BlueStar

Tspud1

Botch said:

womaus said:

And going further:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9WDJaB6_9M

This is from a few years ago...they say 22K BTU. I believe they've got models that offer 25K.

 

 Well, I don't think I'll need the exhaust hood, as I don't plan on dumping almost a pint of cooking oil into my wok!    

You might want to discuss this with home insurance. When we sell a commercial range that goes in a house, they almost always ask for a hood.

They are proud of those hoods. The CFM is calculated by total BTU's and the high BTU burners maybe putting out more than just cooking odors.

womaus

Came by this thread today, hadn't looked for a spell.
We've been using the range and oven for some time now. With the current shutdown of pretty much all going out to eat it's been getting a lot of use.
My wife is adjusting well going from an electric oven to the gas...and I've actually heard her sing the praises of the gas top burners to others. 
This unit is a pleasure to own. It's easy enough to clean, usually once a week or at the least every two weeks. I prefer it to look like it's in use, I'm in many houses with high end kitchens that obviously have never been in operation.

But...the best reason I can give for spending >%5K on one of these is the results you can achieve on your carbon steel and cast iron pots and pans. I've had a deBuyer Mineral B for many years now, formerly in use on an electric stovetop. Worked well, but never got that nice patina and non stick coating.

This is it now. Granted, it is in use almost every day and we treat it with respect, very little soap, very little scrubbing. We use it on the gas top and outside on the grill for searing steaks. Eggs over easy slide around as if on an ice rink. Omelettes just as nice. 




My cast iron, some of it going back to the early 1900s, is looking better than ever also.

This range is a treat to own and use. Even my smoke detector sings it's praises every now and then.

womaus

Damn....meant >$5K, not >%5K.

PigBeanUs

Make sure you have a make-up air vent if your hood is 600-800cfm or more

doesn’t need to be preconditioned. 

You can bring it in directly under the range actually

nolaegghead

PigBeanUs said:

Make sure you have a make-up air vent if your hood is 600-800cfm or more

doesn’t need to be preconditioned. 

You can bring it in directly under the range actually

Or open a window or door.

SonVolt

Out goes the smoke, in goes the flies. 

nolaegghead

Obviously a forced make-up (supply) air system that comes on with the exhaust fan is the ideal way to go (and with a screen on it to eliminate flies and crap). 

Most installations ignore the supply air.  Without it you will not be getting your expected CFM exhaust because of the negative static pressure of the inside of your kitchen.  If you have an old, leaky house like mine or a gigantic house, it probably wont hurt you, but most modern houses are sealed up pretty well.  HVAC systems usually have a fresh air system but that's a net zero design. 

Screen door or screened window will help in both regards if you don't have a make-up system.

I've designed a bunch of these systems for labs up to 24,000 CFM.  When you're dealing with that volume and in hot, humid climates, we have to temper the air.  Your best bet is to do what beanus said and dump the makup air close to the range so you are exhausting outside air and less inside (tempered) air.

PigBeanUs

nolaegghead said:

PigBeanUs said:

Make sure you have a make-up air vent if your hood is 600-800cfm or more

doesn’t need to be preconditioned. 

You can bring it in directly under the range actually

Or open a window or door.

not a year-round option for a large portion of the country, but regardless, also often a code requirement.

you don't want to open a window in december and draw cold air across the room.  better to have a mechanical damper open when the fan comes on, allow air in from the exterior, and duct it to a spot directly under the range.  that air rises up and is drawn straight out, into the hood, and a minimum of cold exterior air is drawn in to the living area.

sold in 6", 8", 10" etc.

https://www.broan-nutone.com/en-us/accessory/md6t

...Pretty sure it is a code requirement with a fan over 600cfm, which is bare minimum anyway.   without it, you draw air in down the chimney, or possibly in through gas appliance vents, and that's a no-no (code-wise).

EDIT: your inspector may start making noise about pre-conditioned makeup air.  this is NOT a residential requirement.

GlennM

We have a roof mounted exhaust fan over a Thermador pro propane cooktop. I heat with wood in the winter. On high the fan will reverse the draft in the chimney (don’t ask me how I know). I have learned to crack the window over the sink when using high 

PigBeanUs

exactly.  it isn't a "hey, make-up air would be a great bonus" it's "make-up air can be a life/safety issue and is required by code"

Tspud1

nolaegghead said:

Obviously a forced make-up (supply) air system that comes on with the exhaust fan is the ideal way to go (and with a screen on it to eliminate flies and crap). 

Most installations ignore the supply air.  Without it you will not be getting your expected CFM exhaust because of the negative static pressure of the inside of your kitchen.  If you have an old, leaky house like mine or a gigantic house, it probably wont hurt you, but most modern houses are sealed up pretty well.  HVAC systems usually have a fresh air system but that's a net zero design. 

Screen door or screened window will help in both regards if you don't have a make-up system.

I've designed a bunch of these systems for labs up to 24,000 CFM.  When you're dealing with that volume and in hot, humid climates, we have to temper the air.  Your best bet is to do what beanus said and dump the makup air close to the range so you are exhausting outside air and less inside (tempered) air.

sometimes the flame will lift off the oven burner as well if makup air isnt right

caliking

caliqueen informed me that she is officially pi$$ed off with our cooktop. I've been mad at it for years, but was waiting for her to come around. "We need to get rid of it" she says. I didn't tell her that Ive had this thread bookmarked

i'm looking at a 30" Bluestar cooktop, which should drop right in to replace the current one. Not opposed to other brands, though. 

Questions:
-what's the difference/advantage between open vs. sealed burners? My understanding is that open burners= moar BTU's, but sealed burners are easier to clean. Someone is this house is a somewhat messy chef

- The exhaust hood needs to go too. Its a real POS. Replace with 500 cfm? 750cfm? 900cfm? It well vent to the outside, through the wall. 

Any help @botch , @AprèsSki , @alaskanassasin , @PigBeanUs , @buzd504 , and others?

Thatgrimguy

The open star shaped burners on the bluestar are really easy to maintain (ableit not as easy as Wolf's design) and provide much more even heat when compared to the mushroom shaped burners on a wolf. Every Wolf owner that cooks on my Bluestar just oohs and ahhs over it.

buzd504

caliking said:

caliqueen informed me that she is officially pi$$ed off with our cooktop. I've been mad at it for years, but was waiting for her to come around. "We need to get rid of it" she says. I didn't tell her that Ive had this thread bookmarked

i'm looking at a 30" Bluestar cooktop, which should drop right in to replace the current one. Not opposed to other brands, though. 

Questions:
-what's the difference/advantage between open vs. sealed burners? My understanding is that open burners= moar BTU's, but sealed burners are easier to clean. Someone is this house is a somewhat messy chef

- The exhaust hood needs to go too. Its a real POS. Replace with 500 cfm? 750cfm? 900cfm? It well vent to the outside, through the wall. 

Any help @botch , @AprèsSki , @alaskanassasin , @PigBeanUs , @buzd504 , and others?

I will say this - we have a 36" Verona (https://veronaappliances.com/ranges/36-inch-prestige-dual-fuel-single-oven) so we get 12k BTU in the front and 17k in the center, and I almost never use the burners on full power (exceptions - wok, searing in cast iron, and boiling water).  I have to dial down most recipes' concept of "medium high" or "medium". 

We have a 600CFM hood (vented to the outside) and it is adequate.  NB - don't put two vent dampers in the exhaust line or it won't work at all.  Ask me how I know.

PigBeanUs

High performance cooktops should have excellent ventilation. I think 600cfm min but mo’ is bettah. 

And again, make-up air is required, or you won’t get the full ventilation

Botch

@caliking, I just gave my new BlueStar its first thorough cleaning, and for me it was sixes.  The stainless steel is a bit harder to clean on the new stove (I'm just using hot water and dishsoap) than the glass top of my old one, but the grates were, maybe, easier to clean (I say maybe as the new grates are flat-black coated cast iron, and the old grates were enameled-grey CI, easier to see black burned-on bits; out of sight, out of mind).  You have to be more careful cleaning the burners themselves, as the igniter wire is exposed and easy to snag, but I'm not so messy a cook and they haven't needed cleaning yet, that I could see.  

alaskanassasin

Mine is still in the box in the barn.

alaskanassasin

    Like others said there is calculation for selecting hood vent cfm and it is based on all four burners on and wide open. Since that will probably never happen I went with a smaller 600cfm hood so I would not have to purchase and install a make up kit.  A typical cook that runs the hood in my house is usually one burner and 600cfm should keep up with it.

 

caliking

alaskanassasin said:

    Like others said there is calculation for selecting hood vent cfm and it is based on all four burners on and wide open. Since that will probably never happen I went with a smaller 600cfm hood so I would not have to purchase and install a make up kit.  A typical cook that runs the hood in my house is usually one burner and 600cfm should keep up with it.

 

Thanks for the info. The Bluestar cooktop is ~75K BTU's total, so it seems that that a 500cfm hood should suffice.

What's the diameter of the exhaust/vent ducting for yours?

caliking

Botch said:

@caliking, I just gave my new BlueStar its first thorough cleaning, and for me it was sixes.  The stainless steel is a bit harder to clean on the new stove (I'm just using hot water and dishsoap) than the glass top of my old one, but the grates were, maybe, easier to clean (I say maybe as the new grates are flat-black coated cast iron, and the old grates were enameled-grey CI, easier to see black burned-on bits; out of sight, out of mind).  You have to be more careful cleaning the burners themselves, as the igniter wire is exposed and easy to snag, but I'm not so messy a cook and they haven't needed cleaning yet, that I could see.  

caliqueen is the one who's messy here . I'll need to have a chat with her. And then I'll see myself to a few nights of sleeping on the couch. 

This may be a dumb question, but with open burners does crud fall onto shelves or cabinets below the cooktop?

caliking

PigBeanUs said:

High performance cooktops should have excellent ventilation. I think 600cfm min but mo’ is bettah. 

And again, make-up air is required, or you won’t get the full ventilation

I need to look into the make-up air situation some more. 

Checked again, and the Bluestar cooktop has  simmer, 8.5K, and 2x 22K burners. So, maybe total 65K BTU tops?

caliking

Thatgrimguy said:

The open star shaped burners on the bluestar are really easy to maintain (ableit not as easy as Wolf's design) and provide much more even heat when compared to the mushroom shaped burners on a wolf. Every Wolf owner that cooks on my Bluestar just oohs and ahhs over it.

Considering Bluestar vs. Thermador as the top two contenders, with others lower on the list. But I don't know much about the others, so that's good info. 

PigBeanUs

We went with 600cfm for a 30”, and frankly, as good as it is, would not mind a bit more. 

Can still sometimes smell stuff cooking in the other room, but grease gets sucked right up and out, as well as any smoke.  

we sear and fry a lot. The baffles do a fantastic job catching all the oil. Maybe clean it every couple weeks. The baffles come out and go right in the dishwasher. 

Ours has an internal blower. It can be a little loud. If you can get the external blower (mounted on the other end of the run, like on the roof or an exterior wall, pulling the air), it will be much quieter

although i say we wouldn’t mind a bit more power, 600cfm really is fine. No oil lands on the cabinets above, for example. And it is adjustable, so it doesn’t run 600 all the time. Gets quieter the lower the speed

The makeup air is really just another duct letting air in. 

Here’s an installation near the range. Don’t get confused by the raised counter or platform under the range. That is NOT needed. Was a separate thing in this video. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NsSvMB9bJeE

We ducted ours in thru the floor joists (not the cabinet like this guy) to a spot under the stove, and 90° elbow dumps air right under the range

kl8ton

caliking said:

Thatgrimguy said:

The open star shaped burners on the bluestar are really easy to maintain (ableit not as easy as Wolf's design) and provide much more even heat when compared to the mushroom shaped burners on a wolf. Every Wolf owner that cooks on my Bluestar just oohs and ahhs over it.

Considering Bluestar vs. Thermador as the top two contenders, with others lower on the list. But I don't know much about the others, so that's good info. 

When I was shopping, I wouldn't pull the trigger on the thermador. The model they showed me would ignite and shut off repeatedly on a simmer setting. I couldn't handle the clicking of ignition. 

We had a 1200 cfm hood over an 8 burner wolf.  Code required an automatic air makeup unit.  Builders added that in the basement.  It was wired to the hood.

What I really wanted, but didn't get, was a hood with a remote fan to reduce the decibel level in the house.  This is where the fan/ blower motor would be mounted in the ductwork near the exit end of hood exhaust . The air being sucked  in would still be loud but reduced.  

kl8ton

If anyone is looking for a hood, we were happy with ours.  Zephyr was the brand.  

alaskanassasin

I’ll measure it today @caliking. We also went with a zephyr hood, the appliance store strongly recommended a Ventahood here is a cut and paste from his email.

  “ Ventahood is definitely the better performing option, and will be SIGNIFICANTLY more quiet than any other hood option.  I know it is priced much higher, but there is definitely a lot of added value in performance between Ventahood and any other brand.  I'm more than happy to bore you with some ventilation talk if you'd like, but I'll make you ask for that punishment.”

SonVolt

PigBeanUs said:

We ducted ours in thru the floor joists (not the cabinet like this guy) to a spot under the stove, and 90° elbow dumps air right under the range

@PigBeanUs

Do you have a pic you could share? Is it ducted in directly under the stove? Or just near it, flush-mounted on the floor similar to a normal AC vent. 

GlennM

Our cooktop is a thermador 36” with the griddle in the center. We use the griddle a lot!  Ours has the two burners that click on and off, never bothers me. The fan for it is mounted on the roof and that helps with the noise but you can still hear it. I have problems getting my wife to watch the heat. She tends to put the burners of full blast every time she sets something on the burner. They are very hot and it can be smoke central if you lose your attention!

alaskanassasin

caliking said:

Botch said:

@caliking, I just gave my new BlueStar its first thorough cleaning, and for me it was sixes.  The stainless steel is a bit harder to clean on the new stove (I'm just using hot water and dishsoap) than the glass top of my old one, but the grates were, maybe, easier to clean (I say maybe as the new grates are flat-black coated cast iron, and the old grates were enameled-grey CI, easier to see black burned-on bits; out of sight, out of mind).  You have to be more careful cleaning the burners themselves, as the igniter wire is exposed and easy to snag, but I'm not so messy a cook and they haven't needed cleaning yet, that I could see.  

caliqueen is the one who's messy here . I'll need to have a chat with her. And then I'll see myself to a few nights of sleeping on the couch. 

This may be a dumb question, but with open burners does crud fall onto shelves or cabinets below the cooktop?

 The way I understand it there is a large cookie sheet under the burners that catches all the crap and can be slid out the front for cleaning. Maybe @Thatgrimguy or someone with experience can chime in.

PigBeanUs

SonVolt said:

PigBeanUs said:

We ducted ours in thru the floor joists (not the cabinet like this guy) to a spot under the stove, and 90° elbow dumps air right under the range

@PigBeanUs

Do you have a pic you could share? Is it ducted in directly under the stove? Or just near it, flush-mounted on the floor similar to a normal AC vent. 

The duct is in the joist bay (under the floor) along the wall below the cabinets parallel to the back wall

Imagine a round floor vent in the floor, without a register, centered under the range. That was the plan. We finagled ours a little different (gas connection in the basement messed with the geometry) but same result. 

For a 30” range, we knew we had four feet in the corner and nothing would fall where the opening was. 

We just triple-checked the stove to make sure no feet land where the opening would be. 

It’s passive. Just an open or shut damper (no fan draws make up air in). So any restriction means that make up air will have drag, and it may draw come from somewhere else also

we still get a whiff of creosote from the fireplace if the fan is on max. Because the air from the make up vent has a less direct path. 

You *might* consider upsizing the damper/duct diameter. 

I think the 600cfm range req’d an 8” makeup air duct. 

10” is a minor increase in expense. 

Backing way up though:

your hood will exhaust a lot of air. It needs to come from somewhere. Winter heating and summer cooling will be affected when that air gets sucked out. 

So wherever you put the make-up air, at least try to dump it into the kitchen, as close to the range as possible. 

If you did a linear register in the floor in front of the range, that would work. But we didn’t want visible registers (radiant heat floor), and in the winter, the cook would be standing in a cold updraft.