Shooting in Orlando

bhedges1987

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

blasting said:

Willful ignorance would be  gutting the military,  and flying a few symbolic daily missions.  This is what I would call a total failure.  The evidence is the 100 dead and wounded from last night.   

I want to see 1000 missions a day hunting the animals.  Not 10-20 just to say we are doing something.

I think it's insulting to those that die, for our leaders to jump alll over gun control as the standard resonse.  To me, that qualifies as the willful ignorance of which you speak.  Hell, Obama still won't even utter the words islamic terrrorist.

So your contention is that the military is just launching air strikes for symbolic reasons, but somehow - still managing to take out ISIS leaders?  OK. 

A thousand missions a day is useless without specific targets and Intel.  But yeah, we should totally due that instead of acting like such wimps. 

Lol at "Islamic terrorist" - as though somehow saying that makes everything better.  

Gun control is hard, so let's focus on *realistic* goals like building giant walls, banning an entire faith and deporting 11 million people.  Vote for Trump!

You sir need to pick up a book written by those that served over there.  Not just listening to the news that the left wing liberals spew.  Then tell me about the Intel that we 'don't' have or the useless missions that we do with our hands behind our backs.  He is hitting the nail on the head about our air strikes. Please do not only us all a favor, but yourself a favor by picking up a book.  

Do you have a book you would recommend?  Perhaps a novella by Sean Hannity?

Level zero heroes. But nice job immediately jumping to conclusions and douchebaggery. Typical liberal behavior. 

How about this book?  

Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

A "more balanced read". Yeah...I'm sure that is exactly what you read.

Somehing with no hidden agenda, kind of like the book I mentioned? As I said incoming attack of the liberals. Disagree with one and they come out in full force. Freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. 

GrateEggspectations

This thread is getting almost as wild as last night's exchange on the Rockwood thread. 

Lit

GrateEggspectations said:

This thread is getting almost as wild as last night's exchange on the Rockwood thread. 

It's nice to be on the outside looking in

bhedges1987

Lit said:

GrateEggspectations said:

This thread is getting almost as wild as last night's exchange on the Rockwood thread. 

It's nice to be on the outside looking in

I'm on the outside now. Time for hockey and some egg food. 

JohnInCarolina

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

JohnInCarolina

bhedges1987 said:

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

blasting said:

Willful ignorance would be  gutting the military,  and flying a few symbolic daily missions.  This is what I would call a total failure.  The evidence is the 100 dead and wounded from last night.   

I want to see 1000 missions a day hunting the animals.  Not 10-20 just to say we are doing something.

I think it's insulting to those that die, for our leaders to jump alll over gun control as the standard resonse.  To me, that qualifies as the willful ignorance of which you speak.  Hell, Obama still won't even utter the words islamic terrrorist.

So your contention is that the military is just launching air strikes for symbolic reasons, but somehow - still managing to take out ISIS leaders?  OK. 

A thousand missions a day is useless without specific targets and Intel.  But yeah, we should totally due that instead of acting like such wimps. 

Lol at "Islamic terrorist" - as though somehow saying that makes everything better.  

Gun control is hard, so let's focus on *realistic* goals like building giant walls, banning an entire faith and deporting 11 million people.  Vote for Trump!

You sir need to pick up a book written by those that served over there.  Not just listening to the news that the left wing liberals spew.  Then tell me about the Intel that we 'don't' have or the useless missions that we do with our hands behind our backs.  He is hitting the nail on the head about our air strikes. Please do not only us all a favor, but yourself a favor by picking up a book.  

Do you have a book you would recommend?  Perhaps a novella by Sean Hannity?

Level zero heroes. But nice job immediately jumping to conclusions and douchebaggery. Typical liberal behavior. 

How about this book?  

Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

A "more balanced read". Yeah...I'm sure that is exactly what you read.

Somehing with no hidden agenda, kind of like the book I mentioned? As I said incoming attack of the liberals. Disagree with one and they come out in full force. Freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. 

Nobody's suggesting you don't have a right to an opinion.  Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism.

shtgunal3

Kamado Joe lump in the red bag is awesome!

HeavyG

shtgunal3 said:

Kamado Joe lump in the red bag is awesome!

No it's not!!

Oh sorry...wrong thread.

HeavyG

bhedges1987 said:

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

blasting said:

Willful ignorance would be  gutting the military,  and flying a few symbolic daily missions.  This is what I would call a total failure.  The evidence is the 100 dead and wounded from last night.   

I want to see 1000 missions a day hunting the animals.  Not 10-20 just to say we are doing something.

I think it's insulting to those that die, for our leaders to jump alll over gun control as the standard resonse.  To me, that qualifies as the willful ignorance of which you speak.  Hell, Obama still won't even utter the words islamic terrrorist.

So your contention is that the military is just launching air strikes for symbolic reasons, but somehow - still managing to take out ISIS leaders?  OK. 

A thousand missions a day is useless without specific targets and Intel.  But yeah, we should totally due that instead of acting like such wimps. 

Lol at "Islamic terrorist" - as though somehow saying that makes everything better.  

Gun control is hard, so let's focus on *realistic* goals like building giant walls, banning an entire faith and deporting 11 million people.  Vote for Trump!

You sir need to pick up a book written by those that served over there.  Not just listening to the news that the left wing liberals spew.  Then tell me about the Intel that we 'don't' have or the useless missions that we do with our hands behind our backs.  He is hitting the nail on the head about our air strikes. Please do not only us all a favor, but yourself a favor by picking up a book.  

Do you have a book you would recommend?  Perhaps a novella by Sean Hannity?

Level zero heroes. But nice job immediately jumping to conclusions and douchebaggery. Typical liberal behavior. 

How about this book?  

Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

A "more balanced read". Yeah...I'm sure that is exactly what you read.

Somehing with no hidden agenda, kind of like the book I mentioned? As I said incoming attack of the liberals. Disagree with one and they come out in full force. Freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. 

The book you mentioned?

I guess I missed the post where you mentioned a specific book.

bhedges1987

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

blasting said:

Willful ignorance would be  gutting the military,  and flying a few symbolic daily missions.  This is what I would call a total failure.  The evidence is the 100 dead and wounded from last night.   

I want to see 1000 missions a day hunting the animals.  Not 10-20 just to say we are doing something.

I think it's insulting to those that die, for our leaders to jump alll over gun control as the standard resonse.  To me, that qualifies as the willful ignorance of which you speak.  Hell, Obama still won't even utter the words islamic terrrorist.

So your contention is that the military is just launching air strikes for symbolic reasons, but somehow - still managing to take out ISIS leaders?  OK. 

A thousand missions a day is useless without specific targets and Intel.  But yeah, we should totally due that instead of acting like such wimps. 

Lol at "Islamic terrorist" - as though somehow saying that makes everything better.  

Gun control is hard, so let's focus on *realistic* goals like building giant walls, banning an entire faith and deporting 11 million people.  Vote for Trump!

You sir need to pick up a book written by those that served over there.  Not just listening to the news that the left wing liberals spew.  Then tell me about the Intel that we 'don't' have or the useless missions that we do with our hands behind our backs.  He is hitting the nail on the head about our air strikes. Please do not only us all a favor, but yourself a favor by picking up a book.  

Do you have a book you would recommend?  Perhaps a novella by Sean Hannity?

Level zero heroes. But nice job immediately jumping to conclusions and douchebaggery. Typical liberal behavior. 

How about this book?  

Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

A "more balanced read". Yeah...I'm sure that is exactly what you read.

Somehing with no hidden agenda, kind of like the book I mentioned? As I said incoming attack of the liberals. Disagree with one and they come out in full force. Freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. 

The book you mentioned?

I guess I missed the post where you mentioned a specific book.

You must have. Page two bro. 

lousubcap

I actually wrote an article to the editor of the local paper about dirt bags aka terrorists in early 2003 (just before the start of the Iraq war) where I offered "How do we know when we have won?"  in light of the fact that we had been fighting the war on drugs for several years and that finish-line was undefined., is this one any different?  
We as a country are accustomed to knowing what it takes to win.  Not so here and certainly not so going forward.  There are no easy answers.

theyolksonyou

What y'all don't know is that Obama has promised to clean @JohnInCarolina s minimax once out of office. You can't change his mind until Feb 2017. Then in sure he'll be more open minded on the egg forum. 

jabam

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

thetrim

A purge of radical mosques would be a good start.   I'd be happy to strap it on and execute this mission.  They're not even hiding anymore.   There's a big one in Boca right around the corner.  

Davec433

You have to have "Measures of Success" to define if we are winning or not or how far off we are. Elections, more populace involved eithe the government and general increase of security would be my big three.

We must confiscate 300 million guns but deporting 10-15 million illegal aliens is to hard every time it's said I laugh.

XC242

A purge?  Now we're talking. Go get em buddy. 

henapple

Bomb the middle east, turn it into a Walmart parking lot and have gays sell American flags.... Oh, serve pulled pork. 

JohnInCarolina

jabam said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

DMW

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

Something else that bothers me is that people think it's OK to drive slow in the passing lane on the highway.

theyolksonyou

DMW said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

Something else that bothers me is that people think it's OK to drive slow in the passing lane on the highway.

This. ****

JohnInCarolina

DMW said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

Something else that bothers me is that people think it's OK to drive slow in the passing lane on the highway.

Those people need to be hung by the truck nuts and dipped in a hot acid spring.

Davec433

JohnInCarolina said:

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

If you want to talk statistics your odds of getting killed by a gun is slim to none.

Talking prevention more gun control laws wouldn't have helped just take a look at San Bernadino. Beyond mass gun confiscations the only truly way to stop this from happening is to be armed yourself or depend on someone who is that hopefully is there when it happens.

We have family in Wisconsin who live in a small town and got the Allah Akbar phone call. The police responded immediately and caught Muslims cruising down the street looking for his house with guns with the intent to kill him and his family.

I got the same phone call here south of DC but it took the police 30 minutes to get to my house and I live 5 miles from their station. If I did depend solely on the police for protection myself and my family if it wasn't a prank call could be dead if I didn't exercise the 2nd Amendment.

You have to give people the right to self defense or stuff like Orlando happens.

dmchicago

Davec433 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

If you want to talk statistics your odds of getting killed by a gun is slim to none.

Talking prevention more gun control laws wouldn't have helped just take a look at San Bernadino. Beyond mass gun confiscations the only truly way to stop this from happening is to be armed yourself or depend on someone who is that hopefully is there when it happens.

We have family in Wisconsin who live in a small town and got the Allah Akbar phone call. The police responded immediately and caught Muslims cruising down the street looking for his house with guns with the intent to kill him and his family.

I got the same phone call here south of DC but it took the police 30 minutes to get to my house and I live 5 miles from their station. If I did depend solely on the police for protection myself and my family if it wasn't a prank call could be dead if I didn't exercise the 2nd Amendment.

You have to give people the right to self defense or stuff like Orlando happens.

Any way you can back any of that up?

Botch

bhedges1987 said:
Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

You have some very distinct opinions on a book that you admit you haven't even read.  I've served 26 years in the USAF and still serving as a civilian for them, am a registered republican, and held more Security clearances than you've probably heard of.  The above book is excellent and it would be worth your while to read it.
 
By the way, are you a Surveyor by profession?  

EGGjlmh

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

JohnInCarolina said:

jabam said:

@JohnInCarolina so what would you do? Just curious where you stand on all this. Not trying to antagonize, just wanting to hear your view. 

With respect to the shooter in Orlando?  I'm not sure there's a lot more that that could have been done by law enforcement. The guy was born here, acquired a firearm legally, and with an apparently overnight conversion - appears to have had little to no contact with terrorists overseas.  He was a "lone wolf."  There's a reason ISIS is encouraging those - because they're almost impossible to catch.

I was thinking overall, to help prevent something like this from happening again. 

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

Yes I agree with that.....Be capable of discussing this with an open mind....Look in the mirror sir.

Botch

Tonight CBS had a fairly long interview with the shooter's ex-wife, and from what she said it sounded like he had a pretty severe mental illness, and was a very disturbed homophobe, so this thing was maybe a combined case of hate crime/mental/radicalized by religion.
The part that bothers me is that he's worked for a US Government contractor, in Security, for many years and had even been interviewed on suspicions, twice (here, being a little less PC may be required).  His access to semi-auto weapons should have been more highly regulated.
The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, after all, requires it.  

HeavyG

bhedges1987 said:

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

HeavyG said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

bhedges1987 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

blasting said:

Willful ignorance would be  gutting the military,  and flying a few symbolic daily missions.  This is what I would call a total failure.  The evidence is the 100 dead and wounded from last night.   

I want to see 1000 missions a day hunting the animals.  Not 10-20 just to say we are doing something.

I think it's insulting to those that die, for our leaders to jump alll over gun control as the standard resonse.  To me, that qualifies as the willful ignorance of which you speak.  Hell, Obama still won't even utter the words islamic terrrorist.

So your contention is that the military is just launching air strikes for symbolic reasons, but somehow - still managing to take out ISIS leaders?  OK. 

A thousand missions a day is useless without specific targets and Intel.  But yeah, we should totally due that instead of acting like such wimps. 

Lol at "Islamic terrorist" - as though somehow saying that makes everything better.  

Gun control is hard, so let's focus on *realistic* goals like building giant walls, banning an entire faith and deporting 11 million people.  Vote for Trump!

You sir need to pick up a book written by those that served over there.  Not just listening to the news that the left wing liberals spew.  Then tell me about the Intel that we 'don't' have or the useless missions that we do with our hands behind our backs.  He is hitting the nail on the head about our air strikes. Please do not only us all a favor, but yourself a favor by picking up a book.  

Do you have a book you would recommend?  Perhaps a novella by Sean Hannity?

Level zero heroes. But nice job immediately jumping to conclusions and douchebaggery. Typical liberal behavior. 

How about this book?  

Haven't read it. I tend to enjoy a more balanced read. Not a one sided story to fit what I want to read which sounds exactly like something up your alley. Find something that will go with what you probably already think and have heard.... Sounds like a biased snooze fest sorry....

A "more balanced read". Yeah...I'm sure that is exactly what you read.

Somehing with no hidden agenda, kind of like the book I mentioned? As I said incoming attack of the liberals. Disagree with one and they come out in full force. Freedom of speech as long as you agree with them. 

The book you mentioned?

I guess I missed the post where you mentioned a specific book.

You must have. Page two bro. 

Ah...OK.

"Level Zero Heroes"?

The way you wrote that sentence "Level zero heroes" I didn't grok that as the title of a book. I just thought that was meant as snark directed at JIC.

Haven't read the book but did just read a bunch of reviews of it. Books like that have been written about every war in oh...the last couple hundred years. FUBAR has likely been a part of all warfare for thousands of years.

I'm not sure what that book highlights as being unique to our never-ending undeclared "Global War on Terrorism". Of course, since I haven't read it I also cannot say what "solutions" the author might proffer.

Fred19Flintstone

The old saw is certainly true:  When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.  

theyolksonyou

Sinking, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Davec433

dmchicago said:

Davec433 said:

JohnInCarolina said:

I don't think there are any easy answers.  What bothers me is that we're incapable as a society of discussing risks, statistics, and cost/benefits.

If you want to talk statistics your odds of getting killed by a gun is slim to none.

Talking prevention more gun control laws wouldn't have helped just take a look at San Bernadino. Beyond mass gun confiscations the only truly way to stop this from happening is to be armed yourself or depend on someone who is that hopefully is there when it happens.

We have family in Wisconsin who live in a small town and got the Allah Akbar phone call. The police responded immediately and caught Muslims cruising down the street looking for his house with guns with the intent to kill him and his family.

I got the same phone call here south of DC but it took the police 30 minutes to get to my house and I live 5 miles from their station. If I did depend solely on the police for protection myself and my family if it wasn't a prank call could be dead if I didn't exercise the 2nd Amendment.

You have to give people the right to self defense or stuff like Orlando happens.

Any way you can back any of that up?

Yeah I made it all up to score points on an online forum, my bad.

In my area with the OPM data breach they just go down the list prank calling Alkah Akbar people. When we were talking to the police the night it happened they said they literally get multiple phone calls a night. Whoever does it uses an app that's untraceable with the software the police have.

Believe me or not my point is if someone is attempting to kill you Id rather have the right to be armed then have to wait on someone who is to respond.

The night club was a gun free zone by state law. Nobody could protect themselves legally if they wanted to.