your timeline is, multiply it by 1.5.  

You will go to the hardware store EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.  Sometimes twice.  I live four minutes from a Menards and they all know me now.  

Buy the big container of wire nuts

Every new project requires a new tool.  My wife didn’t realize that’s not a real law, but I sold it to her somehow.

It was six months of frustration, hard work, timeline shifts, curveballs, and lost weekends.  But, we added about 850 sqft for about 22K, and brought the value of the home up by roughly 45K.  Tons of storage, a full kitchen, full bath, and a fantastic place to watch movies and football games.  

It’s one thing to know how my home is put together.  But to say “I built this” is a level of satisfaction I’d never felt.  I’m proud to have tackled it.  I also promised my wife I’d never do it again.  

By the way, the floor is epoxied concrete.  I didn’t do it, but it looks so cool.  

Best of luck! You’re in for a fun ride!

Your finished project looks great!  The epoxied floor is awesome.

I pulled an electrical permit last year for installing a subpanel and 220V circuits in my garage.  I also sheetrocked and insulated the garage section that wasn't done - only 15 sheets and that's where I learned that I sucked at taping.  I will definitely let the pros do the rock.

My neighbor has warned me about lumber prices.  I guess that I will just have to bite the bullet on this.

Thanks for the great writeup.

ColbyLang

I’m so envious of you basement boys. The things I could do with the additional space....

Lowcountrygamecock

SaltySam said:

I did my basement last winter.  I hired out the framing, drywall, flooring and plumbing.  I did the design, electrical (homeruns only and hired out the breaker box connections), HVAC, cabinetry, and overall project management. It was an eye opener. 

Here’s what I learned:

Electrical codes updated in our area about six years ago.  I got to rewire EVERY outlet with pigtails. Check city codes before you start work. 

Get on the books now for a drywaller.  Legitimate businesses are booked solid in our area.  If you’re not on a time crunch, drywall crews will work off the clock in the evenings, typically for MUCH cheaper.   

Lumber prices are outrageous right now.  If you haven’t priced out studs, brace yourself.  

Building inspectors are on your team.  They exist to keep you and your family safe.  They are humans, too.  I had one guy that came in, clearly with a chip on his shoulder because I was trying to do my own work.  I was friendly, chatted him up and didn’t raise hell when he failed me the first time.  He actually called the next day and told me an easy workaround to get up to code. We then talked about our dogs for twenty minutes. Don’t hide anything, and don’t shortcut anything.  

Take tons of pictures in all phases of construction. More than you think you’ll need. Take video as well, with audio explaining the work.  It feels like overkill but if you ever need to know what’s under the walls, it is so helpful.  Drywallers sheet rocked over two outlets and the port I had for my center channel speaker wire.  I didn’t even notice until after mudding and taping.  Because of the pictures and standard outlet hanging height, I was able to make precise cuts where the boxes were. 

Whatever you think your timeline is, multiply it by 1.5.  

You will go to the hardware store EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.  Sometimes twice.  I live four minutes from a Menards and they all know me now.  

Buy the big container of wire nuts

Every new project requires a new tool.  My wife didn’t realize that’s not a real law, but I sold it to her somehow.

It was six months of frustration, hard work, timeline shifts, curveballs, and lost weekends.  But, we added about 850 sqft for about 22K, and brought the value of the home up by roughly 45K.  Tons of storage, a full kitchen, full bath, and a fantastic place to watch movies and football games.  

It’s one thing to know how my home is put together.  But to say “I built this” is a level of satisfaction I’d never felt.  I’m proud to have tackled it.  I also promised my wife I’d never do it again.  

By the way, the floor is epoxied concrete.  I didn’t do it, but it looks so cool.  

Best of luck! You’re in for a fun ride!

Work looks great!  I love doing my own projects. If you don’t mind me asking, where did you get the backsplash tile?  That’s exactly what we’re looking for and I can’t find the right size/color anywhere. 

FarmingPhD

We finished ours starting in December 2017 and finished it in June 2019, we had a baby at the start and slowed things down a bit.  We live in central Iowa and our basement had poly backed fiberglass against the basement walls.  I decided to pull it down and we studded with ~1” gap off the wall (varies because the concrete wall was not straight), and then did open cell spray foam.  I also had them do the rim joist all the way around the house and made a big difference in air leakage in the unfinished part of the basement. 

Fire stop- I’m assuming your codes will require this.  Get the info for this before you start framing as some parts of this are easier to do as part of the framing process rather than after.  Primary rules, no air channels from vertical walls into overhead air space and there are requirements on the type/size requirements of materials used.  Also, no more than 12’ of unimpeded horizontal air travel in a wall.  This mostly matters for walls against the foundation wall as you have to get a seal against the concrete with something like packed fiberglass insulation.  A lot of detail here as I had to burn a few days getting this done later when I could have done it along the way much easier. 

I did everything but the spray foam and the drywall and would have no issues doing it again and would definitely be easier the second time.  Make a good plan up front and it also makes it go faster so you aren’t trying to figure it out on the fly.  Putting more detail into permits than most folks actually helped as I had rough blueprints for everything.  

Agree with the tool statement- my wife is also rather supportive of tool purchases as I scrutinize myself harder than anyone about spending money.  

Best of luck and hope it goes faster than mine.

QDude

FarmingPhD said:

We finished ours starting in December 2017 and finished it in June 2019, we had a baby at the start and slowed things down a bit.  We live in central Iowa and our basement had poly backed fiberglass against the basement walls.  I decided to pull it down and we studded with ~1” gap off the wall (varies because the concrete wall was not straight), and then did open cell spray foam.  I also had them do the rim joist all the way around the house and made a big difference in air leakage in the unfinished part of the basement. 

Fire stop- I’m assuming your codes will require this.  Get the info for this before you start framing as some parts of this are easier to do as part of the framing process rather than after.  Primary rules, no air channels from vertical walls into overhead air space and there are requirements on the type/size requirements of materials used.  Also, no more than 12’ of unimpeded horizontal air travel in a wall.  This mostly matters for walls against the foundation wall as you have to get a seal against the concrete with something like packed fiberglass insulation.  A lot of detail here as I had to burn a few days getting this done later when I could have done it along the way much easier. 

I did everything but the spray foam and the drywall and would have no issues doing it again and would definitely be easier the second time.  Make a good plan up front and it also makes it go faster so you aren’t trying to figure it out on the fly.  Putting more detail into permits than most folks actually helped as I had rough blueprints for everything.  

Agree with the tool statement- my wife is also rather supportive of tool purchases as I scrutinize myself harder than anyone about spending money.  

Best of luck and hope it goes faster than mine.

Where in Iowa are you?  I grew up in CR and went to ISU.  Thanks for the advice.  Was the spray insulation put in after the electrical and plumbing work?  I assume so.  Was it a lot more expensive than doing the regular batts?

FarmingPhD

QDude said:

FarmingPhD said:

We finished ours starting in December 2017 and finished it in June 2019, we had a baby at the start and slowed things down a bit.  We live in central Iowa and our basement had poly backed fiberglass against the basement walls.  I decided to pull it down and we studded with ~1” gap off the wall (varies because the concrete wall was not straight), and then did open cell spray foam.  I also had them do the rim joist all the way around the house and made a big difference in air leakage in the unfinished part of the basement. 

Fire stop- I’m assuming your codes will require this.  Get the info for this before you start framing as some parts of this are easier to do as part of the framing process rather than after.  Primary rules, no air channels from vertical walls into overhead air space and there are requirements on the type/size requirements of materials used.  Also, no more than 12’ of unimpeded horizontal air travel in a wall.  This mostly matters for walls against the foundation wall as you have to get a seal against the concrete with something like packed fiberglass insulation.  A lot of detail here as I had to burn a few days getting this done later when I could have done it along the way much easier. 

I did everything but the spray foam and the drywall and would have no issues doing it again and would definitely be easier the second time.  Make a good plan up front and it also makes it go faster so you aren’t trying to figure it out on the fly.  Putting more detail into permits than most folks actually helped as I had rough blueprints for everything.  

Agree with the tool statement- my wife is also rather supportive of tool purchases as I scrutinize myself harder than anyone about spending money.  

Best of luck and hope it goes faster than mine.

Where in Iowa are you?  I grew up in CR and went to ISU.  Thanks for the advice.  Was the spray insulation put in after the electrical and plumbing work?  I assume so.  Was it a lot more expensive than doing the regular batts?

Spray insulation went in after all rough in’s were done and fire stop.  Basically all rough in inspections were done before spray foam.  It was more expensive than batt insulation for sure.  It was roughly $1700 to do ~800 sq ft of 2x4 wall and maybe 200’ of rim joist.  It was reasonable cost for spray foam and was a decision on my part for quality along with sealing up my rim joist.  Corners of my house were extremely cold in the winter and the rim joist foam helped bring those use probably 5deg on room temps.

SaltySam

@Lowcountrygamecock

Pictures of EVERYTHING!

SaltySam

@Lowcountrygamecock,

Sorry for the embedded quote windows.  I can’t figure out how to clear it out once I start to edit.  

We got it from the Tile Shop in Omaha.  We also used bright white perma color select grout from laticrete. 

Hopefully the part number helps.  We love the backsplash. I contracted that out too, which is why it looks good!