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KAB and Airflow

Been using my KAB for 4 cooks or so now, and contrary to @stlcharcoal thoughts and what I agree should be all about the bottom vent setting I'm finding that the egg is running much hotter now.  My standard setting for ~350 was bottom open ~1/4" and no cap, now I'm a credit card opening on bottom vent- no cap and struggle to stay under ~400.  Will definitely keep an eye on this and report back.

xfire_ATX said:
Kick Ash Basket- salesguy noted it would change my vent settings, and after fun with above I didn't need it all different. 

BS.......it doesn't change the vent setting on low and slow.  The same amount of air comes and the same amount leaves to maintain a certain temp.  That's the same old tale as people saying it burns more charcoal, a FlameBoss uses more charcoal, or that smaller charcoal pieces burn faster.  Throw it in there and dont look back.


LBGE, Charbroil Gas Grill, Weber Q2000, Old Weber Kettle, Yeti 65, RTIC 20, Too many Yeti/ RTIC drinkware vessels to mention.

Not quite in Austin, TX City Limits
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Comments

  • stlcharcoalstlcharcoal Posts: 3,979
    I said it doesn't change anything on low and slow.  350 is not low and slow.

    Put the cap on and limit the exhaust.  350 would still be bottom 1/4 open and the pedals full open on the DMFT......or some combination thereof.
  • 1voyager1voyager Posts: 705
    edited July 8
    My settings for low and slow haven't changed and I'm using much less lump per cook. KAB has paid for itself many times over.
    Somewhere in Colorado
    LBGE, PGS A40 Gasser and too much Griswold cast iron cookware.
  • WeberWhoWeberWho Posts: 7,633
    I keep the fire grate in with the KAB in my large. I needed to close the lower vent just a hair more with the KAB in place. (I don't use the dmft for any cooks over 300 degrees) So I felt I was getting adequate air. I felt if I removed the fire grate and only used my KAB I'd have to relearn lower vent settings for temps. I didn't think it was necessary. 

    Toss in the fire grate if temps are all over the place for you. See if that helps any. Fire grate in my large egg and no fire grate with the KAB in the small egg. All just personal preferences.
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
  • whldchwhldch Posts: 123
    I just smoked st Louis ribs for about 6 hours at 250. I ran out of lump for the first time ever, probably less than an hour before optimal cook time. The only thing I changed was the KAB. I started to lose consistent temps at 5 hours. This was disappointing, I've cooked 8-9 hours without ever adding lump.
  • stlcharcoalstlcharcoal Posts: 3,979
    whldch said:
    I just smoked st Louis ribs for about 6 hours at 250. I ran out of lump for the first time ever, probably less than an hour before optimal cook time. The only thing I changed was the KAB. I started to lose consistent temps at 5 hours. This was disappointing, I've cooked 8-9 hours without ever adding lump.
    There is no way to burn any sizable amount lump without a higher temp if all things are equal.  BTU/# is BTU/#, so it doesn't matter if there's a basket or anything else in the middle.  If temp and meat are the same, then the only way to get rid of charcoal faster is to burn it at a higher temp.  The only other way is to have something else eating the BTU's.....bigger piece of meat, water pan, etc (but even those are not going to make that big of a difference.)  Rain, snow, high winds can cause the Egg to lose heat, but again, not very much and surely not in this case.

    What you're describing sounds like you didn't have enough charcoal in the egg, or your dome temp gauge is off.  Either way, there's nothing that a basket, fire grate, grilling rig, plate setter, or any other gadget could have done to produce what you described.  In the end on a L&S, you are controlling the airflow going in via the draft door, and the exhaust going out via the chimney--nothing in the middle changes the amount of oxygen hitting the fire.  Law of conservation of energy.  O2 use is constant, the amount of heat produced is constant, therefore the fuel use is constant.
  • xfire_ATXxfire_ATX Posts: 695
    xfire_ATX said:
    Been using my KAB for 4 cooks or so now, and contrary to @stlcharcoal thoughts and what I agree should be all about the bottom vent setting I'm finding that the egg is running much hotter now.  My standard setting for ~350 was bottom open ~1/4" and no cap, now I'm a credit card opening on bottom vent- no cap and struggle to stay under ~400.  Will definitely keep an eye on this and report back.

    xfire_ATX said:
    Kick Ash Basket- salesguy noted it would change my vent settings, and after fun with above I didn't need it all different. 

    BS.......it doesn't change the vent setting on low and slow.  The same amount of air comes and the same amount leaves to maintain a certain temp.  That's the same old tale as people saying it burns more charcoal, a FlameBoss uses more charcoal, or that smaller charcoal pieces burn faster.  Throw it in there and dont look back.


    For low and slow I use a cap of some sort.  For 95% of my cooks I do 350 or so and grill direct/ indirect.  Just find it interesting how much difference in the bottom vent has been needed to keep similar temps once I went to KAB
    LBGE, Charbroil Gas Grill, Weber Q2000, Old Weber Kettle, Yeti 65, RTIC 20, Too many Yeti/ RTIC drinkware vessels to mention.

    Not quite in Austin, TX City Limits
  • smbishopsmbishop Posts: 2,536
    Just sharing my experience.  I have one in both my large and small.  I have used with the OEM grate and without and have not noticed much of a difference in vent settings for high or low cooks.  I keep the grate in on both, just a personal preference because I like picking up the small pieces that fall through and toss them back in the basket when I start a new cook.  I fill the basket to the top or more for all types of cooks.  Just did a 15 hour brisket with lump left over...
    Southlake, TX, and Cowhouse Creek, Gatesville, TX.  2 Large, 1 Small and a lot of Eggcessories.
  • I haven't experienced a difference in the vent settings with the KAB. I do not use the stainless BGE grate under the basket. I also haven't noticed it burning through lump quicker than before. 
  • DoubleEggerDoubleEgger Posts: 15,651
    The KAB improves airflow around the lump and that’s what causes the higher temps. The gap from the KAB to the sidewalls of the firebox facilitates the improved airflow. 
  • mEGG_My_DaymEGG_My_Day Posts: 1,419
    Just so you have covered all bases, you may want to check that you have a good seal between dome and base.  If you are leaking there, it will cause increased air flow and spikes in temps. 
    Memphis, TN 

    LBGE, SBGE, Hasty-Bake Gourmet, (Akron was gifted to a friend)
  • JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina Posts: 15,178

    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike


  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307
    I can't figure out if this is a thread about violating the physical law of conservation of energy or if the KAB is a perpetual motion machine or performing some kind of alien technology version of cold fusion.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307

    Reminds me of devices that improve car mileage.....


    The Scientific Explanation

    • Promoters claim fuel-line magnets will break up "clumped" fuel molecules so that gas burns more efficiently. "But gasoline molecules don't clump up," Allen says, "and … don't respond to magnetic force."

    • Engine ionizers clip to spark plugs, supposedly to increase combustion efficiency. But in tests, Allen says, increased combustion served to decrease power — and triggered an engine fire.

    • Vortex generators are said to mix fuel more efficiently with air. What they really do is reduce the air flowing into the manifold, reducing power.
    • Vapor injectors are said to convert raw fuel to vapor outside the engine for better performance. In reality, engine computers prevent any such benefit.

    • Water injectors use technology that provided emergency power in World War II planes. But tests show this technology doesn't work in automobiles.

    • A device that plugs into a cigarette lighter is claimed to "smooth out noise" in electrical systems and increase mileage. No such gain was found in tests by Popular Mechanics and Consumer Reports.

    So what does the device do? "It lights up when you plug it in," says CR's Sue LaColla.

    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 25,146
    if it lights up purple...fussion. 
    if it lights up blue....fission

    definitely fission or do you see purple

    image

  • JohnInCarolinaJohnInCarolina Posts: 15,178
    I can't figure out if this is a thread about violating the physical law of conservation of energy or if the KAB is a perpetual motion machine or performing some kind of alien technology version of cold fusion.
    People say there are laws of thermodynamics, but I just say that laws are made to be broken!
    "A generation of the unteachable is hanging upon us like a necklace of corpses." - George Orwell 

    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike


  • jtcBoyntonjtcBoynton Posts: 2,502
    I can't figure out if this is a thread about violating the physical law of conservation of energy or if the KAB is a perpetual motion machine or performing some kind of alien technology version of cold fusion.
    BTUs are BTUs and airflow controls the size of the fire in our eggs.  However, not all the air entering the egg makes it to the fire. Some passes through without contributing to the burn.  The KAB can make a small difference in air getting to the fire. If someone routinely built fires that blocked free flow to the fire site, then the KAB might allow more air to reach the fire leading to more charcoal burn without changing the vent settings.
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307
    I can't figure out if this is a thread about violating the physical law of conservation of energy or if the KAB is a perpetual motion machine or performing some kind of alien technology version of cold fusion.
    BTUs are BTUs and airflow controls the size of the fire in our eggs.  However, not all the air entering the egg makes it to the fire. Some passes through without contributing to the burn.  The KAB can make a small difference in air getting to the fire. If someone routinely built fires that blocked free flow to the fire site, then the KAB might allow more air to reach the fire leading to more charcoal burn without changing the vent settings.
    Sure, but can you explain to me how someone switching to a KAB uses less fuel (lump) for the same cook?
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307
    I totally get vent settings.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 25,146
    it is possible that start up would be faster with vents wide open and you are creating a bigger fire before the ceramics heat up. when you close them down to your setting you over shoot the temp range you are looking for with that bigger fire. it will come back down to range if you wait it out and keep with your known setting. that being said, i dont use settings and just merge into my temp range, i think most of us just do that
  • ColtsFanColtsFan Posts: 3,623
    I can't figure out if this is a thread about violating the physical law of conservation of energy or if the KAB is a perpetual motion machine or performing some kind of alien technology version of cold fusion.
    BTUs are BTUs and airflow controls the size of the fire in our eggs.  However, not all the air entering the egg makes it to the fire. Some passes through without contributing to the burn.  The KAB can make a small difference in air getting to the fire. If someone routinely built fires that blocked free flow to the fire site, then the KAB might allow more air to reach the fire leading to more charcoal burn without changing the vent settings.
    But does all the air entering the egg exit?



    BTW, these are flippant remarks
    2-XL BGE, 2-LG BGE, KJ Jr, 36" Blackstone, Ardore Pizza Oven
    Follow me on Instagram @hoosier_egger
    Bloomington, IN - Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!
  • jtcBoyntonjtcBoynton Posts: 2,502
    No, but I must have missed that someone was claiming it caused less fuel to be used.  Most of the concerns seem to always be that fuel burn increases/fire burns hotter (do they think it burns hotter without more charcoal burning?).

    In any given situation, it takes a specific amount of BTU to keep a specific temp and it takes a specific size fire to produce that level of BTU.  The KAB does not change those numbers - it only helps to ensure that air flow can get to the fire. Overall, the KAB will not change the amount of charcoal needed for your cooks.
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
  • SciAggieSciAggie Posts: 4,197

    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. 
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
  • stlcharcoalstlcharcoal Posts: 3,979

    • Water injectors use technology that provided emergency power in World War II planes. But tests show this technology doesn't work in automobiles.

    We had that on the early B206 LongRanger helicopters.  Once you hit a certain turbine outlet temp, the water/alcohol injection would kick in.  The TOT would drop, then you could pull more torque.  You didn't have much of that stuff though.  They didn't make too many of the early L's, and then the L1's and later models would usually hit the max torque limits before you'd run out of time in a TOT transitional time or max temp limit.

    If you watch the B52's takeoff, or other older turbojets, a "wet" takeoff is accompanied by a TON of black smoke behind the airplane.  Funny to watch.  Not really needed anymore on modern aircraft since the high bypass turbines are so much more powerful at lower speeds.
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307
    No, but I must have missed that someone was claiming it caused less fuel to be used.  Most of the concerns seem to always be that fuel burn increases/fire burns hotter (do they think it burns hotter without more charcoal burning?).

    In any given situation, it takes a specific amount of BTU to keep a specific temp and it takes a specific size fire to produce that level of BTU.  The KAB does not change those numbers - it only helps to ensure that air flow can get to the fire. Overall, the KAB will not change the amount of charcoal needed for your cooks.
    1voyager said:
    My settings for low and slow haven't changed and I'm using much less lump per cook. KAB has paid for itself many times over.

    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • JNDATHPJNDATHP Posts: 394
    I’m having the opposite. Hard to get temps above about 330. The LGBE is clean. 

    What do do you all do to shake the leftover lump in the KAB so there is more airflow?
    Michael
    Large BGE
    Reno, NV
  • stlcharcoalstlcharcoal Posts: 3,979
    JNDATHP said:
    I’m having the opposite. Hard to get temps above about 330. The LGBE is clean. 

    What do do you all do to shake the leftover lump in the KAB so there is more airflow?
    Shake the ash out, set it back in, then top it off with fresh lump at least above the firebox into the fire ring.  If the airflow is good, you have enough charcoal, then you may have under-kilned charcoal.  Do you have a bunch of white smoke still at 330?
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 31,307
    JNDATHP said:
    I’m having the opposite. Hard to get temps above about 330. The LGBE is clean. 

    What do do you all do to shake the leftover lump in the KAB so there is more airflow?
    I hate when I can't get it up....
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • reinhart36reinhart36 Posts: 253
    I find I get better complete burns of all my charcoal with the KAB, resulting in longer cooks.
  • FlyOverCountryFlyOverCountry Posts: 493
    I only need a single piece of lump for a hole butt with my kick ash basket.  You can’t beat that with a stick.
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