OT - New Skill to learn....Great Knife Sharpening

MNEggerandStuff

Winter is coming so I need some indoor things to do.  What do you all think is the best route to go to learn knife sharpening.  I figure I'll give up $300 for this initial outlay for what I need but the question is, what do I need.  Is Ken Onion "good enough" or what do you all recommend for a guy getting into knife sharpening for the first time and wants what he learns to be able to be used over and over and not just be a flash in the pan thing.

Of course I want my knives to become so sharp that I can circumcise a knat. That is until a loose some of my own skin and then I'll back it down a but. The mirror finish I've seen others get is cool but not sure I have the ongoing patience to do that over and over again.

So is Ken the man or what do you all recommend?

https://www.worksharptools.com/product/ken-onion-edition-knife-tool-sharpener/ 

HeavyG

There are lots of threads here discussing that Worksharp tool. A search will turn them up. In general, it's a good tool used by lots of folks.

Lots of other threads discuss hand sharpening and other tools. Search is your friend.

MNEggerandStuff

Yeah, the search is always a great option as there is soo much great info in teh archives of this sight I agree!  I've and read through a lot of the past threads, hadn't seen one in the past couple months so I was kind of hoping there was a new product or something that someone would bring up.

EggNorth

I tried many sharpening tools over the years, but not the one listed above.    Now I have a $5 hand file and it works great ... also works on my garden tools, which is a bonus.   

MNEggerandStuff

EggNorth said:

I tried many sharpening tools over the years, but not the one listed above.    Now I have a $5 hand file and it works great ... also works on my garden tools, which is a bonus.   

What kind of knives are you sharpening?  If I took a hand file to my kitchen knives, well, I'm not sure exactly what would happen but being sharp is not a possible outcome!

JethroBodeen

Ken has some great knife designs. I carry one everyday. I own lots of sharpening implements for knives, axes, chainsaws, etc. This tool is hard to beat and very easy to use. lots of useful videos by the manufacturer as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE?ref_=ast_sto_dp

WeberWho

You're more than welcomed to try my Ken Onion knife sharpener and see if you like it on your knives. 

Moleman

Honestly I own a “wicked edge”. It’s one of the more expensive systems out there. Even purchased some of the extra stones. Currently waiting on the Ken onion to go on sale as it seems to do a few times a year and then I’ll purchase it. A family member did and I use it pretty often. Just me .02. 

lkapigian

Love my KO work sharp , more than enough for me

Botch

You mentioned "something to do" during the upcoming Minnesota winter.  If you buy one of the excellent machines on the market, you can unbox it, fill out the Warranty card, read all the instructions, and sharpen all your knives, in under an hour.  If you're looking to learn a new skill, over the winter, I'd suggest getting a set of good Japanese waterstones (both options can cost you less than half your budget).  
 
I use both.  I bought a Chef'sChoice Trizor for my kitchen knives, which ground them down to a narrower, Japanese-style cutting angle.  Once ground, I haven't used the machine since, my sharpening steel has kept the edge even on my most-used chef's knife.  
I use waterstones in my woodshop, on my chisels and plane blades.  They all have straight edges, not curved, so that works okay for me.  Kinda messy, but I can slide paper with my chisels.  
 
Again, for a cool skill to learn over the winter, try waterstones on your kitchen knives.  There are some EweTube videos of sushi masters sharpening their Japanese knives on waterstones, and they develop a perfectly-uniform darkening on the waterstones, use every bit of real estate on the stones, almost looks like ballet, and then slice a tomato into 1/16" slices; Wow!  

dmourati

@Botch, I've really been enjoying your posts lately, thanks!

I looked into the japanese water stone approach myself but never pulled the trigger. This place comes highly recommended:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/pages/sharpening-supplies

I've got two nice Japanese kitchen knives that I have to sharpen at some point here so I'm in the same boat as OP.

Lit

I have a KO worksharp. I have only used it once and was not a fan. It didn’t feel like I was keeping the same angle and seems like something I would have to use a lot to get used to. I prefer whetstones and it’s much cheaper. You can buy a king 1000/6000 stone for $30 and watch the sharpening tutorials on chefknivestogo.com. 6000 grit is plenty to get a knife really sharp. I also use a handamerica strop kit with a 1 micron and half micron loaded strop with a bovine strop to polish but 6000 grit is all you really need. Here’s the stone I have been using for probably 10 years. https://www.amazon.com/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sxin_3_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-a2luZyAxMDAwLzYwMDAgd2hldHN0b25l-ac_d_rm&crid=9WXACKQQN7CG&keywords=king+1000%2F6000+whetstone&pd_rd_i=B001DT1X9O&pd_rd_r=9c6dc71f-a2ec-4261-8cac-4795fc1be569&pd_rd_w=4Tsbc&pd_rd_wg=cuzGv&pf_rd_p=404c4843-2c96-4d0d-a5fe-2b0598693e61&pf_rd_r=NCDZN3NVPKC6P1RF252M&qid=1569375405&s=gateway&sprefix=King+1000%2Caps%2C146

Lit

And be careful a sharp knife can be dangerous. Wife took out her tendon in her thumb a couple weeks back. 

MNEggerandStuff

Botch said:

You mentioned "something to do" during the upcoming Minnesota winter.  If you buy one of the excellent machines on the market, you can unbox it, fill out the Warranty card, read all the instructions, and sharpen all your knives, in under an hour.  If you're looking to learn a new skill, over the winter, I'd suggest getting a set of good Japanese waterstones (both options can cost you less than half your budget).  
 
I use both.  I bought a Chef'sChoice Trizor for my kitchen knives, which ground them down to a narrower, Japanese-style cutting angle.  Once ground, I haven't used the machine since, my sharpening steel has kept the edge even on my most-used chef's knife.  
I use waterstones in my woodshop, on my chisels and plane blades.  They all have straight edges, not curved, so that works okay for me.  Kinda messy, but I can slide paper with my chisels.  
 
Again, for a cool skill to learn over the winter, try waterstones on your kitchen knives.  There are some EweTube videos of sushi masters sharpening their Japanese knives on waterstones, and they develop a perfectly-uniform darkening on the waterstones, use every bit of real estate on the stones, almost looks like ballet, and then slice a tomato into 1/16" slices; Wow!  

I watched a video on the stones and am now intrigued.  How do you know what angle to use and if you are hitting that angle though?  seems like you need a experienced person watching and correcting you for a while....  

What's the real difference between the inexpensive and the expensive stones.  I've seen stones from $10 to $300....

MNEggerandStuff

Lit said:

And be careful a sharp knife can be dangerous. Wife took out her tendon in her thumb a couple weeks back. 

OMG that's what I am afraid of doing but am always told it happens more with dull knives.  (I don't believe them as a dull knife takes force to do that, a really sharp knife just need a moments lapse in handling 

will she be okay?  does she still have use of it?

nolaegghead

whoever said dull knives were more dangerous never had a truly wicked sharp knife 

milesvdustin

I use a sharpmaker, it makes them very very sharp. 

Lit

MNEggerandStuff said:

Lit said:

And be careful a sharp knife can be dangerous. Wife took out her tendon in her thumb a couple weeks back. 

OMG that's what I am afraid of doing but am always told it happens more with dull knives.  (I don't believe them as a dull knife takes force to do that, a really sharp knife just need a moments lapse in handling 

will she be okay?  does she still have use of it?

Yeah she’s fine. Had surgery to reattach the tendon last week and can feel it trying to move again. I think the dull knife theory works for things like tomatoes where a dull knife tends to slip where a sharp knife won’t. A knife sharpened with 1000 grit is better for cutting tomatoes than a knife sharpened to 10000 grit but to the 1000 grit leaving a toothy finish that won’t slip. I’ve only cut myself once and I was drinking pretty heavily so it was a stupid move. 

oldgeezeystax

Lit said:

I have a KO worksharp. I have only used it once and was not a fan. It didn’t feel like I was keeping the same angle and seems like something I would have to use a lot to get used to. I prefer whetstones and it’s much cheaper. You can buy a king 1000/6000 stone for $30 and watch the sharpening tutorials on chefknivestogo.com. 6000 grit is plenty to get a knife really sharp. I also use a handamerica strop kit with a 1 micron and half micron loaded strop with a bovine strop to polish but 6000 grit is all you really need. Here’s the stone I have been using for probably 10 years. https://www.amazon.com/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sxin_3_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-a2luZyAxMDAwLzYwMDAgd2hldHN0b25l-ac_d_rm&crid=9WXACKQQN7CG&keywords=king+1000%2F6000+whetstone&pd_rd_i=B001DT1X9O&pd_rd_r=9c6dc71f-a2ec-4261-8cac-4795fc1be569&pd_rd_w=4Tsbc&pd_rd_wg=cuzGv&pf_rd_p=404c4843-2c96-4d0d-a5fe-2b0598693e61&pf_rd_r=NCDZN3NVPKC6P1RF252M&qid=1569375405&s=gateway&sprefix=King+1000%2Caps%2C146

Would one also need to purchase a more course stone if their knife was really dull? 

1voyager

A dual-sided 400/1000 grit water whetstone works fine for me. 

I should probably change my name from 1voyager to 1cheapdude. 

dannys

I bought this version of the tool the OP mentions. I think it is a little cheaper than the Ken Onion version.

Boker Knife Sharpener

Lit

oldgeezeystax said:

Lit said:

I have a KO worksharp. I have only used it once and was not a fan. It didn’t feel like I was keeping the same angle and seems like something I would have to use a lot to get used to. I prefer whetstones and it’s much cheaper. You can buy a king 1000/6000 stone for $30 and watch the sharpening tutorials on chefknivestogo.com. 6000 grit is plenty to get a knife really sharp. I also use a handamerica strop kit with a 1 micron and half micron loaded strop with a bovine strop to polish but 6000 grit is all you really need. Here’s the stone I have been using for probably 10 years. https://www.amazon.com/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sxin_3_ac_d_rm?ac_md=0-0-a2luZyAxMDAwLzYwMDAgd2hldHN0b25l-ac_d_rm&crid=9WXACKQQN7CG&keywords=king+1000%2F6000+whetstone&pd_rd_i=B001DT1X9O&pd_rd_r=9c6dc71f-a2ec-4261-8cac-4795fc1be569&pd_rd_w=4Tsbc&pd_rd_wg=cuzGv&pf_rd_p=404c4843-2c96-4d0d-a5fe-2b0598693e61&pf_rd_r=NCDZN3NVPKC6P1RF252M&qid=1569375405&s=gateway&sprefix=King+1000%2Caps%2C146

Would one also need to purchase a more course stone if their knife was really dull? 

It would have to bereally dull to need less than 1000 grit. I do have a 300 grit stone that I use for flattening my 1000/6000 stone. I have used the 300 grit stone to take chips out of other people’s knives before but never needed it on mine. 

Botch

MNEggerandStuff said:
I watched a video on the stones and am now intrigued.  How do you know what angle to use and if you are hitting that angle though?   

What's the real difference between the inexpensive and the expensive stones.  I've seen stones from $10 to $300....

That's the part that will take all winter!  I imagine you could cut some wedges at the angle(s) you want, to give your hands a reference.  But, this is exactly why I bought my Trizor for my kitchen knives, the angle is automatic.
With my woodworking tools, the edges are straight, so you can get various jigs that hold the tool at the correct angle.  I've seen woodworkers who sharpen their chisels free-hand, but that's not a skill I have.  Maybe after I retire...
 
EDIT:  Oh, and the diff between a $10 and $300 stone?  My old waterstones were under $100, iirc, and I think most would probably work fine.  I did switch to diamond-studded steel plates; the waterstones eventually dish out and need to be reflattened, a hassle.  That's what's so mesmerizing about the sushi knife sharpening, you can see that they're using the entire surface and the stone probably stays flat.  

Woodbutcher

I use Bob Kramers sharpening system. It is a ceramic wet stone kit that works well. https://kramerknives.com/product/6-piece-sharpening-kit-by-zwilling/

MNEggerandStuff

Botch said:

MNEggerandStuff said:
I watched a video on the stones and am now intrigued.  How do you know what angle to use and if you are hitting that angle though?   

What's the real difference between the inexpensive and the expensive stones.  I've seen stones from $10 to $300....

That's the part that will take all winter!  I imagine you could cut some wedges at the angle(s) you want, to give your hands a reference.  But, this is exactly why I bought my Trizor for my kitchen knives, the angle is automatic.
With my woodworking tools, the edges are straight, so you can get various jigs that hold the tool at the correct angle.  I've seen woodworkers who sharpen their chisels free-hand, but that's not a skill I have.  Maybe after I retire...
 
EDIT:  Oh, and the diff between a $10 and $300 stone?  My old waterstones were under $100, iirc, and I think most would probably work fine.  I did switch to diamond-studded steel plates; the waterstones eventually dish out and need to be reflattened, a hassle.  That's what's so mesmerizing about the sushi knife sharpening, you can see that they're using the entire surface and the stone probably stays flat.  

In the video I watched the guy did the step of using the diamond stone on each stone after using it to sharpen a knife so that it was flat for the next time.  

I'm thinking this is the way to go over an Onion or other type of system.  It looks like it's all down to just buying a set of stones, plates, holders (whatever you call them).  

I still don't understand why some stones would be 10 and some would be $200.  I guess it's all down to the feel and finish they leave.  I would like to be able to get to the mirror finish and remove other scratches since I am going this far.  

I appreciate the input and will look at these and the other stones mentioned and let everyone know how this goes.  Any injuries will be documented of course

Thanks for all the input and stay tuned!

lentsboy007

“Circumcise a gnat” 

littlerascal56

If someone brings a knife by and is really dull or needs blade recountoured, it goes on belt sander.  From there the final edge is done with Japanese water stones till it’s “surgical” sharp!

MNEggerandStuff

lentsboy007 said:

“Circumcise a gnat” 

i was getting kindof sad that it took this long for that reference to be brought up

Bear 007

If you want to learn something use waterstones,  it can be relaxing. Search Burrfection on youtube all kinds of info.

MattBTI

I've got the worksharp hand sharpening set. I don't do the volume that would require me to have a powered sharpener. I get along with what i've got just fine. 

Lit

Woodbutcher said:

I use Bob Kramers sharpening system. It is a ceramic wet stone kit that works well. https://kramerknives.com/product/6-piece-sharpening-kit-by-zwilling/

Before he sold his own set he used to recommend the King 1000/6000 stone. I actually got mine on his website like 10 years ago or so.