Washington Football Team

JohnInCarolina

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

StillH2OEgger

stv8r said:

I'm so sick of this "pc" movement.  Leave well enough alone.  99% of Native Americans polled had no problem with the name.  It's the activist left trying to make trouble where none exists!

Do you have a source for this? I'd be shocked if this is true.

Battleborn

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

Have we ever really listened to what Native Americans think?

Eoin

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

That happened a long time ago.

johnnyp

Eoin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

That happened a long time ago.

That’s really a major fault line over here. Trying to balance nationalistic pride with an understanding that our country hasn’t always acted to the highest moral standard, particularly in the 19th century. 

JohnInCarolina

Battleborn said:

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

Have we ever really listened to what Native Americans think?

My sense is that we only do when it’s convenient, yeah.

johnnyp

johnnyp said:

Eoin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

That happened a long time ago.

That’s really a major fault line over here. Trying to balance nationalistic pride with an understanding that our country hasn’t always acted to the highest moral standard, particularly in the 19th century. 

@Eoin I’m curious for your perspective from across the pond.  How does the UK discuss morally deficient behavior from your country’s past? If a Premier League team had questionable iconography from the British Colonial era, would the general public care? 

Teefus

How about the lawn chairs? As in folded like a lawn chair? 

Eoin

johnnyp said:

johnnyp said:

Eoin said:

JohnInCarolina said:

This country really has lost its soul if we no longer listen to what Native Americans think.

That happened a long time ago.

That’s really a major fault line over here. Trying to balance nationalistic pride with an understanding that our country hasn’t always acted to the highest moral standard, particularly in the 19th century. 

@Eoin I’m curious for your perspective from across the pond.  How does the UK discuss morally deficient behavior from your country’s past? If a Premier League team had questionable iconography from the British Colonial era, would the general public care? 

The kind of use of iconography that is seen in US sports isn't the same, because we aren't in the same cultural position regarding colonisation. The UK (and most of Europe) is a melting pot, frequent changes of power and bouts of immigration over thousands of years. We never had the recent and rapid elimination of an indigenous population and then the appropriation of it's heritage as happened in the US, first by Britain and then by the USA.

Regarding more recent events, our teaching and view of history is largely that the British Empire was a great thing and to be celebrated. We ignore our frequent and bloody mis-deeds of the past and our pillaging of wealth from large parts of the world.  Of course, that wealth was not for everyone, being concentrated then and now in the hands of a few. My family tree goes back to 1811 (maybe further if my dad has kept working on it), an 11 or 12 year old boy working as a miner in Cornwall. I doubt that he saw much of the wealth of the Empire.

The current BLM movement and questioning of the past has been a bit of a turning point here in our view of ourselves, at least for some of us. The idea that we were always the 'good guys' civilising the savages and converting them from their heathen beliefs is not as universally accepted as it was. People who made their money from human misery in the past, who then bought themselves a good name by philanthropic works, are being looked at in a different light. Their names decorate street signs and buildings across the country.  Of course, none of this is reflected in our current government, made up of the same old establishment figures who attended Eton and Oxbridge. Privelige and power in the UK is still very much dependent of your upbringing and schooling, not your ability.

Botch

Thanks @Eoin, that was interesting.  

GATraveller

We have a long history of abhorrent treatment of our indigenous peoples and anyone who's been on a reservation knows it hasn't gotten any better. 

johnnyp

Looks like this is sinking. 

I guess I get it, controversial and all. But I thought this stayed pretty civil. 

Canugghead

If it's sinking, let's put it out of misery ...
Current Johns Hopkins covid-19 numbers in US, 
# of cases 2,897,613
# of deaths 130,007
If 99% of cases are totally harmless, even assuming all survivors have zero harm short or long term, # of cases should be 13,000,700