OT Mountain Time 1 image OT

YukonRon

Wolfpack said:

YukonRon said:

Found an amazing wine source in Boulder. Great selection killer prices with verticals.

That rombauer chard is really hard to beat. 

The phrase "often imitated never duplicated" comes to mind. 

IMHO it's one of the best examples of a buttery Chardonnay (at a reasonable price point).

With all of that said I now think I noticed a little red at the end of that cork...

It is very hard to beat, for a buttery chard. We did frogs leap for chard, and I think you may enjoy it very much, as well. Rhombauer was a Red Zin. Good eye for wine my friend.

YukonRon

chuckytheegghead said:

Congratulations. Very nice write up. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us and thanks for the pictures as well. 

Thank you for the kind words. It means a lot to me when someone (anyone) finds value in what I write.
I appreciate your time you invested in reading my write up.

Spaightlabs

Another deadly accident on Capitol Peak

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/27/climber-dies-capitol-peak-aspen/

The deadly Bells have been quiet this year - hoping that doesn't change...

YukonRon

Spaightlabs said:

Another deadly accident on Capitol Peak

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/27/climber-dies-capitol-peak-aspen/

The deadly Bells have been quiet this year - hoping that doesn't change...

@Spaightlabs
Thanks for the heads up. I have to think the lack of air and exhaustion that comes with it had to effect the judgement used.
The first two times I did the climb, I did it with folks that had done it before. I have never done it alone or without a rope, and never took a step until everyone was secure. When I took a group up my last trip, It was intense, because none of the other 3 had done it before. 
I did read about the climbing accident this morning. The climber took the wrong turn against his partners advice, and went off the cliff, to the best of my understanding.
I think this year Capitol has taken more lives than it has in the last 29 years, combined (I think, although I may be off with my records).
On Crestone there is a metal sign that tells you not to go a certain direction. I really think they, we, I, should get one for Capitol regarding the cliffs. There is one standard route up and back, dangerous as hell to beginners. If there was a faster and easier way, we would all know it by now.
My condolences to the family and loved ones of the deceased.
I have a habit of memorizing the trail and the map, and take a topo and compass everytime I go. I am a belt and suspenders type of guy. I have been fortunate thus far.
Thank you very much for the communication on this. Appreciate it.

northGAcock

YukonRon said:

Spaightlabs said:

Another deadly accident on Capitol Peak

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/27/climber-dies-capitol-peak-aspen/

The deadly Bells have been quiet this year - hoping that doesn't change...

@Spaightlabs
Thanks for the heads up. I have to think the lack of air and exhaustion that comes with it had to effect the judgement used.
The first two times I did the climb, I did it with folks that had done it before. I have never done it alone or without a rope, and never took a step until everyone was secure. When I took a group up my last trip, It was intense, because none of the other 3 had done it before. 
I did read about the climbing accident this morning. The climber took the wrong turn against his partners advice, and went off the cliff, to the best of my understanding.
I think this year Capitol has taken more lives than it has in the last 29 years, combined (I think, although I may be off with my records).
On Crestone there is a metal sign that tells you not to go a certain direction. I really think they, we, I, should get one for Capitol regarding the cliffs. There is one standard route up and back, dangerous as hell to beginners. If there was a faster and easier way, we would all know it by now.
My condolences to the family and loved ones of the deceased.
I have a habit of memorizing the trail and the map, and take a topo and compass everytime I go. I am a belt and suspenders type of guy. I have been fortunate thus far.
Thank you very much for the communication on this. Appreciate it.

Ron, If you go again, is it too soon to put dibs in on the Extra Large?

Foghorn

Great write-up and pic(s).  I had the occasion to meet Ed Viesturs a few years ago and hear him speak.  Based on your description of your approach you seem to have a similar philosophy.

YukonRon

northGAcock said:

YukonRon said:

Spaightlabs said:

Another deadly accident on Capitol Peak

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/27/climber-dies-capitol-peak-aspen/

The deadly Bells have been quiet this year - hoping that doesn't change...

@Spaightlabs
Thanks for the heads up. I have to think the lack of air and exhaustion that comes with it had to effect the judgement used.
The first two times I did the climb, I did it with folks that had done it before. I have never done it alone or without a rope, and never took a step until everyone was secure. When I took a group up my last trip, It was intense, because none of the other 3 had done it before. 
I did read about the climbing accident this morning. The climber took the wrong turn against his partners advice, and went off the cliff, to the best of my understanding.
I think this year Capitol has taken more lives than it has in the last 29 years, combined (I think, although I may be off with my records).
On Crestone there is a metal sign that tells you not to go a certain direction. I really think they, we, I, should get one for Capitol regarding the cliffs. There is one standard route up and back, dangerous as hell to beginners. If there was a faster and easier way, we would all know it by now.
My condolences to the family and loved ones of the deceased.
I have a habit of memorizing the trail and the map, and take a topo and compass everytime I go. I am a belt and suspenders type of guy. I have been fortunate thus far.
Thank you very much for the communication on this. Appreciate it.

Ron, If you go again, is it too soon to put dibs in on the Extra Large?

How about if I don't return, you will get it?

we can work something out I am sure....

northGAcock

I want you back in one piece....I have all the eggs I need.

YukonRon

Foghorn said:

Great write-up and pic(s).  I had the occasion to meet Ed Viesturs a few years ago and hear him speak.  Based on your description of your approach you seem to have a similar philosophy.

@Foghorn

EV is the best we have ever had, from the USA. I will definitly point to him as a mentor while I toy with all the small mountains around here. Highest I have been is Mt Blanc from France, and I am sure he could do that with a small pack of M&Ms.

I am very careful, and have been within less than 10 meters from a summit, and turned around. It is a beautiful view, and another opportunity to go back and get it later. Thinking of a bag and a basket, keeps me motivated for safety first.

I do not know if you have seen my 1997 POS Ford Eddie Bauer Expedition, (which I use for camping and goofing around as long as I can keep it running) but I have mounted on the top, an older recovery litter, I picked up at a SAR auction several years ago. It helps to remind me to always be as safe as I can, and always make sure the others with you are as dialed in as can be.

Many folks HATE climbing with me because I question their fundamentals, almost constantly, just to make sure they are concentrating on "getting back down." (another EV: "Getting to the top is optional, getting back down is mandatory.")

Whether you know it or not, that was an extremely humbling compliment you gave me, and I really appreciate your kind words. 

Just to be clear, the peaks I bag is like playing in a sandbox for him.

Thank you for reading this post.

YukonRon

northGAcock said:

I want you back in one piece....I have all the eggs I need.

I am still recovering from the climb.
  
The older you get, unfortunately, at least for me, the longer it takes.

I still have the occasional wheezing cough, from a little bit of fluid left in my lungs, and adding to the misery of a fried face (because I was too stupid to keep applying sunscreen), I tried shaving yesterday. Results were not cool, which indicates how easy for me it is to take being a dumbasz to a whole new level.

My face and lips looked pretty bad from exposure (not that they ever looked great, by a long shot, to begin with). Shaving makes me look like a monster. I am thinking another couple of days and all will be well. At least to shave anyway, SMDH.

I wont be back to Colorado until next year, so maybe, I will be able to hold a lottery with you all prior to leaving, in case I do not return, for my BGE's.

It will help me remain focused.

NC_Egghead

Great post Ron! You have a very eloquent way with words. My mountaineering has only brought me up to 12,400, which I did twice; once in '11 with my son who was 17 at the time, and then again last year with some good friends. It takes more preparation and planning than most people are willing to put in. We hiked for a number of days to get to the base of the mountain (Baldy Mtn, 2nd highest peak in NM) which really conditioned us for the task. This was probably THE most difficult thing I have done in my lifetime, TWICE! Can't imagine 14's! Glad you and Suzy are home safe. I wish you a speedy recovery. 

Foghorn

YukonRon said:

Foghorn said:

Great write-up and pic(s).  I had the occasion to meet Ed Viesturs a few years ago and hear him speak.  Based on your description of your approach you seem to have a similar philosophy.

@Foghorn

EV is the best we have ever had, from the USA. I will definitly point to him as a mentor while I toy with all the small mountains around here. Highest I have been is Mt Blanc from France, and I am sure he could do that with a small pack of M&Ms.

I am very careful, and have been within less than 10 meters from a summit, and turned around. It is a beautiful view, and another opportunity to go back and get it later. Thinking of a bag and a basket, keeps me motivated for safety first.

I do not know if you have seen my 1997 POS Ford Eddie Bauer Expedition, (which I use for camping and goofing around as long as I can keep it running) but I have mounted on the top, an older recovery litter, I picked up at a SAR auction several years ago. It helps to remind me to always be as safe as I can, and always make sure the others with you are as dialed in as can be.

Many folks HATE climbing with me because I question their fundamentals, almost constantly, just to make sure they are concentrating on "getting back down." (another EV: "Getting to the top is optional, getting back down is mandatory.")

Whether you know it or not, that was an extremely humbling compliment you gave me, and I really appreciate your kind words. 

Just to be clear, the peaks I bag is like playing in a sandbox for him.

Thank you for reading this post.

It was definitely intended as a compliment.  After having dinner with @nolaegghead last week and talking to him I was convinced you are a douche, but I try to find something positive in everyone.  

I'd probably like climbing with you.  The most I've ever done is what one might call mountain "hiking" with a little bouldering thrown in.  

YukonRon

NC_Egghead said:

Great post Ron! You have a very eloquent way with words. My mountaineering has only brought me up to 12,400, which I did twice; once in '11 with my son who was 17 at the time, and then again last year with some good friends. It takes more preparation and planning than most people are willing to put in. We hiked for a number of days to get to the base of the mountain (Baldy Mtn, 2nd highest peak in NM) which really conditioned us for the task. This was probably THE most difficult thing I have done in my lifetime, TWICE! Can't imagine 14's! Glad you and Suzy are home safe. I wish you a speedy recovery. 

Thank you for the kind words and well wishes. Suzy has recovered nicely, it is only I, that remains a little inconvenienced from the climb.

It is peculiar, but females are not as adversely effected as males with altitude sickness. It has been a known fact for decades, and studied intensely, during that time, but as yet, nobody knows why. Just superior to us, I suppose.

The fact that you hiked for several days, to get to the climb of 12,400 ft ASL, is all I need to know about how difficult that had to be. That had to be such a gratifying result once you summited, both times. Well done sir, I am very impressed.

It is my opinion, based on my experience, that elevation begins to have adverse effects, although minor, around 8-9K, and at 10K, the breathing battle is just beggining. 11K it gets harder, and 12-15K it is a brutal task to hike/climb while trying to breathe. Anything above 18K is called the Death Zone, and for the life of me, I have no idea how anyone can go that high without oxygen assistance. Yet, people climbed Everest and K2, without it. That is just as unbelievable as it is amazing, for me.

I absolutely agree with you on preparing. It is a must. Mental and physical readiness for these opportunities remain the difference between a successful attempt, and a potential tragic result.

I am not a great climber, or even a good climber. I am, however, as safe a climber as I can be.

The fact that you have done a 12er, twice, because they are just as difficult as a 14er, makes me want to do a hike and climb with you someday. 

When you know, you know, then you know that you know. If you think you know, you don't know.

12ers twice, you know. Congrats my friend. You rock.

YukonRon

Foghorn said:

YukonRon said:

Foghorn said:

Great write-up and pic(s).  I had the occasion to meet Ed Viesturs a few years ago and hear him speak.  Based on your description of your approach you seem to have a similar philosophy.

@Foghorn

EV is the best we have ever had, from the USA. I will definitly point to him as a mentor while I toy with all the small mountains around here. Highest I have been is Mt Blanc from France, and I am sure he could do that with a small pack of M&Ms.

I am very careful, and have been within less than 10 meters from a summit, and turned around. It is a beautiful view, and another opportunity to go back and get it later. Thinking of a bag and a basket, keeps me motivated for safety first.

I do not know if you have seen my 1997 POS Ford Eddie Bauer Expedition, (which I use for camping and goofing around as long as I can keep it running) but I have mounted on the top, an older recovery litter, I picked up at a SAR auction several years ago. It helps to remind me to always be as safe as I can, and always make sure the others with you are as dialed in as can be.

Many folks HATE climbing with me because I question their fundamentals, almost constantly, just to make sure they are concentrating on "getting back down." (another EV: "Getting to the top is optional, getting back down is mandatory.")

Whether you know it or not, that was an extremely humbling compliment you gave me, and I really appreciate your kind words. 

Just to be clear, the peaks I bag is like playing in a sandbox for him.

Thank you for reading this post.

It was definitely intended as a compliment.  After having dinner with @nolaegghead last week and talking to him I was convinced you are a douche, but I try to find something positive in everyone.  

I'd probably like climbing with you.  The most I've ever done is what one might call mountain "hiking" with a little bouldering thrown in.  

Do not take @nolaegghead character assessment lightly. I am sure he was cutting me a lot of slack. I am worse than his kind words may have implied.

The fact that you are out there, and interested is all I need to know. I would welcome you anytime we would be able to work it out.

I am fat, slow and ugly, and those are my good qualities. Add to that a left leg any intelligent person would not try hiking with, and you got the total package of a hiking/climbing partner that is me.

I believe it would be fun. I am in.

YukonRon

Anyone try this new flavor from Cliff Bars yet?
I like it.

Spaightlabs

Not to be contrary (even though I am contrary by nature) but most consider the death zone to be in the neighborhood of 8000 meters that is the altitude at which your body can no longer theoretically adapt and at which life is not sustainable long term without support.  Below that the body is capable of acclimatizing and adapting.

Good article here  http://scholar.colorado.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1966&context=honr_theses refuting the 'old saw about women being less susceptible to AMS/HAPE/HACE.  It was a young woman who died here recently at a relatively low altitude on the way to Conundrum...

GATraveller

Well said @YukonRon .  I appreciate this more than you know as it brings back memories of my time living in Glacier National Park.  D@mn I miss it.

Spaightlabs

@GATraveller - did you live in the park or in Whitefish area?

In my mind Glacier is the gem of the Nat Park System - absolutely love that place.

YukonRon

@Spaightlabs
Thank you for the insight. I appreciate your passion. 

If you think 8000 m ASL is the absolte dead zone, bless your soul. Death at any elevation is absolute, but I understand what you were trying to point out, contrary to my previous statement. And for that, well done.

I am sure the body will shut down completely at the altitude you had mentioned, however it begins much, much lower, and the longer the exposure at those elevations, the more likely death will, not may, occur when CLIMBING.

I referred to 18,000 feet as the death zone, as a non acclimated hiker/climber.

Originally I was not wanting to burn up a lot of time or space for your comment, as you have the need to feel it is important to add, and it was.

I now, also, feel the need  to provide information you likely know, or have access to, just to make others aware of why climbers and hikers have identified 18,000 ft as the death zone, for their safety, should they wish to do a mountain or two in the coming years.

However if you know much about Hypoxia, and the physics of gas laws, specific to the human body, as well as the stress in climbing at elevation with temperature difference,  and other weather extremes, you would understand the 18000 ft threshold being labeled as the elevation where death is likely to occur amongst those experts which have devoted their lives to this sport.

I quote them.

At 5000 feet, your organs begin to suffer. As an example the retina of the eye is more demanding of oxygen than most, if not all, of the organs in the body, even the brain, which demands 30% of the supply. I learned this in jump school and most of the information I will provide will be from my experience in training, and Hypoxia studies done for various other projects, as well as the expert climbers from around the world.

You need to know, and perhaps you already do,
although the partial pressure of oxygen, in the atmosphere, decreases somewhat less than linear with increasing altitude, the hemoglobin's ability to combine with oxygen is a more deadly curve. This property of Hemoglobin wears heavily on oxygen requirements at altitude.

10,000 ft - night vision is degraded 25%, blood saturation has dropped to 90%, and your brain is receiving the absolute minimum supply of oxygen. This is the absolute highest you should have any trust in your performance, even though judgement will be severely compromised.

14,000 feet - Blood oxygen saturation is down to a dangerous 85%.  

16,000 feet - Your blood saturation is down to 79%. You are irrational, unreliable and dangerous to those you are with.

18,000 feet - You are incapable of any useful function, even though you may feel great. Blood saturation is at 71%, and your brain is suffering, many pass out at this level in about 30 minutes. Not great to be on a side of a mountain, not acclmated.

This is why it is known as the death zone.

Climbing a mountain, increases the stress on your body, exponetially. In the climbing circles, the danger is everywhere at any elevation. I am specifically speaking about  from 5000 feet up.

So I understand your need to establish where death will occur, but as you have seen, in the recent deaths, sub 15,000 ft., you do not have to be at 25000 feet to die, the lack of oxygen is killing you long before that elevation is even realized.

As far as the young lady being the victim of HAPE, she is the exception and not the rule.
NASA and other institutions, globally, have volumes of data which indicate that Females perform better than males in low air pressure.

FWIW ........She also ignored a pre existing condition, which may have had some impact, on her subcoming to pulmonary edema at high altitudes. I have no idea, but her death should be enough to verify my point about the danger associated with high altitude.

Thank you for reading and commenting on my post.

Anytime you wish to lace them up tight with me and go up, let me know. Be happy to have you up there.

Peace.

YukonRon

GATraveller said:

Well said @YukonRon .  I appreciate this more than you know as it brings back memories of my time living in Glacier National Park.  D@mn I miss it.

You are the most fortunate man I know. I am so envious. I absolutely understand the missing, it is like a black hole that can't be filled with anything else. I loved it up there. I will return someday.
Thank you for the kind words.

GATraveller

Spaightlabs said:

@GATraveller - did you live in the park or in Whitefish area?

In my mind Glacier is the gem of the Nat Park System - absolutely love that place.

I worked for St. Mary's Lodge at the Eastern entrance @ Going to the Sun Road. I'd put it up there at the top of my list of most beautiful places in the lower 48 for sure.  I'd live in Whitefish but no way the wife could do winters.

GATraveller

YukonRon said:

GATraveller said:

Well said @YukonRon .  I appreciate this more than you know as it brings back memories of my time living in Glacier National Park.  D@mn I miss it.

You are the most fortunate man I know. I am so envious. I absolutely understand the missing, it is like a black hole that can't be filled with anything else. I loved it up there. I will return someday.
Thank you for the kind words.

It absolutely is......so blessed to have had the opportunity. Lotta miles on those boots and some great backcountry tales from those carefree days. Denver all the way up to Banff is incredible. I'm such a mountain person at heart even though I'm in Atlanta and it never goes away.

YukonRon

GATraveller said:

YukonRon said:

GATraveller said:

Well said @YukonRon .  I appreciate this more than you know as it brings back memories of my time living in Glacier National Park.  D@mn I miss it.

You are the most fortunate man I know. I am so envious. I absolutely understand the missing, it is like a black hole that can't be filled with anything else. I loved it up there. I will return someday.
Thank you for the kind words.

It absolutely is......so blessed to have had the opportunity. Lotta miles on those boots and some great backcountry tales from those carefree days. Denver all the way up to Banff is incredible. I'm such a mountain person at heart even though I'm in Atlanta and it never goes away.

@GATraveller
I get it brother. I totally get it. I was born and raised in the shadows of the Appalachian Mountains, and got to work as a kid in the National Forest. I was taught many things by the Forest Rangers, from trail building, triangulation in the fire towers, rappelling off the cliffs, you name it. But the one thing they all said to me was "Go to the Great Nortwest."
They mentioned all the parks and forests, told me about the mountains of the Rockies, and told me that is where I needed to be. I dreamed about one day being out there. I will never lose that desire to be in the mountains and forests. It is what I am.

Spaightlabs

@YukonRon good write up on the events that resulted in the unfortunate demise of a 21 year old on Cap.

http://www.vaildaily.com/news/man-who-died-on-capitol-peak-likely-chose-similar-route-as-aspen-couple-who-died-6-days-before/

As is often typical, a daisy chain or cascade of smaller errors at several decision points.

YukonRon

Spaightlabs said:

@YukonRon good write up on the events that resulted in the unfortunate demise of a 21 year old on Cap.

http://www.vaildaily.com/news/man-who-died-on-capitol-peak-likely-chose-similar-route-as-aspen-couple-who-died-6-days-before/

That side of the mountain is dangerous as it can be.

There is too much rock shedding going on, over there, on that side, from cracks and erosion, to ever provide stable footing, to even think about attempting a successful descent.

What used to be a dangerous path, off trail, years ago, has turned deadly this year.

As mentioned before, a sign needs to go up telling them they will die if they use any other route up or down that mountain.

They did it at the Crestone, with far fewer fatalities, why not on Cap?

Spaightlabs

They are looking at more signage of some sort now.  The Pitkin Co Sherrif will likely take it upon himself to do so and in this circumstance I think all but the most intense retro-grouches will  support it.  There doesn't't need to be a sign every 5 feet, but a couple well-placed skull and crossbones could do wonders. We used to use those for folks leaving the ski area at certain spots and on some inbounds closures at Vail.  Also seems to work well at Jackson at critical decision points...

YukonRon

$1000.00 of signs may prevent more needless tragedies. Worth it. If not, Darwin will take over. It blows my mind, the risk people take, without knowledge of their environment. 

Let me know if you see, or hear, of a fund that will be put in place to support the signage. I will contribute. I have supported the local SAR teams and the CFI with donations for years, this just makes sense to do. I may reach out on my own, to a couple orgs, I have worked with in the past, to see if they have any plans on initiating some sort of program, today.

A very sad year. I had planned on this last 14er to be my final summit in Colorado. It may very well be. I say that each tme, but I am not intelligent enough to quit.

Too many people making it too risky for others. On our last trip, as simple (up and back) as Grays is perceived to be, some younger man, decided to go off trail and take a short cut, and fell on the loose rock above me and some others on the descent. (He had a couple of cuts and some bruises, but overall, he was able to get down on his own) In the process, caused several large rocks to start falling towards those beneath his elevation, nearly causing a landslide. Thank goodness someone had the wherewithal to scream out "rockslide!" to give us a warning. 

It is difficult enough to summit 14ers without having to play "mario brothers" in real life, along the way. 

Easily could have been much worse than it was. This happens too frequently. I saw teenagers tossing rocks off the side once on Longs, before somebody yelled at them to stop, because some free climbers were coming up that direction. 

I talked to one of my friends from the area last night, I met on a trail 10-12 years ago. He guides  climbs focused on learning the formative geology (geophysics) of the Rockies with people, that are not there, just to bag peaks.

Just as I, he also has a degree in Geology. He has a qualifier for his "guided tours." You have to want to know and experience the structure and rock formations of the area, or he will not go up with you. He qualifies his candidates by asking them about a simple geologic term, and if they answer correctly, he will sign them up.

I asked if that limited his business in the area, and he told me he is booked solid through Mid Novemeber and has already collected about 90% of his fees in advance. I was shocked as to the amount of work he has in front of him.

He is a great fellow, and told me some of the stories of his tours with folks. I was in tears, last night, from laughing so hard. My chest hurts this morning.

What he does, that is living the life, in my books.

Spaightlabs

I think CFI has done an endless and tireless job of improving the 14er experience and educating folks and I believe they are getting involved the signage issue in a positive manner in the Elks. Of course any of the SAR groups can always use funding but they also get some funding in general from their respective county sheriffs where most, if not all report up to.

Can you imagine heading up to Cap in a pair of skater shoes?  

You almost always have one more adventure in you...it just has to be scaled appropriately and you have to leave early enough and know your limitations.

YukonRon

Spaightlabs said:

I think CFI has done an endless and tireless job of improving the 14er experience and educating folks and I believe they are getting involved the signage issue in a positive manner in the Elks. Of course any of the SAR groups can always use funding but they also get some funding in general from their respective county sheriffs where most, if not all report up to.

Can you imagine heading up to Cap in a pair of skater shoes?  

You almost always have one more adventure in you...it just has to be scaled appropriately and you have to leave early enough and know your limitations.

I saw it it (skater shoes) on Longs last time up. It would not surprise me to see them on Cap.

Know anything about Southern or southwestern Wyoming? Thinking of going there, and I am not very well read on the terrain there.

northGAcock

Spaightlabs said:

I think CFI has done an endless and tireless job of improving the 14er experience and educating folks and I believe they are getting involved the signage issue in a positive manner in the Elks. Of course any of the SAR groups can always use funding but they also get some funding in general from their respective county sheriffs where most, if not all report up to.

Can you imagine heading up to Cap in a pair of skater shoes?  

You almost always have one more adventure in you...it just has to be scaled appropriately and you have to leave early enough and know your limitations.

....and don't forget the EXL Egg lottery.