My first low & slow chicken

Darby_Crenshaw

SciAggie said:

Darby_Crenshaw said:

The temp you cook it at doesn't change whether you want it medium rare though, does it?

this stuff is so simple it is confusing. Because it seems to be counter to common advice. 

Cook. To. Temp. (Internal meat temp)

Ok. Now you're just making me realize I'm stupid. (It's the realization that's the issue) I think I need to go read a thread about lump or politics so I can feel like I know sumpthin'...

Now I know how my students feel at times. 

And no. You aren't stupid. 

It's just the internet, especially food forums, seem to create the idea that there is no need to understand what is happening as long as you follow someone's method. 

Like the dude who asked if it would be ok to cook something not raised direct because it seemed he was using more fuel going eaised direct for everything

my advice isn't to tell him when and with what food to go raised direct. But rather to ask, WHY do we to raised direct to begin with?

If we understand that, you never need to temember all the foods that should be done rasied direct versus direct. Instead, it'll be obvious

can i cook a turkey direct at 750?  Yes. Yes you can. But we know what would happen, and we don't want that. So we cook it indirect. 
and at a lower temp. 

This was all started by discussing that cooking a chicken at 350 doesn't mean we automatically are making pulled chicken, or need to let it go higher like we do with pulled pork. 

But the other way to look at it is this:  we can cook a turbo butt at 375 in a couple hours, but no one is calling it a pork roast. Those are 'roasting' temps historically though. So why isn't it a 'roast', what makes it pulled pork? Well, smoke, rub, and taking it up to 200 or so when the meat falls apart

you could cook a rib roast of beef next to it on the same grid. Take the roast off at 125 internal and test until 135. And in the same oven (BGE) you'd have made PP and a roast. 

It's all in what you cook it to, not at. 

SciAggie

@Darby_Crenshaw Yeah, I just meant this has helped me have an epiphany of sorts about cooking to IT. It's like the truth was sloshing around in my head somewhere but not fully realized. And the truth, once understood, seems so simple - and so obvious. 

That's the best part of this forum. There is a lot of BS and arguing at times, but there are also helpful folks with a wealth of knowledge that are willing to share what they know. 

I'll give this (cooking a chicken) another go next week when I have the opportunity. 

Darby_Crenshaw

for any chicken in the BGE, i would suggest air drying it in the fridge (uncovered) at least overnight.

you can also (not instead of, but in addition to air drying) rub the skin with some fat (olive oil, butter, veggie oil, etc.) to help it crisp.  i sometimes loosen under it and work herbed butter (or oil) both under and over the skin.

and just cook til it's wiggly in the thigh joint and drumstick.

sometimes the breast can be a little hotter than you want, but it will still be moist.  thighs and legs to the back, breast to the front

timing is tough.  sometimes we eat early, sometimes later.  but the bird can rest a half hour or more if she is big, so there's leeway

Foghorn

OK.  Now I have a question.

I've learned by reading (here and elsewhere) to cook chicken and turkey to a target temp of 160 for white meat and 180 for dark meat.  With some experience I've learned to that pulling off white meat (boneless breasts) at 150 seems to be even better and juicier.

However, I have never pulled chicken that was cooked on a grill - regardless of time or temp. 

My question is "If the goal is chicken that will fall or pull off the bone, is the target temp higher - like 190 or 200 or so (recognizing that temp may just be a rough estimate of "done")?

And if so, is the problem with the original post that the bird ended up in a "no man's land" between "moist and juicy" and "pullable"?

SciAggie

That's the gist. In fact, the legs were almost where I wanted them - I just got hungry and took the meat off too soon. I can't really speak to what the target temp will be - maybe @Darby_Crenshaw has a number he can throw out as a general guide. 
My plan is to cook the next one to the point I'm looking for and then I'll take the IT for future reference. 

THEBuckeye

I've cooked jerk chicken low and slow. About 2-2 1/2 hours at 275. Tender as can be. 

4 Hours seems like a long time to me. 

Darby_Crenshaw

i have learned one thing about chicken, in my house anyway....

fishless once remarked that he liked his chicken dark meat (thighs, drums, etc.) taken to 200+.   it sounded anathema to me.  but i never temped my chicken.  i just cooked it till it looked or felt done.  if i temped it, it was 150-160 in the breast, because i felt any more and it would dry out.  the breast was great, but the dark meat a little undercooked (chewy).

my wife DEFINITELY likes the legs and thighs to be firmer, more rendered.  so i started cooking to that level, and temped it once, and found it to be around 200-205.  the joints were wiggly too.  the breast? well, sometimes the breast was at 175.  yikes.  but here's the thing: still moist.   the BGE does a great job keeping it moist.  that's why the skin is often too chewy

now? i don't temp it.  i yank the thing off when the drum stick is wiggling in the joint.  we eat the whole thing, or most of it, in one sitting (two teenage boys and a fat bastard old man).  so even if the breast would be drier the next day when reheated, there's none left over anyway

i would probably braise chicken if i were taking it to pull temps (like 'pulled' pork).

Mattman3969

Just caught up on all this killer info. The only thing I can add is when I go 250 direct raised about 4" above felt it takes roughly 3 1/2 - 4hrs to get the breast to 160-170.  I also think that the mop sauce that hits the coals and steams is what gives me the open pit taste I've been chasing.   The meat is not fall off the bone but any LnS chicken is goin to have a different texture than a 350-400 direct cooked spatch.  My preference changes depending on what I'm goin for.   

Mattman3969

This is where I started and adjusted each cook

http://www.nibblemethis.com/2009/05/smoked-chicken.html?m=1

SmokingPiney

@SciAggie - all theoretical quantum physics aside, your chicken looks great! 

Hans61

Good cook! 

CtTOPGUN

 This discussion has me intending to do a couple spatched chickens with my ribs Sunday! Never would have thought I could get crisp skin at low temps.

   Jim

DMW

Foghorn said:

OK.  Now I have a question.

I've learned by reading (here and elsewhere) to cook chicken and turkey to a target temp of 160 for white meat and 180 for dark meat.  With some experience I've learned to that pulling off white meat (boneless breasts) at 150 seems to be even better and juicier.

However, I have never pulled chicken that was cooked on a grill - regardless of time or temp. 

My question is "If the goal is chicken that will fall or pull off the bone, is the target temp higher - like 190 or 200 or so (recognizing that temp may just be a rough estimate of "done")?

And if so, is the problem with the original post that the bird ended up in a "no man's land" between "moist and juicy" and "pullable"?

For pulled chicken, I use dark meat (usually just thighs) and overcook them to around 200*. It pulls/shreds just fine.

SciAggie

Mattman3969 said:

This is where I started and adjusted each cook

http://www.nibblemethis.com/2009/05/smoked-chicken.html?m=1

Thanks Matt. 

DoubleRay415

@Darby_Crenshaw dropping some knowledge, thanks for the advanced class.  I wish I was at home behind the grill instead of at this computer, what a great thread. 

BrueggeDad

That looks good to me!

Zmokin

I've tried low & slow chicken and have discovered I prefer it hot & fast if Queing it.  boneless skinless thighs in a crockpot is the only way I cook chicken slow anymore.

SciAggie

@Darby_Crenshaw I cooked another chicken today using your recipe. I got it on about 12:30 PM cooking at 250. By 6:30 the legs were jiggly in their sockets so I took it off. Rested it about 20 minutes while I finished the sides. It was spectacular. My wife said it was the best chicken I've done yet with regard to tenderness and texture. No pics because we devoured it. Thanks for the help. 

Darby_Crenshaw

Hahah thanks. Not my recipe though! Just another way to do chicken. 

How was the skin? Did you dry it? Get it crispy

Mattman3969

That is awesome Aggie! Sometimes is hard to find the time but the effort is very worth it. You agree?

SciAggie

@Darby_Crenshaw Oh yeah, the skin was crispy and the meat was tender and moist. I never took the temp - just waited for tenderness. @Mattman3969 This one was worth the effort; I'll do it again. To the point, that's why I enjoy my egg - It wasn't any effort. I was working at home and just checked the egg every 45minutes or so. Every time the temp was steady. I also went easy on the smoke wood. I added a couple of pieces of cherry and didn't smoke too much. It came out well. 

Theophan

I don't want to embarrass @Darby_Crenshaw, but I will add to the chorus, here:  Once in a while some concept hasn't quite gelled in my head -- the information is all in there but it hasn't "clicked," yet, and your discussion in this thread about "low and slow" vs. higher dome temp having almost nothing to do with anything, and that it's mostly the internal temp (whether measured or not) that determines whether it's properly cooked as a roast or properly cooked to be pulled, etc., helped the light bulb go on for me.  I felt sorta like slapping my forehead and saying, "I coulda had a V8" (an old ad on TV in case you don't get the reference), because I felt like I knew all of that, but somehow it hadn't come together.  Now it has!  Thanks!

SciAggie

@Theophan Those are my sentiments exactly. 

Darby_Crenshaw

Glad it worked out. 

And yes, six hours sounds like a lot of work, but it is just like you said. There is no tending or checking. You just put it on and go about the day. 

Have a drink, make some sides, and hang with guests. And oh yeah the chicken is probably close to done, maybe we should check it

cheeaa

I gotta tell u that u guys are crazy... lol... i guess i cant talk too much isht since I haven't tried it, but man 6 hour chicken seems nuts. I'm a raised direct around 300 or 325 kind of guy. Done in an hour and glorious. But things like this r what makes the world go round. 

Darby_Crenshaw

Lots of people getting rubbery skin that way. 

anyway, the cook is no easier in an hour. We still only lift the lid twice

fishlessman

my everything wrong approach with turkey, someone should try it with a chicken

https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1142418/low-and-slow-turkey

Darby_Crenshaw

Fish, lotsa folks need a step by step. Easier than their having to think and try different things

fishlessman

Darby_Crenshaw said:

Fish, lotsa folks need a step by step. Easier than their having to think and try different things

ok, stepbystep

1.     set egg at 215 dome
2.     add bird raised grid direct or indirect
3.     go fish for 8 to 12 to 15 hours, does not matter
4.     come back tired and drunk, raise temps to 325 and finish cook
5.     eat

done this maybe 200 times, never fails. low and slow makes a great chicken salad, anything else you do is just cause you want to. i prefer a higher temp for a special meal but do low and slows cause it fits my schedule and they are non fail

Darby_Crenshaw

Exactly. 

Now expect twenty replies telling you why it doesn't work.