Costco During KJ Road Show = Dangerous

SteelCitySmoke814

Dont want to spur some "it's not a BGE" thread (assuming that happens but I don't know if that mindset exists), but couldn't pass a KJ Jr during the local Costco KJ Road Show. 

I own a LBGE and after cooking on a friend's MiniMax a few times I grew to appreciate having the option for those nights you're only doing 4 burgers, pieces of chicken, pork chops, 1 whole chicken, hell even a 3-4# pork shoulder (ya - weird how much you'd use it huh), and went with the KJ Jr.

I did a cook tonight (props to it being lit about 20 minutes after unboxing), and no complaints.  I look forward to having that option.  Pretty excited to take it along to the park on our newfound picnic/fishing trips to the local parks. 



 Next up, table addition!

westernbbq

Good score but i think red goes on the left for port and green should be on the right for starboard.....

Darby_Crenshaw

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

bigbadben

Yes Jr sized cookers are awesome!  I am amazed how much food I can fit on my Jr. 

You our can get a canning rack and use it as an extender rack for an extra level of cooking. 

hoosier_egger

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

According to the rep at Costco when I was there a couple weeks ago they're made 14 miles from one another. Damn near an exact copycat

Eggcelsior

ColtsFan said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

According to the rep at Costco when I was there a couple weeks ago they're made 14 miles from one another. Damn near an exact copycat

Ummm... China is not 14 miles from Mexico, the last time I checked. Someone needs a geography lesson.

Canugghead

Congrats, I almost got one too but resisted the temptation!

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

I visited a KJ roadshow recently, when asked about the capacity, features etc. the KJ rep pulled up BGE specs on her iphone and read it to a potential customer 

tonyled

i have that same combo.  it will serve you well.  im also trying to decide on a table design

HeavyG

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

Could they have even done that?

The BGE and other similar kamados are almost literal copies of kamados that existed for decades before BGE came into being.

Of course the basic design of kamados is much older but BGE literally copied kamados that were being sold in Japan to US military folks after WWII.

My dad was in the USN for 30+ years and we lived in Japan for 4 years in the 1960s. We had a "green egg" while living there and my dad bought two brand new ones to ship back to the US when he got orders stateside.

The only thing I recall being noticeably different was the surface texture. The surface texture of the KJ is possibly different enough from the BGE rounder dimples to avoid such potential concerns. Perhaps.

HeavyG

SteelCitySmoke814 said:

...hell even a 3-4# pork shoulder (ya - weird how much you'd use it huh), and went with the KJ Jr....

I've done a 9# pork butt on my KJ Jr. It was tight but airflow remained fine and it didn't even interfere with the dome thermometer.

Darby_Crenshaw

HeavyG said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

Could they have even done that?

The BGE and other similar kamados are almost literal copies of kamados that existed for decades before BGE came into being.

Of course the basic design of kamados is much older but BGE literally copied kamados that were being sold in Japan to US military folks after WWII.

My dad was in the USN for 30+ years and we lived in Japan for 4 years in the 1960s. We had a "green egg" while living there and my dad bought two brand new ones to ship back to the US when he got orders stateside.

The only thing I recall being noticeably different was the surface texture. The surface texture of the KJ is possibly different enough from the BGE rounder dimples to avoid such potential concerns. Perhaps.

The kamado itself is one thing. I'm talking about the design elements that contribute to the appearance

the dimples are nothing more than an awsthetic design decision. They are not a part of the process like they were when clay 'slip' was slapped on the earthenware pieces originally. That element is as old as the ceramics (or earthenware, i guess) making process. 

But the things are molded these days, in one piece. And the dimple pattern has changed over the years. It's purely aesthetic. And since they (BGE) came up with the dimple as a visual 'mark', they should have been able to trade mark it. 

Same for the bevel of the dome as it meets the band. ...and maybe some other aspects. 

I mean, grill done doesn't make them in green, right?

other kamados don't infringe (like the bubba leg for example) because they are so different

general kamado shape and fundamental elements wouldn't be trademarked. But non critical appearance related design elements and identifying marks, sure


A car company can't trademark having four wheels and a hood ornament. But they can trademark the design of their hood ornament (badge) and other elements which ID their brand 

Just seems odd. 

Obviously someone has done their homework though. Because a blatant ripoff wouldn't last long unless there was a loophole

i agree, can't trademark a kamado soecifically. But the appearance of it, brand-signifying stuff, shoulda been able to i'd think

hoosier_egger

Eggcelsior said:

ColtsFan said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

According to the rep at Costco when I was there a couple weeks ago they're made 14 miles from one another. Damn near an exact copycat

Ummm... China is not 14 miles from Mexico, the last time I checked. Someone needs a geography lesson.

lol..That's funny. I never researched it

SteelCitySmoke814

HeavyG said:

SteelCitySmoke814 said:

...hell even a 3-4# pork shoulder (ya - weird how much you'd use it huh), and went with the KJ Jr....

I've done a 9# pork butt on my KJ Jr. It was tight but airflow remained fine and it didn't even interfere with the dome thermometer.

Even better news!

HeavyG

Darby_Crenshaw said:

HeavyG said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

Could they have even done that?

The BGE and other similar kamados are almost literal copies of kamados that existed for decades before BGE came into being.

Of course the basic design of kamados is much older but BGE literally copied kamados that were being sold in Japan to US military folks after WWII.

My dad was in the USN for 30+ years and we lived in Japan for 4 years in the 1960s. We had a "green egg" while living there and my dad bought two brand new ones to ship back to the US when he got orders stateside.

The only thing I recall being noticeably different was the surface texture. The surface texture of the KJ is possibly different enough from the BGE rounder dimples to avoid such potential concerns. Perhaps.

The kamado itself is one thing. I'm talking about the design elements that contribute to the appearance

the dimples are nothing more than an awsthetic design decision. They are not a part of the process like they were when clay 'slip' was slapped on the earthenware pieces originally. That element is as old as the ceramics (or earthenware, i guess) making process. 

But the things are molded these days, in one piece. And the dimple pattern has changed over the years. It's purely aesthetic. And since they (BGE) came up with the dimple as a visual 'mark', they should have been able to trade mark it. 

Same for the bevel of the dome as it meets the band. ...and maybe some other aspects. 

I mean, grill done doesn't make them in green, right?

other kamados don't infringe (like the bubba leg for example) because they are so different

general kamado shape and fundamental elements wouldn't be trademarked. But non critical appearance related design elements and identifying marks, sure


A car company can't trademark having four wheels and a hood ornament. But they can trademark the design of their hood ornament (badge) and other elements which ID their brand 

Just seems odd. 

Obviously someone has done their homework though. Because a blatant ripoff wouldn't last long unless there was a loophole

i agree, can't trademark a kamado soecifically. But the appearance of it, brand-signifying stuff, shoulda been able to i'd think

I understood what you meant by certain design elements. The problem with trying to gain IP protection for such things is there is a lot of leeway for some features that might be considered naturally similar.

The angle/slope of the dome at the bands? Sure, the BGE and KJ look very similar. I'm not going to break out my angle gauge and start measuring but looking at pix of the old Imperial kamados the BGE band/dome construct looks almost identical. I think it would be tough for BGE to claim some sort of unique aesthetic there.

Dimples? BGE are roundish. KJ "dimples" are more like lima beans. Different enough? Probably. Apparently.

Bottom vent? The "original" Japanese kamados also had lower sliding ventsThe only significant difference  with the BGE lower vents is the inclusion of a sliding fire screen which I think BGE may have patented - not sure. KJ does not have a sliding fire screen (perhaps because of a possible BGE patent?). Instead their two larger models have incorporated a fire screen with their removable ash catcher. Their Jr. has no ash catcher or sliding fire screen (I've never had a problem with sparks flying out of the bottom vent on my Jr.).

Grill Dome may not make green versions but I think that may have more to do with marketing and trying to avoid being confused with the BGE rather than any potential legal problems (tho of course in the USA the threat of litigation is always in the background).

Kamado Joe used to sell their kamados in black and red but they made the decision a year or so ago to just stick with red as their branded color.

BGE pretty much had the entire kamado market to themselves for so long that perhaps they just didn't think they needed to try and protect any aesthetic differences of their models. Beats me.

Eggcelsior

I wish KJ had kept the black. The red is ugly and makes me want to beat it like... What's that stepchild phrase?  

Texag06ish

What's the cost of a Joe Jr.?

BYS1981

Should have bought all their lump. 

SteelCitySmoke814

Texag06ish said:

What's the cost of a Joe Jr.?

Costco Roadshow price was $399.99 with everything you need to cook (grill, ceramic for indirect, etc). They had 2 packs of 20lb charcoal for $29.99 as well which is a good price IMO for any decent lump. 

I have no complaints at all after a single cook, and I've learned my BBQ Guru can work on it simply by me picking up a $20 adapter, so I'm totally satisfied thus far. 

SunDeviledEgg

HeavyG said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

HeavyG said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

Could they have even done that?

The BGE and other similar kamados are almost literal copies of kamados that existed for decades before BGE came into being.

Of course the basic design of kamados is much older but BGE literally copied kamados that were being sold in Japan to US military folks after WWII.

My dad was in the USN for 30+ years and we lived in Japan for 4 years in the 1960s. We had a "green egg" while living there and my dad bought two brand new ones to ship back to the US when he got orders stateside.

The only thing I recall being noticeably different was the surface texture. The surface texture of the KJ is possibly different enough from the BGE rounder dimples to avoid such potential concerns. Perhaps.

The kamado itself is one thing. I'm talking about the design elements that contribute to the appearance

the dimples are nothing more than an awsthetic design decision. They are not a part of the process like they were when clay 'slip' was slapped on the earthenware pieces originally. That element is as old as the ceramics (or earthenware, i guess) making process. 

But the things are molded these days, in one piece. And the dimple pattern has changed over the years. It's purely aesthetic. And since they (BGE) came up with the dimple as a visual 'mark', they should have been able to trade mark it. 

Same for the bevel of the dome as it meets the band. ...and maybe some other aspects. 

I mean, grill done doesn't make them in green, right?

other kamados don't infringe (like the bubba leg for example) because they are so different

general kamado shape and fundamental elements wouldn't be trademarked. But non critical appearance related design elements and identifying marks, sure


A car company can't trademark having four wheels and a hood ornament. But they can trademark the design of their hood ornament (badge) and other elements which ID their brand 

Just seems odd. 

Obviously someone has done their homework though. Because a blatant ripoff wouldn't last long unless there was a loophole

i agree, can't trademark a kamado soecifically. But the appearance of it, brand-signifying stuff, shoulda been able to i'd think

I understood what you meant by certain design elements. The problem with trying to gain IP protection for such things is there is a lot of leeway for some features that might be considered naturally similar.

The angle/slope of the dome at the bands? Sure, the BGE and KJ look very similar. I'm not going to break out my angle gauge and start measuring but looking at pix of the old Imperial kamados the BGE band/dome construct looks almost identical. I think it would be tough for BGE to claim some sort of unique aesthetic there.

Dimples? BGE are roundish. KJ "dimples" are more like lima beans. Different enough? Probably. Apparently.

Bottom vent? The "original" Japanese kamados also had lower sliding ventsThe only significant difference  with the BGE lower vents is the inclusion of a sliding fire screen which I think BGE may have patented - not sure. KJ does not have a sliding fire screen (perhaps because of a possible BGE patent?). Instead their two larger models have incorporated a fire screen with their removable ash catcher. Their Jr. has no ash catcher or sliding fire screen (I've never had a problem with sparks flying out of the bottom vent on my Jr.).

Grill Dome may not make green versions but I think that may have more to do with marketing and trying to avoid being confused with the BGE rather than any potential legal problems (tho of course in the USA the threat of litigation is always in the background).

Kamado Joe used to sell their kamados in black and red but they made the decision a year or so ago to just stick with red as their branded color.

BGE pretty much had the entire kamado market to themselves for so long that perhaps they just didn't think they needed to try and protect any aesthetic differences of their models. Beats me.

Louisiana Grills makes a green kamado grill.

Ladeback69

Eggcelsior said:

I wish KJ had kept the black. The red is ugly and makes me want to beat it like... What's that stepchild phrase?  

I like Red so it is not ugly to me.  Green is not my favorite color, but I have gotten used to it with the Egg,  but I thought they still sold both red and black?

I wanted to by Joe Jr a year ago for around $360, but SWMBO said no so I got a Kahuna for $200 and lets just say it you get what you paid for and it is not worth $200.  It takes about the same amount of time to get to temp as my XL, but uses less lump.  I haven't used it in a long time.

@SteelCitySmoke814, good buy and happy cooking.

Wardster

I very well could be wrong, but I seem to remember Ed trying diligently to put a squash on Primo in the early days.  They popped up right down the street from him.  I'm sure some of the 'homework' done on that paved the way for others.

Ladeback69

Wardster said:

I very well could be wrong, but I seem to remember Ed trying diligently to put a squash on Primo in the early days.  They popped up right down the street from him.  I'm sure some of the 'homework' done on that paved the way for others.

Isn't the person who started Primo a former BGE employee?  That's what I heard.  

Ladeback69

Guess I was wrong.

http://www.primogrill.com/en-us/explore/the-primo-story

tonyled

Ladeback69 said:

Eggcelsior said:

I wish KJ had kept the black. The red is ugly and makes me want to beat it like... What's that stepchild phrase?  

 but I thought they still sold both red and black?

nope i preferred the black look but the rep told me they discontinued them.  might be some older ones still in stores though

if it were as simple as dimples golf ball manufacturers would be having a heyday with each other

bigalsworth

I wish costco had the KJ road show in Canada.

WeberWho

Ladeback69 said:

Wardster said:

I very well could be wrong, but I seem to remember Ed trying diligently to put a squash on Primo in the early days.  They popped up right down the street from him.  I'm sure some of the 'homework' done on that paved the way for others.

Isn't the person who started Primo a former BGE employee?  That's what I heard.  

Two ex-employees I think how the story goes

chuckytheegghead

bigalsworth said:

I wish costco had the KJ road show in Canada.

They do

HeavyG

chuckytheegghead said:

bigalsworth said:

I wish costco had the KJ road show in Canada.

They do

Looking at the Costco Canada Special Events calendar it doesn't appear that there are any KJ Roadshows in Canada in the next few months.

http://www.costco.ca/wcsstore/CostcoCABCCatalogAssetStore/Attachment/special-events/SE_JUNE_ENGLISH_02-160616.pdf

dougcrann

Darby_Crenshaw said:

HeavyG said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

I continually am amazed at how BGE never trademarked any of the design elements. I am not talking about patents. I simply mean trademark design (visual) elements

That thing is a red BGE. Same dimple pattern, profile, bevel at the bands, lower vent...

crazy

Could they have even done that?

The BGE and other similar kamados are almost literal copies of kamados that existed for decades before BGE came into being.

Of course the basic design of kamados is much older but BGE literally copied kamados that were being sold in Japan to US military folks after WWII.

My dad was in the USN for 30+ years and we lived in Japan for 4 years in the 1960s. We had a "green egg" while living there and my dad bought two brand new ones to ship back to the US when he got orders stateside.

The only thing I recall being noticeably different was the surface texture. The surface texture of the KJ is possibly different enough from the BGE rounder dimples to avoid such potential concerns. Perhaps.

The kamado itself is one thing. I'm talking about the design elements that contribute to the appearance

the dimples are nothing more than an awsthetic design decision. They are not a part of the process like they were when clay 'slip' was slapped on the earthenware pieces originally. That element is as old as the ceramics (or earthenware, i guess) making process. 

But the things are molded these days, in one piece. And the dimple pattern has changed over the years. It's purely aesthetic. And since they (BGE) came up with the dimple as a visual 'mark', they should have been able to trade mark it. 

Same for the bevel of the dome as it meets the band. ...and maybe some other aspects. 

I mean, grill done doesn't make them in green, right?

other kamados don't infringe (like the bubba leg for example) because they are so different

general kamado shape and fundamental elements wouldn't be trademarked. But non critical appearance related design elements and identifying marks, sure


A car company can't trademark having four wheels and a hood ornament. But they can trademark the design of their hood ornament (badge) and other elements which ID their brand 

Just seems odd. 

Obviously someone has done their homework though. Because a blatant ripoff wouldn't last long unless there was a loophole

i agree, can't trademark a kamado soecifically. But the appearance of it, brand-signifying stuff, shoulda been able to i'd think

While back I was taking a road trip to AZ. Was asked to pick up and deliver some rather heavy car parts to a member of the Military who was in Pendleton. When I was picking up the parts I couldn't help but notice a very old Kamado style cooker. Starting talking to the owner. Mike was in Vietnam and found it in anew abandoned village. He managed to get it to the states without wrecking it. He had no idea what it was or how it worked. It was missing both grates. Sent him to the Egg dealer in Spokane Valley, the grates from a Large Egg fit it perfectly.  Couple years later I received a Thank you card...Mike discovered the "World of Egging" as he called it. 

BigWader

bigalsworth said:

I wish costco had the KJ road show in Canada.

Look at Lowes.  Price is about $550 Cdn.  Lots of times they have 10-15% off sales on everything in store and with the exchange on $399 USD and state sales tax you are probably about even without the drive plus get Canadian KJ warranty support...

bigalsworth

chuckytheegghead said:

bigalsworth said:

I wish costco had the KJ road show in Canada.

They do

I have never seen it in Saskatchewan, or on the special events calendar.  But I don't go every day or check the calendar all that often