OT Ancestry.com OT

TEXASBGE2018

lkapigian said:

Massage Parlors in my town collect DNA all the time, thinking they might work for the government as well?

Wrong government. I believe they are with the Chinese or maybe Vietnam government.

The Cen-Tex Smoker

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

TEXASBGE2018

Kinda proves the point some of us have been trying to make. They claim the didn’t know and yet the police somehow obtained the data anyways. It’s a slippery slope. https://m.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Use-of-DNA-in-serial-killer-probe-sparks-privacy-12868330.php

JohnEggGio

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

GATraveller

Nothing askew. I stated that the government accessed the database and I wasn't surprised. 

Botch

TEXASBGE2018 said:

...what do you think the best computer hackers in the world that work for the NSA and CIA and FBI are doing? 

Not to belittle your post, but to add some "inside information":  the "best" don't work for us, in the guv'mint; we can't afford them!  
There are at least 4 IT job positions for the federal government that offer starting pay at the GS-15 level, straight out of college!  (I've been in for 35 years, only a GS-13, and make 6 figures).  Even the young kids that we do hire, generally get between 6 and 12 months experience and are hired away by for-profit companies.    
In countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc, kids with this kind of aptitude are identified early, schooled appropriately, and set to work in this area, whether they want to or not (and they're not making GS-15 pay, bet on it).  We may be in a lot of trouble, very soon, in types of attacks we haven't seen before.  
How do we fight this?  Beats the heck out of me....  

Botch

JohnEggGio said:
...isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  

It was, but that regulation was in the third stack, about halfway down...  
 

 

lkapigian

Ok, i admit i googled gs pay scale

dopey

 (I've been in for 35 years, only a GS-13, and make 6 figures).  

Thats some bull&hit.  How would I be able to afford a BGE on that salary???

JohnEggGio

Botch said:

JohnEggGio said:
...isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  

It was, but that regulation was in the third stack, about halfway down...  
 

 

You got me, bro...  

Botch

dopey said:

 (I've been in for 35 years, only a GS-13, and make 6 figures).  

Thats some bull&hit.  How would I be able to afford a BGE on that salary???

Stay single.  

Fred19Flintstone

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

Ozzie_Isaac

This seems apropos

https://youtu.be/D7oXFmuUHLQ

HeavyG

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

Yeah...cuz the free market, left to its own devices, would bring about a perfect world.

What a pile of buffalo chips.

Fred19Flintstone

So your solution is gubmint running everything?  Put out that joint, hippie.  You've had enough.

Ozzie_Isaac

Fred19Flintstone said:

So your solution is gubmint running everything?  Put out that joint, hippy.  You've had enough.

Free markets goal is to eliminate costs (payouts) and maximize income (fees). To provide unimaginable wealth for the few who own everything. They will absolutely use DNA against you.  Soon it will be a requirement for insurance.

Governments goal is to control every single aspect of our life, and provide unimaginable luxuries for those in power.

Neither by itself is ideal.  You need some of each to limit the other.  Like a child playing each parent off the other.

Wolfpack

Botch said:

Not to belittle your post, but to add some "inside information":  the "best" don't work for us, in the guv'mint; we can't afford them!  
There are at least 4 IT job positions for the federal government that offer starting pay at the GS-15 level, straight out of college!  (I've been in for 35 years, only a GS-13, and make 6 figures).  Even the young kids that we do hire, generally get between 6 and 12 months experience and are hired away by for-profit companies.    
In countries like Russia, China, North Korea, etc, kids with this kind of aptitude are identified early, schooled appropriately, and set to work in this area, whether they want to or not (and they're not making GS-15 pay, bet on it).  We may be in a lot of trouble, very soon, in types of attacks we haven't seen before.  
How do we fight this?  Beats the heck out of me....  

I spent some time with a retired 3 star this past week and he had an interesting informed position on this topic. 

His comments boiled down to we made a fundamental mistake early on by taking the defensive tactic on hacking. Yes I know there are a few cases where we inserted some bugs but far and large we have been passive. He said we needed to treat this like any other battlefield and have the best offensive weapons and quickly. 

JohnEggGio

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

Fred19Flintstone

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

DMW

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

Sounds like a good reason to implement single payer.

pgprescott

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

So your solution is gubmint running everything?  Put out that joint, hippy.  You've had enough.

Free markets goal is to eliminate costs (payouts) and maximize income (fees). To provide unimaginable wealth for the few who own everything. They will absolutely use DNA against you.  Soon it will be a requirement for insurance.

Governments goal is to control every single aspect of our life, and provide unimaginable luxuries for those in power.

Neither by itself is ideal.  You need some of each to limit the other.  Like a child playing each parent off the other.

If the science is real and accurate and the risk computation is correct, how is it used against you? Sounds like it’s being drilled down. Now, the flip side is that they should reduce the cost for those not at risk. It’s really not much different than assumptions made on someone’s weight. No??

Ozzie_Isaac

pgprescott said: 22.5x3

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

So your solution is gubmint running everything?  Put out that joint, hippy.  You've had enough.

Free markets goal is to eliminate costs (payouts) and maximize income (fees). To provide unimaginable wealth for the few who own everything. They will absolutely use DNA against you.  Soon it will be a requirement for insurance.

Governments goal is to control every single aspect of our life, and provide unimaginable luxuries for those in power.

Neither by itself is ideal.  You need some of each to limit the other.  Like a child playing each parent off the other.

If the science is real and accurate and the risk computation is correct, how is it used against you? Sounds like it’s being drilled down. Now, the flip side is that they should reduce the cost for those not at risk. It’s really not much different than assumptions made on someone’s weight. No??

You have control of your weight and lifestyle choices.  You do not control DNA.

A 2 year old girl's DNA is checked and she has the breast cancer markers.  Should she be denied health insurance? Now she has a death sentence and her family has a bankrupcy sentence? 

DoubleEgger

DMW said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

Sounds like a good reason to implement single payer.

Yeah, the VA does such an outstanding job...

HeavyG

DoubleEgger said:

DMW said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

Sounds like a good reason to implement single payer.

Yeah, the VA does such an outstanding job...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/harlankrumholz/2014/05/23/3-things-to-know-before-you-rush-to-judgment-about-va-health-system/#69cbedc855e4

DoubleEgger

HeavyG said:

DoubleEgger said:

DMW said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

Sounds like a good reason to implement single payer.

Yeah, the VA does such an outstanding job...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/harlankrumholz/2014/05/23/3-things-to-know-before-you-rush-to-judgment-about-va-health-system/#69cbedc855e4

I have many Purple Heart friends and their first hand accounts of their experiences at the VA are mind blowing. I don’t need some Forbes article to sugar coat the travesties my friends have gone through. My friends were EOD guys so we aren’t talking about paper cuts here. 

pgprescott

Ozzie_Isaac said:

pgprescott said: 22.5x3

Ozzie_Isaac said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

So your solution is gubmint running everything?  Put out that joint, hippy.  You've had enough.

Free markets goal is to eliminate costs (payouts) and maximize income (fees). To provide unimaginable wealth for the few who own everything. They will absolutely use DNA against you.  Soon it will be a requirement for insurance.

Governments goal is to control every single aspect of our life, and provide unimaginable luxuries for those in power.

Neither by itself is ideal.  You need some of each to limit the other.  Like a child playing each parent off the other.

If the science is real and accurate and the risk computation is correct, how is it used against you? Sounds like it’s being drilled down. Now, the flip side is that they should reduce the cost for those not at risk. It’s really not much different than assumptions made on someone’s weight. No??

You have control of your weight and lifestyle choices.  You do not control DNA.

A 2 year old girl's DNA is checked and she has the breast cancer markers.  Should she be denied health insurance? Now she has a death sentence and her family has a bankrupcy sentence? 

I thought we were talking life insurance. However, insurance in general is a huge factor in driving inflation in healthcare. It is not an issue of fair or even right. It’s a tough one. 

caliking

All of this looks like bored folks looking for something to do.

 Checked the Ancestry website out and it seems to be promoted as some sort of "travel the world according to your DNA!" kind of schtick. 

If I've lived my life to date not knowing I'm related to some people, i'm fine with living the rest of it not knowing who they are.

As far as "predicting" my chance of being afflicted with certain diseases, WTF would I want to do that??

HeavyG

DoubleEgger said:

HeavyG said:

DoubleEgger said:

DMW said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

Fred19Flintstone said:

JohnEggGio said:

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

JohnEggGio said:

Just saying, if identifying my dna as being from a 3rd cousin of a serial killer helps identify and apprehend the bastard, I think I’m ok with that.

right- but what if it helps your insurer alert to the fact that you are at risk for cancer or diabetes because your 3rd aunt has it? 

Isn’t it true that I can’t be denied coverage or charged higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions?  But you fear I could because a distant aunt had a disease?  I may be naive, but I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but if you think the gubmint is here to help you, then hahhahhaahahaha!  BTW,  I work for da gubmint so I know a thing or two about policy, boondoggles and how how it all ends up screwing people.  Healthcare is no different than other things da gubmint has their mitts in contrary to the public's benefit.  When gubmint gets involved, costs sharply rise and the quality sharply falls.

I don’t think I said anything akin to what you seem to think I said.

What did you say?  You're putting your trust in a gubmint regulation about pre-existing conditions.  As far as insurance companies go, if they can find a reason to deny coverage after getting their money or hike your rates or drop your a$$ after a big claim, they'll do it.  DNA, I believe, is the next thing they'll want to further scrutinize you to see if you're a bad risk.

Sounds like a good reason to implement single payer.

Yeah, the VA does such an outstanding job...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/harlankrumholz/2014/05/23/3-things-to-know-before-you-rush-to-judgment-about-va-health-system/#69cbedc855e4

I have many Purple Heart friends and their first hand accounts of their experiences at the VA are mind blowing. I don’t need some Forbes article to sugar coat the travesties my friends have gone through. My friends were EOD guys so we aren’t talking about paper cuts here. 

People **** and moan about hospitals all the time. Doesn't matter whether it is the VA or private sector.

I've known plenty of folks that have gotten good and timely care from both military hospitals and VA hospitals. I personally spent three weeks in Bethesda Naval Hospital when I was a kid for heart surgery. My father (USN 30+ years, Purple Heart) got good care from Naval Hospitals.

Personal anecdotes don't really matter. One has to look at the overall data. Certainly the VA has problems, just like the private hospitals in many areas of the US.

The problems at the VA are not going to be fixed by any POTUS. The responsibility falls to Congress. Perhaps one day they'll come up with a solution to all these problems.

Botch

You can't really lump all guv'mint programs into one bucket, you just can't.
 
I lived under socialized medicine for 26 years, by the US guv'mint, and received excellent care, some expensive treatments that I wouldn't have been able to afford myself, and almost no waiting, most of the time.  How?  Active-duty military.  AND the DoD medical system is widely (maybe not so widely) known for its efficiency and low cost.
 
BUT, there's another socialized medicine program, also by the US guv'mint, mentioned above, the hideous VA.  We all know how well that program is going.  
 
And I'm not saying the DoD does everything well, either.  We all know about weapon system cost overruns, money that "disappears" overseas, even something as simple as a decent, low-cost PT uniform: 
 

 
(that uniform was so badly made, uncomfortable, and restrictive, that we were actually allowed to do our annual run/PT tests in "civilian" gym gear!)
 
There's too much money going into guv'mint, just to get folks elected, and I think you can trace ANY problem back to a law or a decision based not on what's good for the country, but who benefits from that law/decision.  Go ahead and mock me, but this is one subject on which Bernie was, and is, 100% correct.   

theyolksonyou

Good god. I haven't even started drinking yet and I can't stand all these words!