OT We call it football over here

Eoin

The big problem with career average earnings is that these guys generally get no decent education, so where do they go when finished with football?

Foghorn

Yes. I was suggesting that Wenger was one of the rare managers whose job wasn’t on the line every week. 

With that said I suspect that the middle to lesser players sense some of that as well. They must impress when they get a chance to earn the next bout of playing time - and ultimately the next contract.  

I have long wanted to study the top 100 or more 16 year old football players in England and compare how they do in life compared to the top 100 US basketball players or American football players from that age. It would be interesting to see if our artificial wedding of sport and college actually plays out for the players over 5 or more decades of life. 

And I’m sorrry about Palace. Roy’s reaction to the last missed chance said it all. 

Eoin

@Foghorn, what is the general consensus on the college sports system in the US. If I understand correctly, the college system is mandatory and younger players must play in that system? Do they actually get a decent education, or is the sports scholarship merely a semi professional start to a professional career.

Here, the youth system brings players into the club system at a young age and keeps them there, with training regimes that hamper standard education. A lot of 16 year olds will be dropped at that point, having neglected their studies, or will continue for another year or 2 and then get dropped. A small % make it.

Foghorn

The extent to which US college athletes are held to educational standards is inversely proportional to their athletic potential. 

Basketball is the worst. Only one year of college (or some other post high school experience) is required before they are eligible for the NBA. Those who know they will be drafted go to just enough class in the first semester of college to be eligible for the 2nd semester. Then they quit going to class and just play basketball. 

TN_Egger

@Eoin asked: Do they actually get a decent education, or is the sports scholarship merely a semi professional start to a professional career.

Hah!  Where to begin?  The NCAA is a sham and the term student/athlete is a joke.  Schools are using these students to boost revenues. Period.

Foghorn

@TN_Egger, there is some truth to that but that’s not the whole truth. Revenue sports (football and basketball at the top levels) have 1% of the athletes produce the revenue for the other 99% of student athletes who actually meet the definition.  Those kids don't ever go pro in a sport, but they learn a lot of life lessons (teamwork, time management, etc) while playing college sports.  

That doesn't mean that the 1% aren't exploited.  But an old buddy of mine is the head swim coach at Tennessee and those kids get a lot of benefit from college athletics that are funded by the football revenues.  

pgprescott

Acn said:

pgprescott said:

If the NFL continues down its current path this may be an option in the distant future. Ugh!

Come to the dark side 

I truly applaud the passion on display. Just ain’t in me. Who knows, time often changes people. Enjoy. 

CPFC1905

Well thats disappointing but not surprising.  I hope that Zaha gets more protection in future.  It is almost cave-man like to assault the biggest threat - but effective.   He scored, as I suspected he would.  Last season he was booked for diving after similar incidents.

Elsewhere, Burnley don't look like overcoming the European hex and Chelsea showed that quality counts in the end. 

I do hope Spurs win, or more specifically concede none and Eriksen score.  My fantasy football team is just above average so far this week and that would give a smidgeon of a silver lining. 

Foghorn

Well Eriksen didn't score but Spurs really put it on them.

What's the over/under for Mourinho's remaining time at Old Trafford.

CPFC1905

Foghorn said:

Well Eriksen didn't score but Spurs really put it on them.

What's the over/under for Mourinho's remaining time at Old Trafford.

A slightly above average week for my FF team & that was Kane's first goal at Old Trafford.

The longest odds for Jose on the next bus out of Manchester;  11/8 (+137.50) with most offering more or less evens.  

Top three favourites for replacing Jose;
1) Zindene Zidane
2) Antonio Conte
3) Laurent Blanc

No price available for Sam Allardyce ..... yet.

Foghorn

They should have hired Pochettino instead of Mourinho.  They might have gotten him.  At this point, he'd probably prefer to stay with Spurs.

In the long run, they may be better off hanging on to him until they can find a good long term solution - although that's not how the football world thinks.

Foghorn

And no odds on Giggs?

CPFC1905

Foghorn said:

And no odds on Giggs?

I think even he would think thats ambitious.  I suppose this is about whether there is a total breakdown going on or just a loss of form.  Thing is that Jose has done this before, consciously or not - so there's a pattern.

Acn

Are we sure that Zidane is any good?  I mean sure, the 3 CLs in a row, but given the amount of talent at Real, they definitely underperformed domestically.  

I wonder if they'd go for a caretaker for the rest of the season (assuming Mourinho doesn't last) and then try to make a splash with the permanent replacement in the offseason.

CPFC1905

I agree as ZZ isn't tested outside the cosseted Spanish league.  The lack of local competition does permit use of the whole squad, whereas Man City could face three top English teams and have two CL matches inside 21 days.  

Conte seems a better fit to me. It's too soon for a caretaker as players tend to lose faith if the top man is obviously short term. 

Eoin

If Conte gets the Utd job, he gets my admiration for maximum money making ability in a short time frame.

Foghorn

Good question @Acn.  I think Zidane was particularly well-suited for the Real Madrid job because even the biggest ego'd footballer had to respect him - thus allowing him the ability to manage his talent pool extremely well.  

If Man U are going to get back to the top it will take 2+ years and a combination of developing (and keeping) current talent while selectively acquiring new talent.  There aren't many (any?) with a proven track record of success in doing that who aren't already employed.  

Acn

I agree that Zidane was well suited for Madrid, for precisely the reasons you mention.  I'm just not sure that in a league where there is a lot more parity, that situation could get ugly quickly. 

Your second point was one of the reasons I thought caretaker.  Get somebody in who tries to make sure that they finish top 4 and have CL next season, and then figure out a permanent situation in the offseason.  I was actually thinking about Pochettino, I could see United thinking that he might become available if bigger European teams start to pick over Spurs roster.  I suppose the same could be said for Simeone, although they haven't looked great to start the season and he has history with the club.  Also, you have a chance to see who perks up and does better than expected in one of the other leagues.

CPFC1905

The betting market still has Jose as highly likely to get the chop.  Conte is sat at 5/1 (+500) and Poch' at 10/1 (1000).   The latter is buried in the clutches of Mr Levy at Spurs and presumably has his sights on Real Madrid anyway.

For me the real source of this is the club's myopic and protracted love-affair with Sir Alex.  Man U still seem to be flailing about despite his long-over due departure several years ago. He became the club and as we know, no-one is bigger than the club. 

Foghorn

CPFC1905 said:

The betting market still has Jose as highly likely to get the chop.  Conte is sat at 5/1 (+500) and Poch' at 10/1 (1000).   The latter is buried in the clutches of Mr Levy at Spurs and presumably has his sights on Real Madrid anyway.

For me the real source of this is the club's myopic and protracted love-affair with Sir Alex.  Man U still seem to be flailing about despite his long-over due departure several years ago. He became the club and as we know, no-one is bigger than the club. 

I'll have to beg to differ on some aspects of that.  It is true that nobody is bigger than the club.  But if I recall correctly, he only went 2 years without winning the league before he retired - so I don't think his departure was "long overdue".  They may be searching for a unicorn in today's world by thinking that there's another Sir Alex out there.  But that is the model they know as the roadmap for success - a driven manager that is good at all aspects including player identification, player development, player relations, and in-game management... who stays around and is committed to success for multiple decades.  You can't blame them (ok, us) for clinging to that ideal.  That's what made Moyes seem like a reasonable replacement.  

And let's face it, they don't have the biggest budget in the Premier League any longer.  It will take a special manager to beat Pep with a budget that is inferior to his.  If Man U fired Jose today and hired a young Ferguson, they wouldn't win the league this year or next.  But when they might win it in his 3rd year - or whenever Pep decides he is tired of Manchester... depending on how Klopp is doing at Liverpool.

CPFC1905

Foghorn said:

CPFC1905 said:

The betting market still has Jose as highly likely to get the chop.  Conte is sat at 5/1 (+500) and Poch' at 10/1 (1000).   The latter is buried in the clutches of Mr Levy at Spurs and presumably has his sights on Real Madrid anyway.

For me the real source of this is the club's myopic and protracted love-affair with Sir Alex.  Man U still seem to be flailing about despite his long-over due departure several years ago. He became the club and as we know, no-one is bigger than the club. 

I'll have to beg to differ on some aspects of that.  It is true that nobody is bigger than the club.  But if I recall correctly, he only went 2 years without winning the league before he retired - so I don't think his departure was "long overdue".  They may be searching for a unicorn in today's world by thinking that there's another Sir Alex out there.  But that is the model they know as the roadmap for success - a driven manager that is good at all aspects including player identification, player development, player relations, and in-game management... who stays around and is committed to success for multiple decades.  You can't blame them (ok, us) for clinging to that ideal.  That's what made Moyes seem like a reasonable replacement.  

And let's face it, they don't have the biggest budget in the Premier League any longer.  It will take a special manager to beat Pep with a budget that is inferior to his.  If Man U fired Jose today and hired a young Ferguson, they wouldn't win the league this year or next.  But when they might win it in his 3rd year - or whenever Pep decides he is tired of Manchester... depending on how Klopp is doing at Liverpool.

That's all fair comment. We are looking at Man Utd coming to terms with the new order where they are not the biggest players anymore.  Naturally I have very limited sympathy.  
I do feel that Sir Alex's influence stifled future planning to some degree.  Seems that no one was allowed to peak over the horizon until he had fully left the building.  Plug & Play is the new normality at the top.  Expensive and arguably harmful in the long run as it is. 

Foghorn

Smithy may be the answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq_cwwWcyqQ

Acn

RockyTopDW

my wishes look to be coming true.  the gooners are in ninth and Jose will be sacked before October!

CPFC1905

This weekend’s thrills and spills;

Liverpool look to carry on their red-hot streak at the Foxes.  Monolithic Maguire will need to be the big man to both ends if the home side want anything from this match.  Until the CL matches get under way I see little to stop Liverpool at the moment.  As usual a hat-trick from Salah would be lovely for my FF team. 

Brighton and Fulham will politely exchange passes for an hour and a half, one of them might win.  The seaside squad should have enough to keep the newly awakened Fulham at bay,  but it’ll be close I reckon.  By that I actually mean that I hope Brighton lose 100-0, Chris Hughton…….. just read my last forecast post for the rest.

Chelsea + Bournemouth = goooooooaaaaaallllllss.  Thousands of them probably.  6 - 4, 7 - 3, 8 - 8  are all equally unlikely but 3 - 2 is s strong possibility. 

One dimensional Palace were undone by one dimensional Watford last week.  Turns out that if you neuter Palace’s only genuine threat,  they aren’t likely to win.  However - a cunning plan is afoot this week.  One dimensional Palace are hosting no-dimensional Southampton.  I’ll be honest, I don’t see Big Ben(teke) smashing in a hat-trick, but a narrow win will do just fine thanks.  (PVA, Luke and Zaha to score to help my parlous FF team out.  Honestly, who picks those players.  Oh, hang on)

Huddersfield just have not turned up this season and may be that's as good as it gets.  Three games in to this, the ‘tricky second album’ of a season.  There is the whiff of busted flush about them at the moment.  Everton must, must, must keep a clean sheet.  Pickford has given me nothing for my FF team - damn that effervescent man-boy and his athletic but sub-six foot stature. 

West Ham and Wolves will be of interest.  A home defeat will see the annual ‘open revolt amongst the fans and players’ coming somewhat sooner than usual.  It is very much possible too.  If perky impish Wolves score early - or, its 0-0 going in tot he 85th minute,  things will get tetchy.  Lets hope for a 1-0 home defeat just for the entertainment value. 

Man City, although not being from London and therefore not part of the ‘cockney mafia’ sent to Newcastle to ruin all Geordies lives, are not who the Toon Army wanted to see next.  A ponderous start to the season and an ignominious departure from a meaningless cup mid-week mean things is not great up in that there northern land. 

They might get a draw,  they might get proper humped 8 - 0.   In fact they probably will.

Also on Saturday, the jewel tie of the Championship is the West Mids (ish) / M6 derby of West Brom v Stoke.  This match was played nearly one year ago today, when both teams were in the PL. Everyones favourite awkward gangly smiley bloke, Peter Crouch, getting the equaliser for a 1-1.  Could be the same tomorrow, but Stoke have sparked in to life and even their striker Saido Berahino scored mid-week in the cup after a two year sabbatical. A sabbatical from goal-scoring, not football.  No-one was more surprised than him.  Not even the fella who,  in the same match shanked an own goal from the half-way line.  Stupendous. (  See here, from 15 secs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsRmhOohUA  )

Sunday brings us the majesty of Arsenal touring the far west by allowing Cardiff a sight of their gilded beauties in the flesh.   The Gunners will stroke the ball about while recounting tracts of philosophy.  Inevitably this will cause them to become confused and keep missing the goal, or more precisely the goal becoming obscured from view by logic and a bunch of dramatically less urbane defenders.  ‘One Nil to the Are - Sen - All’ was once the chant.  It might be again on Sunday.  I suspect that Mr Warnock sees it differently and will apply all manner of old school techniques to give The Arsenal a good learning. 

Ooooh Burnley Man U.  Is this a game of least worst wins?  Will Ed Woodward be caught in a compromising position trying to lure Dyche to the slightly less grim part of Lancashire?  Burnley are now shorn of their European commitments (hurrah they sing) and will likely revert to their ‘finish about 10th’ predicted trajectory.  As for Moan U (yes that's how they are known here) well, let's be honest  - a win is but a stay of execution or like a rubber bone to a dog. What would you say to two friends in a relationship on the verge of collapse?  Well apply that to this situation. 

I hope that Spurs give Watford a right good going over.  I doubt it, but I think they are a better team and will win. I suspect it’s unlikely that Kane et al will be kicked in the air non-stop like Zaha,  but that's because Watford are all  cowards, swines and wretches.  Them and their ‘Harry the Hornet’ mascot.   6 - 0 to Spurs and three red cards for Watford (using the non-existent carry forward rule from last week that I just made up) 

Happy Days and Oi Oi Saveloy to you all.

CPFC1905

Come on Mo'  -   at least get an assist!  Its a cake walk and my FF team needs the points......

Foghorn

Your weekly write-ups are good stuff - especially to those of us across the pond.  Keep them coming.

Your observations seem spot on - even if the players don't always oblige.

Foghorn

An American scored a goal in the Premier League for the first time in 4 years. So there’s that. 

Acn

Foghorn said:

An American scored a goal in the Premier League for the first time in 4 years. So there’s that. 

Seemed appropriate that it happened the first weekend after Dempsey retired.

Foghorn

Acn said:

Foghorn said:

An American scored a goal in the Premier League for the first time in 4 years. So there’s that. 

Seemed appropriate that it happened the first weekend after Dempsey retired.

Yep. 

And we wonder why our national team isn’t any good.