OT - Engineering

Eoin

fishlessman said:

saluki2007 said:

I work at a precision machine shop and we have a good mix of under and over 50.  But to your point, we are having trouble finding maintenance people.  We just had 2 retire and have not been able to find anyone to replace them.

most of my machines are ww2 era, big horizontal boring machines, vtl lathes etc,  not many under 50 can actually run them let alone repair them. i do have a cnc mazac in house, seems thats what the younger guys want to run

Our customers have a lot of old stuff that they still run, pre war DC cranes and 60s lifting jacks are favourites on the railway. This stuff really tests you when it goes wrong - no manuals, no wiring diagrams, nothing. The benefit is that you can charge good rates as most people won't touch it. 

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

you guys need to work in a weld shop, you hire the guy that makes it to work on mondays and the day after a paycheck or the guy that has a car, drivers license and can go pick those guys up

Maybe if you made your employee benefits package a little sweeter (zero deductable health insurance, matching 401, etc.)  you could attract a some more professional employees.....or just hire from overseas...and risk Trump climbing up yo ass..

insurance here has always been 100 percent paid by the company. 401k was matched which was easy, no one put a dime into it. take a class at the community college and its paid for if you get a c or better free pizza if you stay wednesday night and practice welding and get paid, teacher included.  used to have free beer on friday nights after work, but that had to end.  right now most are on a straight path but those are the ones that survived the 70's and 80's.  welders used to be out of control, drugs, spear throwing, fired one and within a month he was stabbed in a bad area of town at 2am in the morning with a competitors welding truck parked next to his dead body.  fired another who later drove said competitors welding truck thru the glass windows into a hotel lobby. that spear chucker injun joe threw a spear at the cook in the local diner. had one take a tire iron at a state cop(big reason we stopped beer fridays)   caught one stealing gas on a company card for heroine, left in cuffs, last thing he said while getting hauled out the door; do i still have a job, all kinds of tools were missing during that hire secretary stole 160k, got that back thank god. could keep posting, i have a wall of shame on the bulletin board, whole bunch we still talk about and wonder if they are still breathing i know i dont see the big picture, its only a 6 to 10 man cave i work in.

Legume

Acn said:

Legume said:

the STEM vs arts thing is an argument that shouldn't be happening - education should be about building perspective, laying in a foundation of knowledge and understanding, and cultivating thought process.

This would be a great idea if schools and teachers weren't judged overwhelmingly on the basis of student results on standardized reading and math tests.  Since that is what they are judged on, schools teach reading and math - if science/social studies/arts/etc can be shoehorned into reading or math, great.  If not, at least they'll know how to take a standardized test.

I agree, that's the challenge.  But if I think about the teachers my kids had that were exceptional - and generally recognized as exceptional teachers that reached and inspired kids, this is what they do.  you can teach the curriculum in a rote way, or you can find the way to go beyond that.  same in any job, some do the job, some go beyond.

pgprescott

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

How exactly does one do welding off the grid? Blacksmith work maybe, but welding?????

Eoin

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

you guys need to work in a weld shop, you hire the guy that makes it to work on mondays and the day after a paycheck or the guy that has a car, drivers license and can go pick those guys up

Maybe if you made your employee benefits package a little sweeter (zero deductable health insurance, matching 401, etc.)  you could attract a some more professional employees.....or just hire from overseas...and risk Trump climbing up yo ass..

insurance here has always been 100 percent paid by the company. 401k was matched which was easy, no one put a dime into it. take a class at the community college and its paid for if you get a c or better free pizza if you stay wednesday night and practice welding and get paid, teacher included.  used to have free beer on friday nights after work, but that had to end.  right now most are on a straight path but those are the ones that survived the 70's and 80's.  welders used to be out of control, drugs, spear throwing, fired one and within a month he was stabbed in a bad area of town at 2am in the morning with a competitors welding truck parked next to his dead body.  fired another who later drove said competitors welding truck thru the glass windows into a hotel lobby. that spear chucker injun joe threw a spear at the cook in the local diner. had one take a tire iron at a state cop(big reason we stopped beer fridays)   caught one stealing gas on a company card for heroine, left in cuffs, last thing he said while getting hauled out the door; do i still have a job, all kinds of tools were missing during that hire secretary stole 160k, got that back thank god. could keep posting, i have a wall of shame on the bulletin board, whole bunch we still talk about and wonder if they are still breathing i know i dont see the big picture, its only a 6 to 10 man cave i work in.

Do you have a trade split in the US between platers and welders?

nolaegghead

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

you guys need to work in a weld shop, you hire the guy that makes it to work on mondays and the day after a paycheck or the guy that has a car, drivers license and can go pick those guys up

Maybe if you made your employee benefits package a little sweeter (zero deductable health insurance, matching 401, etc.)  you could attract a some more professional employees.....or just hire from overseas...and risk Trump climbing up yo ass..

insurance here has always been 100 percent paid by the company. 401k was matched which was easy, no one put a dime into it. take a class at the community college and its paid for if you get a c or better free pizza if you stay wednesday night and practice welding and get paid, teacher included.  used to have free beer on friday nights after work, but that had to end.  right now most are on a straight path but those are the ones that survived the 70's and 80's.  welders used to be out of control, drugs, spear throwing, fired one and within a month he was stabbed in a bad area of town at 2am in the morning with a competitors welding truck parked next to his dead body.  fired another who later drove said competitors welding truck thru the glass windows into a hotel lobby. that spear chucker injun joe threw a spear at the cook in the local diner. had one take a tire iron at a state cop(big reason we stopped beer fridays)   caught one stealing gas on a company card for heroine, left in cuffs, last thing he said while getting hauled out the door; do i still have a job, all kinds of tools were missing during that hire secretary stole 160k, got that back thank god. could keep posting, i have a wall of shame on the bulletin board, whole bunch we still talk about and wonder if they are still breathing i know i dont see the big picture, its only a 6 to 10 man cave i work in.

holy mother of Zeus!  no wonder you have a pessimistic vision of humanity! 

Some companies hire ex-cons, seems like you're getting the pre-cons.

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

we have a guy like that, best welder ive ever seen. he brings in race car parts and works on them after work and weekends. high school diploma and he doesnt have to ask me geometry problems and force reactions, pretty much designs his own suspensions now, his team has overall first place the last couple years. temperamental bastard

nolaegghead

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

we have a guy like that, best welder ive ever seen. he brings in race car parts and works on them after work and weekends. high school diploma and he doesnt have to ask me geometry problems and force reactions, pretty much designs his own suspensions now, his team has overall first place the last couple years. temperamental bastard

My buddy likes to do kinetic art too.  I have one of his pieces, he needed some quick cash so I got it (relatively) cheap.   Here's some of his stuff.  http://www.bertaut.com/mavor.html

Braggart

My oldest son is in his third year of a four year (mechanical) eng program.  His marks are middle/high.  He has phenomenal social skills (good genes!..ha) and middle road aptitude for hands on stuff.  In an effort to improve his marketability, he is part of an off-road vehicle club (faculty of eng sponsored) that is fabricating specialized vehicles for nation wide competitions.  He's learning quickly all the things that everyone on here is referring to.  How to work in the trenches, how to weld, turn a wrench, problem solve.  When he's home in the summers, we maintain our vehicles, fix small engines, do chores, etc.

His desire is to secure an internship at the end of his 3rd year, work for 18 months, and then finish off his 4th year after the work experience concludes.  Ideally, he'll be positioned to resume work as a bonafide (in training) engineer with his internship company once he graduates.

Trouble is...many of the available internships are being granted to the 4.0 GPA (top tier) students.  Many of these students are book smart, but couldn't find their azz with a map and compass.   Absolutely zero social skills and no personality.  (My son is good friends with many!)

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward.

I'm sure he'll find someone to give him and his 3.6 GPA a chance...but it won't be the most sought after companies....and in the meantime, going straight into his 4th year (after a summer of working at the golf course again) is always an option.  Of course then he'll have even less experience...

Slippery slope.

nolaegghead

GPA mostly matters when you're starting out.  Once you build up experience, it's much less important - the previous body of work in a resume is really scrutinized for senior level positions.   Of course a crappy GPA can haunt you, or turn you into a bargain, like an undrafted player that turns into a gem.

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

we have a guy like that, best welder ive ever seen. he brings in race car parts and works on them after work and weekends. high school diploma and he doesnt have to ask me geometry problems and force reactions, pretty much designs his own suspensions now, his team has overall first place the last couple years. temperamental bastard

My buddy likes to do kinetic art too.  I have one of his pieces, he needed some quick cash so I got it (relatively) cheap.   Here's some of his stuff.  http://www.bertaut.com/mavor.html

some nice work there. i think most welders are the artsy fartsy type inside when it comes to this stuff. i got a wall between them and the machinists, they dont fit together

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

you guys need to work in a weld shop, you hire the guy that makes it to work on mondays and the day after a paycheck or the guy that has a car, drivers license and can go pick those guys up

Maybe if you made your employee benefits package a little sweeter (zero deductable health insurance, matching 401, etc.)  you could attract a some more professional employees.....or just hire from overseas...and risk Trump climbing up yo ass..

insurance here has always been 100 percent paid by the company. 401k was matched which was easy, no one put a dime into it. take a class at the community college and its paid for if you get a c or better free pizza if you stay wednesday night and practice welding and get paid, teacher included.  used to have free beer on friday nights after work, but that had to end.  right now most are on a straight path but those are the ones that survived the 70's and 80's.  welders used to be out of control, drugs, spear throwing, fired one and within a month he was stabbed in a bad area of town at 2am in the morning with a competitors welding truck parked next to his dead body.  fired another who later drove said competitors welding truck thru the glass windows into a hotel lobby. that spear chucker injun joe threw a spear at the cook in the local diner. had one take a tire iron at a state cop(big reason we stopped beer fridays)   caught one stealing gas on a company card for heroine, left in cuffs, last thing he said while getting hauled out the door; do i still have a job, all kinds of tools were missing during that hire secretary stole 160k, got that back thank god. could keep posting, i have a wall of shame on the bulletin board, whole bunch we still talk about and wonder if they are still breathing i know i dont see the big picture, its only a 6 to 10 man cave i work in.

holy mother of Zeus!  no wonder you have a pessimistic vision of humanity! 

Some companies hire ex-cons, seems like you're getting the pre-cons.

just for the record, these were all white republicans
oh, remember that narcon discussion we had last spring, that guy next door has injected it 3 times since and been arrested for heroine once since then. 3 ambulance rides and an arrest and all he has had to pay is 50 bucks in fines wheres the state when we need them, those dems must be hanging curtains or something about time i got a political pessimistic vision of humanity! post in, days almost over

i dont really consider myself pessimistic, im more the loud laughing party drunk type

fishlessman

Eoin said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

you guys need to work in a weld shop, you hire the guy that makes it to work on mondays and the day after a paycheck or the guy that has a car, drivers license and can go pick those guys up

Maybe if you made your employee benefits package a little sweeter (zero deductable health insurance, matching 401, etc.)  you could attract a some more professional employees.....or just hire from overseas...and risk Trump climbing up yo ass..

insurance here has always been 100 percent paid by the company. 401k was matched which was easy, no one put a dime into it. take a class at the community college and its paid for if you get a c or better free pizza if you stay wednesday night and practice welding and get paid, teacher included.  used to have free beer on friday nights after work, but that had to end.  right now most are on a straight path but those are the ones that survived the 70's and 80's.  welders used to be out of control, drugs, spear throwing, fired one and within a month he was stabbed in a bad area of town at 2am in the morning with a competitors welding truck parked next to his dead body.  fired another who later drove said competitors welding truck thru the glass windows into a hotel lobby. that spear chucker injun joe threw a spear at the cook in the local diner. had one take a tire iron at a state cop(big reason we stopped beer fridays)   caught one stealing gas on a company card for heroine, left in cuffs, last thing he said while getting hauled out the door; do i still have a job, all kinds of tools were missing during that hire secretary stole 160k, got that back thank god. could keep posting, i have a wall of shame on the bulletin board, whole bunch we still talk about and wonder if they are still breathing i know i dont see the big picture, its only a 6 to 10 man cave i work in.

Do you have a trade split in the US between platers and welders?

bigger shops do, my guys are fabricator/welders for the most part. we build things from design to engineering, fabricating, machining, and testing.  we build things like this with equipment that dates back into the 1800's

HeavyG

pgprescott said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

How exactly does one do welding off the grid? Blacksmith work maybe, but welding?????

Welding generator.

fishlessman

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

How exactly does one do welding off the grid? Blacksmith work maybe, but welding?????

Welding generator.

the very long extension chords for my welding truck are history

pgprescott

HeavyG said:

pgprescott said:

nolaegghead said:

fishlessman said:

nolaegghead said:

Based on forum persona/threads/posts.... who would you hire here?  (Rhetorical question)

no one   for welding you need two hands and a head, no phone for internetting

I'm a decent welder, but would hate to do it for a living.  I have a buddy that might just be the most talented technical welder in the city.  Learned welding exotics at Martin Marietta or some place like that.  Unfortunately, he's a completely off-the-grid guy.  Burner phone, works exclusively out of the shop in his back yard.   All the motorcycle people go to him for custom swing arm fabrication and titanium welds.

How exactly does one do welding off the grid? Blacksmith work maybe, but welding?????

Welding generator.

Runs on hydro power, wind, solar, or human waste?

ToTheMax

Braggart said:

I'm sure he'll find someone to give him and his 3.6 GPA a chance...but it won't be the most sought after companies....

And good for him. 

The bigger the company, the more sought after, the less I learned to do.

I learned the most in my engineering career working for small companies. 

Braggart

ToTheMax said:

Braggart said:

I'm sure he'll find someone to give him and his 3.6 GPA a chance...but it won't be the most sought after companies....

And good for him. 

The bigger the company, the more sought after, the less I learned to do.

I learned the most in my engineering career working for small companies. 

Point well received.  

Hope I didn't give the wrong impression though.  He is open to anything right now.  Lots of interviews.  No bites though.  He is not one to dismiss "smaller companies".  

Most of the 4.0s are already locked up, and have been for some time.  They are all looking forward to starting their internships at the end of their school year.  

In keeping with the OP's original point...these are the same individuals that would be hard pressed to understand "righty tighty, lefty loosey".   You reap what you sow.

gmac

Braggart said:

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward

This is an interesting thread. My oldest is in grade 11 and is a math and science fanatic. I don't know if he will go into engineering or not but I actually hope not. Up to him though. He is also doing a lot of other things though. Rocket team, football team captain, track team, improv group, trivia competition team and school
play so I think he is burning the candle at both end and the middle.... 

Regardkng the the comment I quoted, the GPA issue really seems to be an American thing. We hire lots of students and I never ask their GPA nor have I ever been asked for mine. If they point out an academic award like Deans List etc on their resume that's a bonus but their experience and demeanor are so much more important to me when interviewing. Same for hiring full time staff. If they passed, they have the degree. That's about it. I expect people on here will disagree with that because that's how it's always been where you are but it sure isn't a big deal here for me. 

I would prefer my sons go into the trades. Good honest work, useful and always needed. I am trained as an exterminator before going back to school for an Ag degree. I often wonder what would happen if I had stayed in pest control and started my own firm.

Braggart

gmac said:

Braggart said:

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward

Regardkng the the comment I quoted, the GPA issue really seems to be an American thing. 

Alberta....Schulich School of Engineering....U of C.

gmac

Braggart said:

gmac said:

Braggart said:

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward

Regardkng the the comment I quoted, the GPA issue really seems to be an American thing. 

Alberta....Schulich School of Engineering....U of C.

They use GPA in Alberta?  Either way I'm surprised that people are asking about grades. Like I said, I've never asked not been asked. And a flyers logo?  Really?  No wonder I assumed you were American

kl8ton

The ex cons we have hired have been hit and miss.  One we have now is awesome.  Great attitude. Great work ethic.  Probably happy to be out. He served 10 years. 

Book smarts vs experience.  . . A girl I graduated with was top of our class.  She did not know what type of food was in the produce department.  Her guess was meat. 

nolaegghead

kl8ton said:

The ex cons we have hired have been hit and miss.  One we have now is awesome.  Great attitude. Great work ethic.  Probably happy to be out. He served 10 years. 

Book smarts vs experience.  . . A girl I graduated with was top of our class.  She did not know what type of food was in the produce department.  Her guess was meat. 

Maybe she was a new aged girl.  She don't eat meat but she sure like the...nevermind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qosk-UIQIjA

Braggart

gmac said:

Braggart said:

gmac said:

Braggart said:

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward

Regardkng the the comment I quoted, the GPA issue really seems to be an American thing. 

Alberta....Schulich School of Engineering....U of C.

They use GPA in Alberta?  Either way I'm surprised that people are asking about grades. Like I said, I've never asked not been asked. And a flyers logo?  Really?  No wonder I assumed you were American

They do...and they don't.   When applying for internships, they ask for GPA.  He has been instructed to be accurate to within 2 decimal points.  He's sitting at a 3.72 he says.  However if you look at some of his final marks in his last semester, he's showing A's, B+'s etc.  Not sure what to say.

As for the Flyers...been a Flyer fan for over 40 years....back when they played hockey like it was supposed to be played.  Black eyes and broken ankles.  I bleed orange.

bigalsworth

Braggart said:

gmac said:

Braggart said:

gmac said:

Braggart said:

Competition these days is fierce.  GPA/marks/results are being held in higher regard than aptitude.  Everyone is complaining that tomorrow's generation don't have the needed skills...but in OUR reality, no one is giving the students that have these very skills the chance to move forward

Regardkng the the comment I quoted, the GPA issue really seems to be an American thing. 

Alberta....Schulich School of Engineering....U of C.

They use GPA in Alberta?  Either way I'm surprised that people are asking about grades. Like I said, I've never asked not been asked. And a flyers logo?  Really?  No wonder I assumed you were American

They do...and they don't.   When applying for internships, they ask for GPA.  He has been instructed to be accurate to within 2 decimal points.  He's sitting at a 3.72 he says.  However if you look at some of his final marks in his last semester, he's showing A's, B+'s etc.  Not sure what to say.

As for the Flyers...been a Flyer fan for over 40 years....back when they played hockey like it was supposed to be played.  Black eyes and broken ankles.  I bleed orange.

Oil and gas companies have required GPAs for people coming out of school, but they have not always based their decision on it, at least in my profession (Power engineering).  I had a 3.59 when I graduated, but I was 25 and had other life experiences (nothing special, really just just some time to mature) that they felt was an asset.  The only other way to get a job is to know someone.  Unfortunately this is not a great time for engineers in Alberta, I know half a dozen of them that are luckily still employed but basically have their desk packed and hope the hell no one stops at their desk to give them bad news.  Some of them have had 20% wage cut by telling them not to come in on fridays, which for some is fine, for others not so fine.

fishlessman

the difference between 3.6 and 4.0 is intense brown nosing with the teachers before during and after class. i did not get the 4.0

bigalsworth

fishlessman said:

the difference between 3.6 and 4.0 is intense brown nosing with the teachers before during and after class. i did not get the 4.0

the difference for me was because I was very drunk a lot of the time.  Figured since it was my  last year of school ever I might as well do it right and not say no to fun.

fishlessman

bigalsworth said:

fishlessman said:

the difference between 3.6 and 4.0 is intense brown nosing with the teachers before during and after class. i did not get the 4.0

the difference for me was because I was very drunk a lot of the time.  Figured since it was my  last year of school ever I might as well do it right and not say no to fun.

same here but i did that for seven years cept by then i knew the professors enough that having beers with them was enough to get me the 3.6   my last class i talked the professor into having it at the local chinese place, found out my way over the top teach was a roxbury ma slum lord. thought for sure i would drop a grade level or two, ended with i dont care what you give me but it better be a D or better, i still got the A. it was a philosophy class, our philosophies did not quite line up